Hey Bro.
thanks for taking some time and answering peoples questions. You got some good karma on the way.
Have been doing PUA for 18 months now, but not really used NLP.
Two questions.

What is the best way to start? Are there small patterns i can work from. I see you reccomend Ross Jeffries. Have just been lent Psychic influence. Id also really like to know about the hypnotic stuff aswell. Am i right in thinking you do a lot of lounge room game? I do mainly shop / coffee bar pick up at the mo, and a lot of it is natural direct game, but am looking for some good material for Day 2.
How quickly do you go into NLP patters?

Second Question.

Is it possible to use NLP on exes? I have an ex LTR that i am hooking up with in a few weeks. We havent spoken for 6 months. I want to ellicit patterns and get her wanting me sexually, but obviously its going to be difficult as that is exactly what her head is guarding her against.

Any pointers would be great buddy.

CB

Hey Mind Hacker
NLP and hypnosis are definitely two different disciplines. To make it more clear, there are a lot of parts of hypnosis that are similar to or used in NLP, but there are many more parts of NLP that are not used in hypnosis. Although hypnosis can be done on oneself (I used to do this a lot, it's quite effective), it was primarily created to use on others. The opposite is true of NLP. As mentioned, a lot of NLP is derived from hypnotists, for example the 'Milton model' (which is one of the most famous models in NLP) was created mainly from modelling Milton Erickson, a famous hypnotherapist. You can of course, simply wiki the two disciplines for a more in depth explanation.
I wouldn't say NLP is a specialization of hypnosis. NLP has its roots in psychotherapy, one could say 'self-help', but with new original ideas modelled largely from watching what experts do to make them experts in their respective fields. So NLP is in a sense a therapy; or, more accurately, it is an end.

Hypnosis however, is a means to an end. They don't both fall under the same hierarchy. Hypnotherapy is the therapy that primarily uses NLP. Hypnotherapy and NLP could be said to be on the same hierarchy. Obviously NLP has grown so much to be used in a variety of manifestations, so these distinctions are blurred in the modern day.

More specifically to your point, it is true that with NLP you don't use as deep a trance, though I wouldn't phrase it as you don't 'need' as deep a trance. They're just two different functions altogether, and with hypnosis it could be argued that the effects are much easier and stronger, and this may largely be proportional to the depth of trance. As you can see I'm using the word 'trance' quite loosely - different people and different fields use it differently, but I suppose if you had to define wha a formal 'trance' might be, you would probably say alpha brainwaves (beta is our natural state).

No worries big man, much appreciated .
18 months is good, you'll have a firm footing then. Ross Jeffries is the founder of Speed Seduction, but there are many so-called 'gurus' out there who use NLP for seduction nower days.

I do a lot of all sorts of game as my ethos and that of my group revolves around field experience as much as possible, particularly over reading and typing. When I first started I was lucky enough to do a lot of lounge room game (house parties and such - these are easily one of the best pick up spots, good for NLP too), however the last two years or so have been a mix of general day game and night game. By night game, the usual clubs and bars, but I do a ridiculous amount of street pickups as well, for various reasons. In fact the last few weeks the majority of our sarging has been on the street. Clubs are not great for NLP, particularly if it's the high-energy-no-space-too-much-noise-too-much-drugs type.
Ah, I do a lot of that as well. Nice places. I find the shop assistants or workers are ideal as well because they have to respond to you out of politeness anyway, so if you can get them at a quiet time you can really rinse them with patterns. Once you're on the day 2, the hard part is over; and NLP is much easier to use logistically.


Absolutely it's possible. You can use NLP on anyone. Heck, you can even use certain principles on animals. Today I played pool against this dyspraxic dude and he took so long to take each shot so I set up an anchor for taking each shot and told him a long story (which was actually an allegory) with embedded commands to keep him going.

I have helped a lot of people get with ex's in the past but it's important you're using NLP not from a point of desperation where you're looking for a magic bullet. This does not appear to be the case with you.

First thing to do is to use pacing and leading in a broad sense - so since you haven't spoken in six months, acknowledge that and catch up on the situation. From there you can lead her to new places.

You don't have to worry about what her head is guarding against - this is not the correct mindset - change her mood not her mind . Whatever precognitions and premeditations she comes to you with, it really doesn't matter, such is the beauty of NLP. Because I find, particularly with NLP that you can really see that girls operate in two different modes - long-term and short-term. All you have to do is get her horny in the short term and she will do anything. This is not as hard as it sounds.

