hey all, thanks for reading this post

I've been in a relationship for about 10 months now. it all started out great like most relationships, lot's of kissing/cuddling which eventually turned out to sex in approx. 2 months. She was a virgin but she had 2 relationships which lasted 4 and 8 months before she met me. She wasn't used to escalate fast (she told me 2 months was fast for her, i have to respect that). So we took it slow.

First few times we tried she was in a lot of pain, I know that the pain will go away when we try it more and more, since she'll eventually will adjust to my size (im not that big, she's really small). The problem is that she doesnt want to try it again, not even with lube. we haven't had real sex for the last 3 months. giving head doesn't satisfy me enough obviously.

she told me the thought of trying it again alone even turns her off dramatically. Then i told her we should try it slowly and that i didn't expect to have sex for hours but if she would give it a go again i would really appreciate that. I also told her having sex is a big deal for me (and every dude, lets be honest) and not having the sex i want could be a reason for me to break up.

when i told her that she started crying and eventually got really mad.
but im kinda sick of not fucking her, when we started out we had sex for 45-60 minutes, im pretty sure she wasn't in pain all that time. She tells me she's satisfied with what we have right now and that the fucking will come eventually in the future. but i don't want that, i want it right now.

am i selfish for this? im 20yo.

thanks!

Hi mate.

There was one big mistake you made here though: You pressured her. Basically this is what the message was: Have sex with me or I might dump you.

Dude... No. Absolutely no.

You started off good by NOT pressuring her and respecting the time it took for you to have sex for the first time. And it worked, didn't it? So you should've done the SAME thing again now. Say that you respect that she doesn't want to have sex (yet) because it hurts - but it would mean the world to you if she tried it for your sake. After some time - she would probably try it again. Why? Because she's not stupid (I hope). She realizes that a relationship is exceptionally hard to balance without the sex.

Hope you understand what I'm trying to tell you.

Wow, that is a tough situation that you have there. One one hand she has a pretty good reason for not wanting to do it often. The one the other hand I know how much guys, myself included, crave sex from their partner.

I admire the fact that you two have obviously tried exploring other sexual alternatives like oral sex and probably other things to help satisfy your desire. That shows a strong commitment to each other for the past 10 months to talk about things and work towards compromise. The only problem is of course its one of those things that we truly don't want to compromise over. I also like the fact that you didn't just sit there and not say anything you confronted her with the issue.

Lack of intimacy is a dealbreaker for many people in a relationship. It shows a imbalance in the relationship. I would confront her one last time with it be firm but yet understanding. The thing of it is you need to be specific when you talk to her. You must tell her that intimacy through sex is a vital part of your relationship with her, and that you don't want to commit yourself to a life without intimacy.

Like I said be very specific in saying, "I would like to have sex twice a week." rather than "I would like to have sex more often." Being vague makes you harder to understand what you require. At the same time be empathetic and understanding since you are her first physical partner. She has a strong connection to you emotionally, mentally, and physically. You cannot ignore your needs, and these are needs that are very reasonable to have.

You might want to make sure and rule out any kind of physical or medical issue that would prevent her from being able to have more sex with you. Outside of your direct and specific discussion with her, you two could always seek out a sex therapist in order to continue to preserve the relationship that you've invested this much time into. OR of course you can break up with her.

I wish you the best of luck sir,

Jon

_________________
Been around the world twice, Talked to everyone once...

Zentrode - Yep.
Jsmooth - no no No NO! That is completely backwards!

Women make decisions based on emotions! If you know that women make decisions based on emotion, then things become immediately obvious;

• martialAnc - the pain is just an excuse, because she doesn't 'feel' like having sex with you.
• JSmooth - that approach is going to make her feel pressured and upset and will guarantee failure.

martialAnc - You know the pain isn't the problem cause you've already done it for an hour at a time. You can easily see from her behaviour that she doesn't feel like having sex with you. Women get feelings from intuition based on cues they pick up subconsciously. They CAN'T be explained with conscious thought! The nearest excuse will pop in her head - in this case it's the old "painful" thing.
It's something else you're doing or not doing that's causing her to lose attraction for you. I suggest looking at some of your old PUA material and brush up on all areas of your life, try and find what it is that's causing her not to want to hump your leg.

