I've come to a weird mental block in putting all this together, and I would like some advice from some fellow members.

A lot of girl-friends have told me I am very attractive guy, with gorgeous eyes. As a result, they have all told me, in the beginning they were very intimidated by me, and found it very hard to look at me in my eyes when they would talk to me. In return, I always made the assumption that this was an IOD.

On top of this, they think I give off too much of a player vibe, and as a result when I talk to women, they always have ALL their defenses up. Me, being the lazy person I am, tends to give up as a result.


Their have been so many situations that have passed by blind eyes, that I need to find a way to bring this into my reality, rather then keeping it on my blind spot.

Any advice is always well appreciated.

I too deal with this sometimes. In my opinion, this simply means you should be hitting on hotter chicks. Sounds like you have no time for 8's and below. If you're forced into a situation where there only is a bunch of 8's around and you just wanna get laid, lower the player vibe. Adjust your style to come off as the nice generous guy, that is somewhat aloof to what's going on (much like Adrian Grenier does sometimes in Entourage).

Hey man! You just denied being attractive in that other thread!

Anyways, I seem to recall somebody saying that being attractive can indeed be annoying. You are supposed to like "be born" with the perfect game to match the perfect game.

Also if you are too cocky when you are in fact too good makes you look like a jerk. You dont get away with things others do. Like your college tells you that you suck doesnt take as much as when your boss does. Get the difference.

With great power comes great... batteries?

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I'm not trying to be a dick Ezo, but you're being a Pick Up Snob in my opinion.

bbardot: you just reminded me about porn

Dude dont trick yourself. I dont want to be mean but girls are kinda different then men in rating a look.

For example if you ask 10 guys to rate a women which is HB9... most of them will say shes HB9 and maybe one or two will say HB10 or HB8....


But if you ask 10 women to rate a men... rates will be very various ... like from 6 to 10 ... Just for example. Some girl will say yak, some will say "he is handsome"...

In the same boat: their defenses get thrown up real quick. They often dismiss me as some playa type (which I suppose is true). And agreed, hotter chicks defiantly respond less hesitantly, but their not always easy to come by and sometimes those 7's are the cooler ones.

I've dropped some "wounded man" bs to defuse the playa persona in their eyes, but that can backfire pretty easy too. Even tried a "I'm trying celibacy" line before, but this ones harder to sell.

Funny, I've been told I look too intense and sometimes angry, sometimes like I'm ready to explode and I'm not at all - just going through my day.

Intense eyes freak people out. You need to laugh and smile more - a sincere laugh and smile will make the corners of your eyes crinkle up, look less intense. When I started doing that the comments stopped and I found that people wanted to be around me not avoid me.

i agree that changing your vibe is definitely a really important idea. however, i know this is not necessarily easy.

for instance, i have some vibe issues. evidently i had a crappy tonality in my voice (fluctuated weirdly), but of course nobody ever mentioned this to me, and honestly, i couldn't hear it at all (until i practiced). idk if it's right though, because while i have identified problems, i don't know what to change them to (as i rant, it occurs to me to ask a question about this).
i have this suspicion i give off other social turn-off vibes, but for the life of me i can't tell what they are!!!

my best advice to you is what i'm working on. ask other people about it and try to alter/remove it from there. their perceptions are more reliable than your own lots of times.

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>>> ascend to the next level

~Luminova~

...and if you would have been less attractive then they would be disgusted
...and if you were a "nice guy" then all of their defenses would still go up

point is
women don't know what they want themselves, they would always say something like that, learn to make the best out of anything... being attractive cannot be something that works against you...

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"StreetLight!! Stop seeing every problem in life like it's a chick you didn't hit on!"

its a fact: better looking= NOT a disability

but maybe when your better looking your game isnt that good... since girls also approach you and you dont need to do many attraction rotuines?!

Ok...so after some serious thought about this, I realized what the problem is. I enjoy thinking alot, and as a result I always have a philosophers face( ) the pondering look lol..

People told me that I seem always occupied and I don't look to open to talking too. Which is funny, but now I realize that I tend to go into deep stages of thought, even when i'm at the club(i dont drink).

Even though I smile a lot, i am going to try and smile even more, and have the thought of "i'm available to talk to".

ill see what happens

wow.. great thread!! ok, im a relatively good looking guy.. wouldnt say i was the best but i get a lot of attention.. so heres my thoughts...

good side of being attractive:
1) special SPAM (not to the level women receive) but you will get treated better by secretaries, receptionists, people in line/ bus, etc. sometimes even allowed to break the rules a little in certain circumstances

2) social status - men want to be around you if they think you can bring more women. more women will talk to you in general, elevating status

3) first dibs - although physical attractiveness is not as important to women as it is to men, it does matter. in the very beginning, before you show any personality, if she finds you more attractive than another man, she will give you first shot (which means about 5 minutes to show you have the personality behind it)

4) opportunity and ONS - this is kind of the same thing.. physical attractiveness is not as important to a woman but it matters. if youre not even close to good looking enough for her you may never get a shot.. and for a ONS, if shes drunk she may not even notice your personality (or not care if sober) and you may still get the ONS on looks alone... so you do get more opportunities with women as a result, and more chances as ONS.. even if she doesnt like your personality, she may just want a ONS..

drawbacks:

1) self improvement challenges - makes it much more difficult to truly improve this aspect of your life because it is difficult to determine what is affecting the situation (looks or personality). also, you may be doing a lot of things wrong in the beginning and really f**king it up for yourself later but you may not notice because she still seems interested (looks carrying you for a bit)
worse, she may start dating you because of the physical attraction alone and if you start to really like her she will leave because she doesnt really like you that way.. makes it hard to figure out whay a girl is really with you and sets you up to get hurt.. (same problem rich guys and really hot women have)

2) suspicion - women are more wary of good looking men because they immediately sense you can create a reaction in them (and could potentially hurt them).. this causes several things
-- why is he after me? if she doesnt think she is good enough for you, she will ask why you are chasing her, and usually come up with 2 things: 1) you just want her for sex 2) theres something wrong with you and you cant get better women..
these are both very bad and can be overcome with good awareness but are tough to deal with..
unfortunately, she never seems to think.. hey! he sees what a great special girl i am.. lol

3) intimidation - women get intimidated by good looking men same way men get intimidated by good looking women. if she doesnt think she is good enough for you, she will assume she cannot hold you, and will therefore disqualify herself, or protect herself by keeping her distance so she cannot get involved herself... its kindof like trying to get a job for 40k when youre worth 80k in the market.. the people investing in hiring you figure you will leave as soon as a 80k offer comes along..

4) limitations on available women / opportunities to learn - if the less attractive women disqualify themselves, that limits the women who are still available.. unfortunately, the ones left are usually the most attractive, hard to get women
which sounds great until you realize they have been hit on by thousands of men, have a lot of competition for their time and attention and can *very* quickly weed men out, usually before you even realize you did anything wrong or have a chance to learn anythin from the interaction.. and at the clubs, the women who usually do the ONSs are the 5s 6s 7s and maybe 8s, but not the 10s.. they have a couple FBs they can call. so although having the most attractive women as your market, getting zero 10's is far worse than getting 2 7s... and not learning is death to your game and future..

5) expectations - if you are good looking, women expect you to be good and experienced with women.. this causes a whole bunch of things
-- if you were a late bloomer, and do not have that experience, the lack of congruence will set off massive alarms in her head.. *especially* with the 9s and 10s as before
-- women (and people ingeneral) expect you to be perfect and have no problems if you are good looking.. its wierd, but its really how it is.. so if you do have issues its hard to find a sympathetic ear, and on a worse note, women wonder what value they can really bring to your life if you are "perfect".. someone said once, " we fall in love with flaws " and its true... makes women less likely to imaging being close with you which is tough if youre looking for LTR (note: this is the same problem a lot of very attractive women have, just a little more intense)

oh.. couple more things i forgot...

-- confusing physical attraction with actual attraction.. the reactions of a women who thinks you are physically attractive are pronounced and can be very obvious.. but women generally need more.. im just starting to realize now that the reason i have been having trouble is i have been mistaking that physical attraction response for the real thing and trying to move to the next level before i got a real attraction developed..

-- distracting signals.. many times women who are attached or in relationships still want to flirt and feel beautiful.. and they would rather be flirted with by attractive men.. so although flirting can be very fun, it can be a huge time waster if its with a lot of attached women with no real intentions.. worse if they really play the pretend to be single game to get you to flirt ( i get that * a lot* - gotten to where i ask about bf's in the first 2 sentences). or sometimes they give off attractions signals unconsciously even if they are not trying to feed their ego, which can cause you to think you saw an IOI when you didnt.. (i have gotten good at gracefully leaving attached women i thought i was being invited to approach quickly but with her feeling very good from the interaction.. )

samex: I read both of your posts and was like "whoa" Keaneau Reeves style... do you have a long-lost twin, by chance? Anyway, what has worked for me is to stay present in your immediate environment and your immediate actions. Try not to think about something while you're doing something else. It's tough, but it's a good habit not just for pick-up, but for life. Mindfulness is a great tool. Look up Eckhart Tolle, Chogyam Trungpa, Thich Naht Hanh, Jon Kabat-Zinn

Also, as simple as it sounds, just talk to girls. You're the selector... which means that you've got to take responsibility for making your selections. You've got to make things happen, whether it's just chatting a girl up for nothing more or making an SOI. A lot of girls are shy and/or intimidated by high value guys. Just be yourself and demonstrate that you're a genuinely good, desirable, selective, overall cool guy

You're in control of more than you think, you just have to realize it
LOL yeah, maybe they do... but the girls that like 'em LOVE 'em. Not to threadjack, but I'd like to understand more about what makes a persons eyes look "intense" ...and if it has to do with facial expressions as much as just the eyes

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Live Your Truth.

What has been said here is sooo true for men. I think I've come to realize that being very good looking (9-10) for both men and women is bad for them. It isn't that gratifying for men to be good looking and while it is for women, beauty is only temporary and what are they gonna do when they get older and haven't developped their personnality as much as other women ?

you know, ive had this problem too OP, especially when ive gone on dates with 7s and 8s, they get really shy, and try too hard to impress me, more than anything it annoyed the hell out of me because, it made the situation too... stiff, too, uncomfortable, i found the best way to get around this is to, be very open about your personality, very honest, and try to have fun, eventually the girls will open up

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"Be the change you wanna see in the world" -Gandhi