Key is that once all the fluff talk is over, just use a thread to transition into a pattern. I would very much recommend any standard attraction pattern - these always work well.

Be sitting down (make sure you're positioned well logistically) and undisturbed. Have her full attention and the frame. Match body language and breathing rate, but not too obviously. Lots of eye contact; bedroom eyes. Slow down. Speak slowly. Speak deeply.

Once the mood is set you can lead her wherever you want with your patterns. Don't try too hard and don't try and convince her of anything. Remember, the key is to get her wet; change her mood not her mind. You can do this by asking simple questions that elicit a horny mood. E.g.

PUA:
"It's funny you should mention that because John and I were saying the other day that I would much prefer a girl to be interesting...what qualities do you like to see in a guy?"

(The first question is always a big hoop)

HB:
"Hmm, not sure really, I guess they have to be funny and also something about they way they move..."

(Don't take her qualities literally; she doesn't know what the hell she is talking about. "Funny" = I like a guy who can make me wet. However, use the exact words she said, they may be trance words.)

PUA: "Awesome. Yeah I think so too...so how does that make you feel, when you're looking at a guy who's funny and there's something about the way he moves..."

HB:
"Ummm...I dunno I guess, kinda good...like really comfortable.."

(Again, comfortable and good = sex)

PUA:
"Funky man. Omg, you're a bit of a creep aren't you! (Just throw in some banter so it's not like an interview)...you know what that's pretty interesting because John was saying how a psychologist told him that some girls, like you know that feeling when you just.....feel.......so good and comfortable......with someone....and when you're looking at this guy, with some girls, you might feel it...right...here (point to her stomach), like a warm fuzzy feeling...you know? Or with other girls, you might just get a sudden rush of adrenaline or a rush of warmth all down your body (mimic it) like that...can you feel that? Have you ever felt that before?"

HB:
Blah blah blah

So as you can see, we're just making her feel those horny feelings gradually more intensely. I just made that up but this is following a pretty standard algorithm, so you will see many patterns very similar to what I just wrote. This will get her horny. For added effect, use all the senses and make her experience everything. Past experiences are good for this, but you don't want her to be associated too much with ex-bf's etc.

Once she's horny, you just have to find a way to associate it to you, or just put yourself explicitly in the equation.

DON'T VERBALISE IT.

Keep the feeling non-verbal. Just get closer, more kino, more slow, cock your head. Trace your eyes around her body. Keep it sexual. You have to be sexual yourself. An NLP axiom "go first".

You will get the lay if throughout the whole process you keep it slow and sexual. Let her do the hard work of getting horny. Just James Bond it .

The other thing to consider is due to the nature of the meeting she may have a particular reason for coming to meet you after all this time. E.g. to build back relations, catch up, because she wants to reminisce, because she wants to bang the shit outta you; as far as you're concerned, just try and identify it and fulfill it early. If she wants to catch up and find out how you're doing, it will be a lot easier to bang her after you've talked about this. So either fulfill her motives for meeting you, or transform/adapt them to banging you. If you don't know her motives, just assume it's sex.

There's a powerful sexual connection between ex's, so if you've laid her before (even if a long time ago), you just have to show her you're cool to do it again, ensure she doesn't feel slutty and it will be smooth. Don't take anything she says as an excuse because there is no excuse. There is only getting her more wet.

Hope this helps.

Dude this is awesome. I rehearsed the pattern and used it for the first time last night. Its really powerful.
The only problem i had was switching states. I guess adapting between opening with energy to hold a 4 set and then switching states once you have isolated is a skill that needs to be learnt aswell.
Looking more into this, which i have been i just want to know how much it can take over your game. Is it a case of adapting your other game and throwing in NLP where it is needed, or will it eventually overshadow eveyything else. And it seems like quite a learning curve, but with obviously huge rewards

Have PMed you anyway dude, thanks again for your help,

CB

What exactly happened?? I'm curious. You said 'its really powerful' and left it at that. That's pretty vague.

It creates emotions. Go try it, thats the best way of understanding it.

Rafiel, thanks for starting this thread! And thanks to Hobbit for reviving it!
I'm wondering what other tips you would suggest about performing NLP on one's self...?

_________________
Live Your Truth.

like a warm fuzzy feeling...you know? Or with other girls, you might just get a sudden rush of adrenaline or a rush of warmth all down your body (mimic it) like that...can you feel that? Have you ever felt that before?"


