Hey
at first I didnt know what to do online, so I joined this site, and thanks to this forum, I it refreshed my memory on alot of things I read in the books

so Negging, I have been negging the girls on facebook and myspace, and it has been working, almost too well, its amazing, because before I was being nice and getting nowhere fast

I also watched the movie "The Spread" and learned a few tips from that, which I found out about from this forum, like negging her, then apologizing right after so she feels I am a compassionate jerk

so I find a girl I like and send her a message
but first I look at her pictures and think of something I can say to insult her indirectly
some wise ass shit, showing I dont give a fuck all together

and they are responding, some seem to even like it, or they act like they arent bothered all together
all in all it seems to spark their interest to respond as opposed to ignore

then I say I am sorry I didnt mean anything badly when they react excited about my outlandish comments, and they have mostly responded back telling me, dont worry its ok

so now that I have these girls interested
here is where I have some questions

how often should I neg them?

One girl I negged over and over got mad at me, by the 5th time
so I am thinking maybe I went over board
I was able to smooth it out with more apologies, so thats cool that saying sorry works even after negging too much

I was thinking I need to keep negging them to keep their interest, to keep them on their toes, but is that wrong?
do I stop the second they are being cool?
will they remain cool from that point on?
thats the stage I am at

since it is online, its hard to know how far I would get with them in person
but I assume I could get with all of them after a few negs
but since its online and I will have to talk with them maybe for months before meeting them, cuz some of them live far away places
will I lose interest if I am nice once they are interested
I hope this makes sense

Let me know your thoughts everyone
I would appreciate all insight
I feel I can be a champion PUA real fast
Thanks
MB

I've made it a rule for myself that I only 'neg' a girl when she is being uncooperative. If she wants to chat (nearly always a sign that you will never meet in real life) then she get's a neg. The same if she doesn't show signs of wanting to meet in any other way. Neg the timewasters then move on!

why have you made it a rule to only neg when she is uncooperative?
because you are a nice guy and find it wrong to neg?
or because that is a strategy? if so please explain

i was under the impression from the books I have read that when stepping to a 10 HB you should neg her from the start to break her down to size, so she doesnt have a chance to be uncooperative

i found that the negging from the start is getting them to respond, before the 10 HB's were not even answering me

I'm confused by your statement
if she shows interest and wants to chat with you, that is bad? that means she wont meet you in person? i dont get that
i have met alot of women online that i spoke with through aim or msn
but im trying to elevate my game to getting the 10 HB's now, so that is my focus
but I dont see how that comment makes sense
so please explain

i agree if she doesnt want to meet then she should get negged, that makes sense totally

why would i neg a timewaster then move on?
isnt the point to neg them to make then not timewasters anymore?
isnt the whole point to get them interested through the negs
not walk away giving them an insult, but to accomplish an actual goal of getting them?
you are def. confusing me, and thats cool, this is all up for discussion
i hope some others join in
thanks for your reply

There is a reason why nice guys finish last.
Personally I never apologize when I neg a girl online or in real life.
You never want to insult a girl.
I say neg as you see fit.
You do not need to keep on negging a girl online to keep their interest, it can in many ways be counter productive. You need to learn when to neg and how much to neg. As you seen you can over do it.
First off why are you talking to girls miles away from you? You live in a very populated area. Secondly if it takes you more than 10 messages before you meet the girl in person you then need to work on your skills. As you should be able to get a girl to meet you in person in no more than 5 messages.

Hi Master Baiter,

my experience online has lead me to adopt that rule. When I've negged in the past it's rarely led anywhere, starting well and then fizzling out quite quick. I don't find it wrong to neg - just ineffective.

Regarding chat - again this is down to my experience, after spending a few hours chatting and it leading absolutely nowhere I don't do it anymore. It's so unproductive and if you stay online too long just seems to signify/imply that your time isn't valuable. I've taken girls chat addreeses in the past but have madde NO attempt to chat, because I don't want to - I've invariably said later that I'm busy and rarely get the time to chat and suggest moving it offline. I think chatting just shows an interest in chatting online and invariably they are the type which are very hard to persuade to shift things offline. IMHO chat attracts the type who want to be just cyber-friends. If you've had success then great. My mantra is Do what works...for you.