Jsmooth - Here's why your approach is backwards. That approach is NOT going to make her say: "WOW, all those logical reasons and ultimatums and setting a schedule for sex really turns me on!" Will she have sex with you? Quite unlikely. Will she enjoy it if she does? Definitely not. She's been pressured into it, she still sees it as something she doesn't want to do with you, she'll be completely tense and she won't enjoy it, and ultimately, she'll learn to associate those bad emotions with sex! And then cause you want to do it all the time, subsequently she associates those bad emotions with you! If you want to ensure you'll never have sex with her again, go this route!

Being firm and logical is necessary for a man to do for certain things in a relationship, but sex, which is a purely emotional and physical thing, is not the place for it.


Change a woman's mood and you change her mind. There is no avoiding this fact of life. I've seen women completely turn 180 on a point of view they held previously, purely based on how they "feel" about it at that time, due to things they've picked up subconsciously. Watching them try to justify themselves is astounding. They will go as far as making up things that didn't happen, or just avoiding explaining it altogether. I've seen this work both positively and negatively. A girl I knew decided to try a diet that we'd argued about previously - and the only thing that had changed was our relationship had improved - no new facts had been presented to her, in fact during the arguing - presenting the facts made her more resistant, because it made her feel pressured. A girl I knew who had a few encounters with me, who had since gotten over me (because I left her, something I regret) literally re-wrote history in her head saying she didn't do key things that I remember quite clearly.

first off all, great responses, i really appreciate this.

i now know it was very bad to follow the path i did. i basically said i would break up if we didn't have sex in the future. i guess this is blackmail.

but @ conker:

she always felt pain during sex, thats what she tells. but what i was trying to say is that there must have been (and there have been) times where it didnt hurt that bad and actually felt good/better (where we made progress)

so the pain isn't suddenly. she tells me she feels more turned on the more she's with me because those feelings weren't natural for her with her past BF's.

for example: in the beginning of the relationship she was just letting me finger her and now she often begs for it when i tease her.

this hasn't got to do with me not being able to excite her, we do oral sex 90% of the time when im with her at her home or she's over at my place. of course this isn't proof that im doing a great job arousing her all the time, but just to show you we're both sexual with eachother.

the last time we actually had sex she started crying because of the pain. i don't think she fakes the pain
im very sure it'll go better and better when we start to do it more and involve lube.

she tells me she's always way more aroused and sexual when she knows im not going to want to fuck her (like when she's on her period), sort of a relieve the pain won't come i guess.

it's mainly mental ofcourse since everybody can enjoy sex right? its just practice??

EDIT:

i believe the last 3 times we tried she bursted into tears and told me she was afraid of losing me because she was disappointing me.

so me:

i want to have more (i'd say 1-2 a week) fucking, and i want her to enjoy it aswell

her:

she doesn't want to practice because she's afraid it'll hurt her and therefor wants to find substitutes for fucking. but she also wants me to be happy and she told me she wants to fuck good but isn't ready for practicing (aka doesnt want to feel pain)..

o btw,

we do a lot of dry fucking which ends with a blowjob

It's obvious you have limited experience in a long term relationship. I speak from the experience of being probably older than you not to mention married before.

You're basically telling him he should ignore his feelings and the fact that sex is important to him, be a wussy, and just not say anything about it. Well man, I can tell you that in terms of a longer relationship you ignoring things like this will break you up later and cause resentment. There is nothing wrong with him sitting her down and explaining that this is an important thing to him in the relationship.

We're not delivering ultimatums in the aspect of have sex with me or I'm gone. However, we're explaing that sex is an important part of any relationship he's in and that it could potentially be a deal breaker for him. She needs to understand that or its just going to cause more problems down the road.

I agree that you can change and manipulate women's emotions and that can change their attitude and views on things, SURE. The point is physical pain is not something that can really be ignored. It's obvious she experiences it based on what has been written here.

As far as her feeling pressured, your damn right she will but that is the point. Its obvious he cares a lot about having sex in his relationships or he wouldnt be calling out for help on a public forum. I understand her feelings on how she might resent him but damn't he has needs to that need to be met, and he shouldnt have to sacrifice on those needs.

