I have been training for around 2 years, 1 big break due to injury. First year diet was bad, was in not a great deal of protein, saw minimal muscle gain etc. Now I upped my protein significantly, I have seen good and noticeable gains.

= Protein is crucial for a good healthy body and building.

Glad other people agree. RVAIS has been posting this bullshit for months now and very few people call him out on it. I'm very interested to hear his stats too. I'm 6'2" and 220lbs. I seriously doubt I could've got this size in the amount of time I did it following RVAIS training and diet routines.

Headshrinker do yourself a favor and listen to what enforcer and the other that agree with him are saying. Also, I shoot for 1.5 g of protein per lb. Enforcer's estimate is on the conservative side.

Wow after I thanked the enforcer for being adult I have two fuckin trolls coming out from under their bridges to try to start a flame war with me, not gonna happen I posted enough and Im not gonna keep reposting the same shit to try to convince you fuckin experts. But I ask you guys please by all means try to convice me show me your so called evidence please make it from impartial sources too not some shit fitness rag you picked up at the grocery store where more than half the fuckin pages are advertisements for useless supplements that are unregulated and unnecessary.


MASSIVE MUSCLE HAS BEEN BUILT FOR CENTURIES WITHOUT SUPPLEMENTS OR SUPER HIGH PROTEIN DIETS


PLEASE CONVINCE ME SHOW ME YOUR EVIDENCE

Seriously, you need evidence? How about the 99.9% of natural and drugged bodybuilders who have built 'massive muscle' for YEARS and YEARS on commonplace protocols of high protein, workout volume and split training. Simply because you can show 1 or 2 genetic freaks (i.e. Mike Mentzer) who are in no way representative of the average population DOES NOT help your argument, but rather hurts it.

And what do you define as 'massive' muscle? As for your douche example of the vegan 'bodybuilder', I would guess that I have nearly as much lbm as him at the ripe old age of 22. He is NOT extremely developed and you can easily go into any one of a number of powerlifting/bodybuilding gyms across the nation and find 10 guys who are more developed.

Also, way to completely ignore the ?s about your stats and the posting of pictures...

Well i dont have a camera but this is a great excuse get as they are great in the field.

My stats Im 5'11 225lbs currently I was 285lbs as of june 09 I just read my body fat % mind you from calipers which are probably wrong at 18.7%. My goal is to be under 200 by end of Summer if not earlier and eventually at around 190 to 185lbs and sharp as scalple.

I train once every 2 - 3 weeks no more than 4 body parts per session. Ive used static isometric training as well as max contraction training, currently however Im on a mission to do a 1,000 lbs partial range deadlift as was seen att the end of one of the max contraction training videos I posted a link to on this fourm, I am at 650lbs currently Ive also done 1350 lbs (4 full bars of 45lbs plates 30 of them) full range angled leg presses for slow negative assited positive about 3 reps around a 53 seconds long. If you dont understand any of this look at my other post for explanation.

kman you probably want to look like the guy on the far right dont you

http://www.happyasianguy.com/wordpress/ ... le-man.jpg

you wont but if you look anything like thast youll get no pussy you will show that your trying to make up for lack of size some where else, youve taken up enough of my time now!

Hobbit, I wrote out a large and thought out response, but it got lost, lol. So depressing. I'll get back to it.

EDIT: While I appreciate your response as it provides scientific studies other than youtube videos, I must say that I am neither convinced nor moved.\

In your first quote, the idea of high protein diets leading to dehydration is nothing new, but that proves nothing in terms of building muscle or bodybuilding. Also, most of the general population is dehydrated NOT due to high protein diets, but rather their own negligence from not drinking enough water. This is not strong evidence against high protein diets and honestly, I think a much bigger problem of dehydration comes from the high sodium to potassium ratio in a normal Western diet. This quote pretty much said 'drink more water and you should be fine', which is what EVERYONE should be doing anyways.

The second quote is essentially not note worthy. NO ONE stated that a high protein diet should be lacking in the area of fruits and veggies. I make it a point to have at least one piece of fruit or several servings of veggies at every meal. This is just common sense and those who do not do this, whether on a high protein diet or not, are simply asking for trouble.

The third quote is useless and simply provides heresey for your argument.