So why do I neg when they are uncooperative? It's my attempt to steer things to what I want - a meeting in real life. If they are still uncooperative then I let them go. Also it sends them a signal that their behaviour is a bit shit, Why are they on dating sites if they don't want to meet people?. Some women are deliberately fucking men around - they get some sort of kick out of it. Sometimes the neg works and the girl/woman replies and is apologetic and things get back on track.

To be frank I'm not even doing 'negs' nowadays I just call them out straight on their crap - fuck it if they are offended! They are NOT little girls, they're adults.

Here's an example which I sent to a woman after suggesting meeting 3 times (I went past my normal guidelines/rules)

"Hi *****,

I'm detecting a pattern of - I suggest a meet - you say you cannot - etc etc. I think you've a lack of interest in meeting or maybe I'm wrong. Ok, good luck in your search"

and her reply

"suit urself .. if u prefer to presume than ask .. it's just i'm not available on a 24 hrs call .. i have a busy job, a daughter, a household and other hobbies, friends and commitments .. good luck to u too .. "

Notice the excuse making she did and she never once offered an alternative in any other mails or this one - unfortunately a surefire sign she will NEVER meet.


Here's a bit from an email newsletter thing from Scott Mackay regarding honesty

"Either way, it comes down to something other than a desire to be
blatantly deceitful.

I believe all this "smoke blowing" is rooted in nothing other than
sheer cowardice. People just don't have the guts to tell other
people the truth.

So they lie.

My stand on the matter is that we're all adults around here and
tactful positioning of the TRUTH is always more productive for
everyone involved in the dating world than laying false hope on
someone.

Never mind that whoever is subject to such mental gymnastics would
have to be naïve and/or flat-out obsessed to believe any of it.
That's beside the point.

Yet, many of us are serving up more "whoppers" than Burger King
when it comes to dealing with people who are interested in us.

Stop that. Be honest with people.

And be honest with YOURSELF when you are hearing any of the lines
above. What we often consider "tried and true" lines to feed one
another are actually "tired and FALSE". Deserve what you want.


Be Good,

Scot McKay"

Interesting stuff - I think women are more prone to use BS as they "do not want to hurt your feelings" and they never quite understand that men CAN take the truth if delivered clearly and humanely

let me ask you, when you are being this guy that is not nice, do you ever worry it will get you into a fight? not that I am scared, but I dont want to get arrested as I have a criminal record, and it seems everytime I am not nice, a girl gets mad at me, then threatens to get her boyfriend, or screams for some guy close by
next thing you know I am in a fight
How do I avoid getting into fights with guys when being that "NOT SO NICE GUY" to girls?
Are you saying if she gets mad, or shows some slight anger, its better to not apologize? does it add value not apologizing? am I decreasing my value by saying sorry?
In the movie "Spread" Ashton's Character says, never be a nice guy, but then be quick to apologize real fast, that shows you are a compassionate jerk, and they like that
I thought a neg was an insult, no? just not a direct one, an indirect one?
how do you neg without it being some sort of a put down?
you have me confused with that?
also where online can I find a long list of negs that sound actually real?
i find that I must make up my own ones specific to each female
I travel alot on business, and have actually met girls from online in many different areas and scored, that is the main reason I am open to connecting with a girl anywhere, I travel so much for my work that I can end up being in their area, and what better than having contact with a girl allready the second I step off the plane?
does this make sense?

do you feel I should put more focus on scoring in my neighborhood? I find that I always have work to do when home, and it feels like I am slacking if I go out, but when I travel for work it puts me out into the world, and being in a hotel away from home, has me more in the game
I am not happy about that to be honest
any advice for what I can do at home?
it feels like the girls in my area are too difficult
anyone here have difficulty with NYC women?
I find LA women are more easy to deal with
Do you do this in person? or only online? I know this is talk about online, just curious if you are calling them out on their shit also in person or would that require a different attitude?
meaning, are you not concerned about getting into a fight with someone she is friends with, after u call her out on her shit?
I find whenever I am rude with a female who is being rude with me, it leads to a fist fight with someone, and I am trying to avoid charges currently