Jon

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Been around the world twice, Talked to everyone once...

i very much agree with the last post.

in long term relationships if you're having an issue you should be able to talk about it.

having a gf who cries when you penetrate her and isn't willing to do anything about it. there's has to be a problem.

but she associates the bad feelings with fucking, which of course is quite logic since every time i insert her she feels the pain. she doesn't want to feel the pain so she tries to avoid the problem so she doesn't have to deal with the consequences.

i fucked up pretty bad by telling her its either this way or the other though.

any advice how to fix that?

thanks

@ hobbit:

no doubt in my mind that i don't love her. she loves me too, we've already spoken about having children together etc. you're right about me thinking about me so much. but I've been very patient and she tells me i've been very patient and sweet as well. I understand her situation and feel really bad for her and the situation.

but im the one who has to fix it, or at least i am the one who has to get her motivated to start trying again so she and i can be happier.
She tells me she's fine about everything in our relationship, but the only thing she doesn't like is me wanting to penetrate her, because she knows i don't like the situation and she feels guilty about it.

she thinks sex therapy is stupid and doesn't want to talk about it, she doesn't even want to talk to her mom or anyone else but me about this issue.

i guess she's just shy and not confident enough, any thoughts how to get her to sex therapy?

I was a bit harsh but it's true - forcing her, without finding out what her underlying problem is, is not the way to go. Jsmooth you probably didn't mean "just force her" but I could only see a focus on stating what he wants, having a schedule (twice a week) this is a very typical mistake which I've learned from and improved things drastically for myself. A lot of PUA material focuses on "being a man" and ZERO understanding the girl! This gets you only so far and eventually leads to failure. A real man can "be a man" and make a girl feel safe and protected, not force himself on her. And yes I'm speaking from experience with long term relationships. (For the record I'm 31 but don't intend on getting married soon)

My opinion is she has a huge sort of hang up. There are times you got it right and it wasn't hurting or felt better, yet she's not willing to even try it, and is blocking every attempt - "sex therapy is stupid". Is it really? How would she know? That is an illogical, emotional response.

I still can't rule out an underlying mental issue. Because if she is stressed, everything will be worse - she won't relax, she'll focus on the pain, she'll associate bad feelings with it.

Whatever you do, you HAVE to associate good feelings with sex, working towards penetrative sex. If at the very least you don't do this - nothing will work.

And yes of course she should know you want sex, but I think that's pretty clear at this point.

She trusts you enough to talk about it which is good but she can't trust anyone else. To me it sounds like she hates the fact that its even happening and is ashamed of it, which of course contributes to the whole thing and makes it less likely to work. Which typical of a hang up, they have this re-enforcing loop (I acknowledged that about my own hang ups, that was the only way to conquer them).

Hobbit suggested lube but I'm assuming you've tried that?

Consider this - if she thought penetrative sex could be good, if she really wanted to make it work, then it's hard to imagine why she wouldn't be willing to relax and try something, like you gradually stepping up the size of what you put in her (eg, one finger, two fingers) slowly over time. I can't believe it couldn't work - girls can do amazing things with their vaginas with training. I know some really really tiny girls who LOVE having their vaginas stretched by something big (eg. 3 fingers vertically).

If even the thought of attempting to solve the problem sends her into an emotional frenzy - it's a hang up.

look .. if she doesn't want sex with you because of her pain and problems then she won't be fucking other guys.

don't rush it man ... alot of good information in this post... get a book about sex or something maybe give a sex instructional manual + a cool cologne for her birthday - or just for fun.

DUDE i know you want sex .. every guy wants it ...... can't you wait some time ?

build sex up ... try out oral sex ... use your tongue and fingers.

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hey you guys, awesome posts again, really appreciate it.

we've been talking for a while about the situation and she is willing to 'solve' the problem by trying to practice more together. I've told her I was being an a-hole and she deserved more respect.

for the lube: i did buy (way too much lol, 4 pieces of KY), the stuff is great. we havent tried it for fucking, i did finger her with it, 3 fingers fitted in, great progress

for now on i have to associate penetration with good feelings, any thoughts on that? maybe reward her and tell her she did great after practice. (even after fingering for example?) and giving her compliments during intercourse?

any thing i should avoid maybe?

thanks!

o yeah, it's all good now between us, she isn't mad and neither am I, its more clear what we want now.

really glad forums like these exist, else there would be alotttttttttttttttt more frustrating all over the world.

only problem now is that im so motivated to loosen her up lol, can't wait. wish i was more patient

you guys im thinking of telling her she will be able to decide whether or not to have penetration for the next few months.

ill just finger her through that time with a couple of fingers and she will be able to decide whether or not she wants penetration or not.

i think by this tactic she maybe feels relieved and she knows she's the 'boss'.