The fourth quote is by far the most ridiculous of the bunch. Simply look at the subjects of the study, GERIATRICS. This is in no way indicative of a young, growing male, with peak testosterone levels, who is looking to put on muscle. The elderly are NOT doing strenuous weight lifting and at best are simply looking to preserve the muscle that they have, not build more.

Also, it is obnoxious when this PhD/RD writes about only having 60 grams of protein per day and how people are on 1,800 cal/day diets. Most of these nutritional PhDs/RDs have never dealt with the young male population who is looking to pack on muscle in the most efficient manner possible. 1,800 calories per day? Is this broad crazy? When I am basically maintaining my weight I eat approximately 3,100-3,200 kcal/day. Any less than that and I begin to lose weight! At least the first quote provided a somewhat reasonable number of 2g of protein per kg of body weight. I still think this is a bit conservative, as I would recommend 1.25g/lb a day.

Yes, I understand the fact that people who are scarfing down 450g of protein per day are essentially wasting it and it is doing no good, but that is NOT recommended by me or anyone else. Regardless, significant protein intake is KEY to building lean body mass and maintaining/gaining strength.

Also, let me note that these studies seem to be looking at high protein diets at the EXPENSE of carbohydrates. While I think this is a good SHORT TERM weight loss program when in a cutting phase, this is NOT a good long term plan to nutrition. Let me say that I believe carbohydrates are essential to building mass, having favorable insulin respones and replacing muscle glycogen, but carbohydrates should be eaten mostly in the morning and around a workout. This still does not exclude the fact that enough protein must ALSO be in a diet in order to see maximal gains.

From the end of your response where you essentially act like you are 10, I can tell you are completely FOS.

First off, who the hell does not have a camera nowadays? I mean seriously? lol, there are webcams and digital cams everywhere, but apparently you are like one of the last people under 40 to have ZERO access to one. Convenient I must say.

Next, I looked up that isometric training BS and I must say that its the most retarded thing I have ever seen. You are developing zero real muscle/strength from that and there is no doubt that any regular free weights would absolutely CRUSH you. Oh, and as for your leg press...a range equal to a quarter of an inch DOES NOT COUNT. That old idiot who host the 700 club put up a video of him leg pressing like 2000lbs or something. One look at that video and any real lifter knows that the guy is essentially delusional. He moved his legs like half an inch...WHICH DOES NOTHING FOR YOU. How about you actually start squating to parallel and let me know when you get pinned under 135lbs.

Oh, and for the record, I'm 6'0, 204 and currently still on a cut down from 225 and I'm sure my body outshine yours by a mile. My 1RMs are...

Bench: 325 lbs
Squat: 405 lbs
Deadlift: 465 lbs

No, I'm not on the 'ZOMG steroids' and yes, I eat a lot, lift a lot, get enough sleep and get a lot of protein. Also, I promise you that I get a lot of attention from women and they really dont mind the muscle...shocker. But honestly, I'm not an idiot who does this to get women, I lift and get bigger bc I LIKE TO.

Now please stop trolling around this forum with your nonsensical ideas because there is already enough bad information out there. At least if you had a decent physique and built it in the manner you speak of then you would have some say, but alas I am sure you do not.

I like your style man and agree with you. Good lifting too. Solid deadlift you have!

I dead-lift 378 pounds, for a guy weighing 180 pounds I guess it isn't to bad. Always aiming higher!

Thank you hobbit but, your just not gonna get anywhere with these fuckin guys!

They sound like the guys that read the muscle mags and see all the bullshit thats out there yes you MIGHT (but unlikely) get "fit" and somewhat muscular (although not as much as a steroid taking bodybuilder/ athlete) eating tremendous amounts of protein and training 8 days a week (if your genetics are right) but did you get those gain "because of" or "inspite of" your overtraining and poor diet "ohh no its been 4 hours havent had protein ahhh Im melting, Im melting "

And I like how they still haven't been able to give 1 solid example just talk shit.

Where are you guys examples please I still need convincing I have posted shit all over this forum on studies that support my beliefs as well as videos from other that Ive gained a great deal of knowledge it hepled me see the light.

The difference is that the people I listened too have no intrest in seeing me fail at my task, the people kman listens to do so they can sell another magazine or some shitty shake made from whey its basically industrial waste from the chesse making process look it up, its dirt fuckin cheap for them low overhead its all about the dollars.

And please I still need convincing so if you can produce those links I really want to see them kman. Thanks