I understand everything u said now Skypirate
and if the girl is being rude like u showed me, then def forget her
that is not cool, i am with you
I might have responded back with a neg though like, something like this

"Do you procrastinate with your kid too? when he wants to go play ball do you have time for him?" or something retarded to show her I am a jerk, but get her interested
I think online you need to just stand out, and being a jerk does that it seems

Yeah I understand about being honest
I tell the 6's that want me, I am not interested in you, you are not my type
but another question

when a girl wants you, a 6 lets say, should you tell her you are not interested? or become friends with her so she can help wing you women that are 10's?
I noticed alot of them say they are down to be friends and help you wing
but its really just so they can talk to you more and hope they can get you
once they see they cant get you, they drop you like nothing
all that talk of they will help you seems to be bullshit
do you agree?

Thanks everyone
keep the responses coming
this is getting good![/quote]

Hi MB,

Yes I do the call on uncooperative behaviour when online. I should do more calling out on shit behaviour in real life face to face. I have a long history of sappy neediness and now at a stage where I put up with less (I used to wait for ages on dates - no more 5 minutes and then I start to head off) If they do not call within another 10 minutes the meet/date is cancelled. To be honest I've never felt any really rude behaviour during a meet or a date so have had no need to call them on it. I have called out girls when a meet/date finishes and they say they're interested in meeting again 'sometime'. I have said let's fix a date now and they backtrack sooo fast and give some lame excuse why they cannot arrange anything - all done apparently to protect my feelings as like I said I'm going to just go to pieces if she says she's NOT interested! If you're in an evil mood and you have just met someone who you can tell is NOT interested it's kind of fun to make them squirm a bit trying to squeeze out the truth from them. You can get them to become dancing monkeys with mutliple contradictory lies. I rarely challenge them on anything nowadays as it just makes me frustrated - it doesn't change their opinion or view on you so it's a bit pointless. Sometimes the TRUTH is wasted on some people.

I'm very fond of the Mode One style as that seems to help me focus on connecting with the women that ARE interested in meeting/dating/sex and spotting and avoiding the timewasters asap. Spotting timewasters is possibly THE best skill a PUA can develop - sadly very few people talk about this as if EVERY girl is always ready to be seduced.

The thing about negs, teases or insults (there's a fine subjective line between them all) is that if the girl does get offended and you apologize it shows that you backtrack too quickly , that your initial opinion was fake and you cannot be trusted. I think girls prefer a honest bastard type to a backtracking nice guy.

I would only apologise if I caused some physical harm by accident or really overstepped the mark emotionally. I think deep down you know when it's right to apologise.

Negs imho are like backhanded compliments - there's a bit of a compliment and a bit of a criticism in them.

As for getting into fights - this is where being AFC can help as AFC's rarely do anything dangerous. It's wisest to walk away from fights.

You can be a nice guy and still be a dick, you just need to know how to be cocky and funny. As far as avoiding getting a girl mad enough to call her boyfriend or some other guy to attack you, you need to learn how to read the girl's body language. As she will "tell" you when she is getting to that point. Besides if you are getting a girl that pissed off you are doing something wrong.
I am not saying you should never apologize as there are times when you should. The only times I apologize for a neg is when I over step a line, which I have a couple of times. But most of the time I don't over step that line.
I describe negs as more like you are teasing a girl. An example neg is "You hit like a girl". I don't know any list of negs online for you, but there are multiple posts here covering negs tho. But you should create your own negs for each specific girl, as that is far better than using canned material.
I see. That does make sense
I say focus on both, as that means more girls to go after. You find girls in LA easier to pick up because you come from a totally different city/cultural and that very much works in your favor. Hell i would have a tad bit easier time pick up girls in LA as the cultural here in OC is different enough from LA. As far as being at home its sounds like you allow your self to be prisoner of your own work. You should work on going out every day when you are at home, even if its only for 30 minutes for lunch. As you need to learn to how to free your self from your work when you are home. As long as you manage your time with your work you will find you will be able to get out even with a heavy work load.