Can you just reiterate for me. Does the "mimic" mean i am pointing to myself, or them?

Also dude. Do you have any good NLP style openers or Walkup material. At the mo my daygame consists of pretty direct openers, or a line about shopping for a present. Can you go directly into getting them into that frame?

Thanks as always

Yeah, I know how it looks like when you put girls in a trance. I was just wondering how you would describe it in your own words.

No worries big man, that's good to hear. As you said, switching states will come. Isolating used to be one of my sticking points but once you got the girl 1v1, getting the right state becomes a lot easier. I just.......slow.......down.......deeper.........voice..........bedroom.......eyes........etc.

It's a good question to what extent NLP plays a role in your game; I'd say it's too subjective for me to give a straight answer. I know one PUA who almost exclusively uses NLP as far as 'tactics' go; this has pros and cons. I don't think I'm a good example because often I say to myself what sort of style I'll go into a set before doing so just for fun. However, I will say this - if I particularly want to keep a girl coming back; usually when I find out she has certain characteristics I like, then I'll isolate her and go pretty heavy on the NLP (and its related disciplines) to do so.

Until you find what works best for you, I think it's best to add NLP to parts of your game where you feel necessary; to enhance rather than create your game. This is the normal advice I give but you come from a fairly strong perspective so just flow man. A lot of people turn to NLP as a 'last resort' or 'magic bullet'; that's when you're going wrong.

Thanks Royalty, good stuff.

I have to say whilst when I first started learning NLP I used it a lot on myself, I haven't done so that much in the last few years since my inner game has not needed it.

The foremost thing is though, to not doubt yourself and to not have preconceived expectations.

From here it depends specifically what you were thinking of doing on/to yourself; NLP provides a wide variety of tools for a wide variety of applications, and I could say something about each different one. I wouldn't want to bore you .

Apologies for the delay by the way; I've been out non-stop pretty much, every day.

I got a problem with both embedded commands and anchoring. I like the idea of the Milton Model a lot. However, when I use embedded command, I'm seeing no change, no body language whatsoever, no flirting either. Now, am I saying them wrong? Cause when I say them, I'll say something like: We were talking about attraction in psychology, do you think its a choice? Then she responds. Then I'll say, "let me give you an illustration. Let's say you see an ATTRACTIVE (point) guy, when you FEEL ATTRACTED to him (point), do you SHOW YOUR FEELINGS or do you reserve them?

Now I say those embedded commands (in CAPS) with a slight pause, and I end them with a downward tonality and a slight pause to end. Am I doing this right? My point, or gesture, usually is a touch to the chest, or a four finger point to myself.

And do anchoring words really work. Like when I say the word "attractive" and I point to myself. Will she really attribute the word "attractive" to me? Or am I doing this part of anchoring wrong? Cause I know the other anchor is eliciting a state and then anchor.

Hey mate .

Yes, I should have been more clear. When I said 'mimic' there, I meant to simply go through the feeling/emotion to them. There are a number of ways to do this.

The lines I gave themselves are somewhat beautiful because fundamentally, it's a 'false choice', i.e. you give them two choices which both achieve the desired result. Furthermore, NLP will teach you that despite the choice, they will actually experience both sensations rather than one or the other if you do it right! Now that is cheeky.

The way I usually 'mimic' it is first of all to stop and let them process what you just said. Speak slow with many gaps. Then calibrate - did they feel it? Notice their body language. If not, make them feel it. You can do this by acting out the feeling yourself. Or, ask them how it feels. Where does the feeling start? When was the last time they felt it? Is it a warm or cold feeling? To answer any of these questions she must EXPERIENCE the feeling first.

People who use NLP and its related disciplines to influence others understand this fundamental 'trick' to the human mind very well. The thing is, to UNDERSTAND an emotion or feeling, one must FEEL IT themselves. That is why when you watch a horror movie, stop for a moment and look around the room. Observe their body language. Then when it is a happy/love ending at the end; look around the room; how many people have their hands clasped? They have to feel it to understand it.

The other thing you can do with Ross does a lot is to point at them. Literally point right at their belly and look there as well. This can be very effective if done right, but you can also make them quite insecure. If you ever try pointing at someone's belly, for no reason at all, you will realise that it invokes a negative response. This is largely for evolutionary reasons (or so scientists think).