I guess I get disgusted and nervous when a girl doesnt respond well

for instance, I was in the gym, and I was following the newbie task to say hello to every women with a smile
so this ugly face nasty girl with an amazing ass, walked in, not a girl i would normally talk to, because her face was hideous
and i said hello with a smile, because its part of the newbie excercize

and she ignored me, acted like she didnt hear me with her rotten face
that kind bothered me, i felt weak
for even talking to her, and i am not happy about that, i wish i didnt give a shit
i would think she might her self have such low self esteem from her botched face that she couldnt handle the niceness so early in the morning
but i would never do that
ignore someone saying hello?
maybe i do and dont realize it

I guess I am just nervous that once the girl rejects me and I try to keep talking to her, she will get rude, and I will feel challenged, and insult her back hard, because I feel I am being insulted, leading to a negative thing

how can I get over this? where I just dont care no matter what they say or do?

sometimes I feel like even approaching certain women comes off that I am really into them, like it bothers me that they might have an ego, and feel powerful rejecting me
it kind of bruises my ego i suppose
You are right, good point
I am a prisoner of my own work
and I think I feel like I am wasting my time going out because in the past I didnt succeed, or I freezed up when I saw a HB
how do I get over that? just force myself to go out and approach?
Thats my problem, I cant walk away from a fight or challenge
I have way too much pride
and it seems like I attract trouble with my personality
somehow I am coming off too aggressive

Like for instance
lets say you approach a girl, and say Hi, how are you?
and she basically ignores you
do you say it again???
get in her face, hi i said hello?
and if she goes, ok great thanks
and its with an attitude
do you pursue to get her to be nice?
I find alot of HB's dont wanna be bothered, like I am annoying them or something
how do I get over this thought pattern that talking to them is annoying to them?
I feel too worried about what they think, maybe because I am a very proud person and feel its almost disrespectful if they reject me like that in a cold way
makes me not wanna approach anyone

I def got some issues dealing with people as you can see
but I wanna change these issues because I know they are holding me back

[/quote]

masterBaiter,


"I guess I get disgusted and nervous when a girl doesnt respond well" in beginners drills - their response is irrelevant, learn to detach yourself. Learn that other people can have a bad opinion about you - but that opinion is a lie. The truth is unless you've known someone for a long time a stranger's opinion is worthless. A stranger has only a microscopic amount of information to 'judge' you and so it's pathetic on their part that they are doing it

Watch this clip...you'll see how your own opinion of the skinhead changes as the ad progresses

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFogBUS3y6I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFogBUS3y6I

People do NOT know your story so their opinion, until they do, is meaningless.

If you've been in situations where you have got into physical fights because of a refusal to back down it's worth considering some counselling. I've known a few people like that and several of my brothers have that mentalitiy - it will fuck your life up, as there are and will be bigger, stronger and nastier people that will have no hesitation in causing you problems. Learn how to walk away.

First off you need to grow a thicker skin. As I bet what is happening is you are allowing the rejection get to you and in turn the girl becomes rude to you because you are treating her rudely and soon you end up fighting some guy. Most girls are still going to be nice to you after they reject you. You just have to be able to take the rejection better. For me personally I turn a rejection in a positive by being proud that I got rejected. I know that may seem to odd. But it helps me not allow the rejection get to me.
There are some women that are like this. But most are not like this way. The ones that tend to be like this tend to be the bitches.
Your never going to learn let alone succeed if you never get out there and approach girls. I understand how being rejected all the time can get to you and get you down. But you are not going to get a girl in real life if you don't get out there and approach. And you pretty much have to force your self to go out and approach girls. I am a fan of taking baby steps, so I would suggest you go to Meetup.com and look for groups that are into the same things that you are into, as well as look for single groups. This way you don't have to deal with approach anxiety in full and you get to learn social skills that you need big time.

I agree with the grow thicker skin comment

I'll add that the OP needs to reframe 'rejection' as 'feedback' - easier said than done

how can u be proud u got rejected?
haha
can u explain that?

I have digested everything else you have all said
and I will get to work
thanks alot
appreciate the insight
MB
[/quote]

Its kinda hard to explain it. As its a psychological thing really. I try to keep my life as positive as possible no matter what happens.
[/quote]Your welcome.