With regards to NLP openers, yes, this is totally plausible; in fact I was using them a lot last night. If you were to read a lot of Ross Jeffries' very early stuff, you couldn't use it as openers (his openers are hilariously awful anyway); but later SS developed to incorporate making patterns 'natural', i.e. more like normal conversation rather than some hocus pocus bull*.

The simplest way is to start with a normal opinion opener (I know, back to the boring stuff huh) and just load it with NLP. If you theme your opinion opener well - anything about girls/attraction...actually, almost anything at all you can always turn it into a pattern. Just to illustrate this point I'll take a well known opener and flow with it briefly...and I'm going to follow fairly standard lines so you realise you don't have to be overly creative...

Gamble: "Hey guys, who lies more, boys or girls?"

HB: "Umm...where are your friends?"

(Lol, I always used to get this shit test - get your frame right before you start talking)

Gamble: "Hey, stop. Relax. Are you always this unsociable or did you just have along day?"

HB: "I'm not unsociable!"

Gamble: "Good. You see I was wondering because my mate Tommy was saying. Actually wait, let me try this on you, are you ready? Good. Ok, when you see a guy who you really like...I mean, you really feel those feelings of attraction, deep inside, what does that feel like? Quick, one or two words."

HB: "I dunno, all fuzzy I guess."

Gamble: "Cool. Now here's the crucial point - what's the first thing you notice about this guy that gives you those fuzzy feelings?"

HB: "Umm....I dunno, I guess it's something to do with the way he moves?"

Gamble: "Ah you see, now you're being a good girl. High 5 to that! See, I knew a girl who really liked me at the dance classes I go to and I asked her the same question, and she said - a good sense of humour - and I just said...no you don't, you're lying. You just like to have passionate sex. And she totally blushed. You see a guy wouldn't lie about it, what do you think?.....etc etc"

So yeah, as far as patterns go (which is not the be-all and end-all of NLP), you can really go anywhere and let things flow. It will come more naturally as you learn more material, bit by bit.

As far as NLP goes, a big part of me would just say that your first step is to engage her in conversation; WHATEVER METHOD does this the best; be it including NLP, your direct stuff, opinion or oh my god openers...whatever...use it, and then transition into more heavy NLP stuff. NLP comes into its own when you have the frame and the environment. There's no real need to start off with it if you're not going to hook.

However. Parts of it will always be in everything you do. NLP is too broad a discipline to reduce to petty patterns and routines.

Hey Rafiel,
I was just thinking about using self anchoring which boosts the confidence feeling when triggered on. What do you think about using that on guys who have approach anxiety? Do you think it will work?

Hello mate.

I'm almost 100% sure I know why they're not working. Well, it is probably a combination of reasons, but the three most important ones are:

a) Enough compliance
b) the HB does is not in the right state
c) you are saying it wrong.

If you really want anchoring and embedded commands to work, the best way is to take the approach of a hypnotist, in my opinion. Hypnosis is largely based on the power of suggestion, and this power increases exponentially the deeper level of 'trance' someone is in. Embedded commands were born from conversational hypnosis, and, in essence are just suggestions that hypnotists would normally give, only hidden somewhat in normal conversation.

So, with a)

Get them to buy into you, you should hook and they should agree to things you say. You want compliance as much as possible, this will make all of your SS/NLP whatever stronger. Everytime they comply with you, verbalise it or even better, get them to verbalise it to make them really experience and consciously process their compliance to you. E.g. If they laugh at your joke, say, I'm glad you think I'm funny, or if they get a drink for you, say thank you for getting me a drink etc. You simply cannot do what you are trying to do with a strong degree of compliance.

b)

The ideal state is one of relaxed awareness and focus on you. Eye contact is essential. There should be no or little outward distractions. The more focused they are on you and the deeper state of relaxation you can induce, the more suggestive they will become. Try and be close to them physically if possible, and also if you are able to look slightly down on them this is ideal for a number of reasons.

c)

You need to speak deeply and slowly. There is a technique called overloading which contradicts at least the latter statement, but for the most part, being SLOW is of vital and often overlooked importance. Their subconscious needs time to process every command you give. Often less is more. One command or anchor delivered well can do much better than many.

Just to focus on one of your specifics:
As you rightly allude, this won't work unless you have a lot of experience in using this stuff. That's just too weak a verbal attack. But, it would work if:

-She was in a relaxed trance like state (as much as possible in normal conversation)
-you had a lot of compliance
-you said it slowly, with pauses, and deeply, analogue marking the embedded commands as you're doing.

Hope this helps