I know for a fact that you can be a skinny, chodey looking, pimply dude with glasses and no style.. but still land attractive chicks. I've seen very attractive girls with very chodey looking dudes. But the dude always had a really cool personality, one where people love to be around him.. or some sort of power (social power, money, etc). Reminds me of this very hot girl I know at my Uni who's dating this super skinny chodey looking guy. However, he's the president of a decent fraternity, has tons of social power, lots of friends, etc. He aint so chode now is he?

However, you're wrong in a way. Looks CAN matter.
Back when I was 17 years old, I was very chode and shy, but good looking. I've always known I have been good looking and that landed me at least one make-out and one lay.
Anyway, I was 17 and walking up to a house party with a friend. Two girls are leaving, and one is mrs. ______ of my high school and cheerleading captain. Very very popular, but i'd only rate her a 7 in looks. She yells "OH MY GOD! He's SO HOT!" to her friend while pointing at me, I walk up to her and we flirt for 30 seconds..she asks for my number. We meet up the next weekend and we make out at her friend's house party. I get too drunk, end up puking, then drank tons of water, and passed out. I wake up at 3am with her body right next to mine, and she moves slightly.. I know she's awake. We start making out, and you know what happens next. She planted the perfect logistics, huh?

Another time, I was at a party, and age 18 (still pretty chode), this one girl I barely knew was leaving. She grabs me and plants her mouth on mind, we start making out. This lasts for a solid minute, and she leaves. I didnt even say or do ANYTHING directly towards her.

So if looks don't matter, what is all of this intitial attraction I get from chicks, back when I was super chode? There have been plenty of times where a girl tells her friend that i'm cute or sexy after meeting her.
What about when I walk around with my friend who's a shorter 5'5, a bit chubby, and kind of ugly in the face... that chicks check me out, while ignoring my friend? I know some of it also has to do with BL, the way I walk, etc... but I know good looks get you initial attraction.

Then of course, I must utilize that attraction I've gained by just being there, and escalate on the girl. I also know that VERY few girls will approach me and game me like those two instances.. especially now that i'm older and require more escalation on my part.

If you lack physical attractiveness as a male, you sure as hell better have a kick ass personality to back up where you're lacking. That is it.

Looks only matter during the attraction phase... They will get you from A to C... That means they'll cut you some slack and listen to what you have to tell them.

To get from C-Z, its all game and confidence...

Unfortuantely, girls minds' work different than guys. They wont start making out and undressing by just knowing your good looking.. on the other hand, for a guy, looks are all whats needed for sex..

And btw.. from experience, most hot girls aren't with good looking guys.. they're usually with average looking guys who are extremely socialable and experienced.. Thats why girls tend to go for older guys (not only about money)... ask any average/good looking guy this and they'll agree (dont ask an ugly guy, because to him, everyone is good looking).. ..

Could you please explain me more how looks only matter during the attraction phase sentence??!


[ Johnny B ]

_________________
When you lose, don't lose the lesson. ~Author Unknown
Fear has a large shadow, but he himself is small. ~Ruth Gendler

Lets first remember that this topic is about hot girls. Hot girls rarely approach guys (good looking or bad looking)... Everybody has different standards, but by a hot girl i mean an HB9-HB10. a thin girl with breasts, ass, curves, and a pretty face... One that gets attention right and left from every guy in the club..

With that said:

IF you go up to a girl like that, and your good looking and you say your pick up line. You'll rarely get shut down. YOu might not necessarily hook up with her, but she'll give you a good two minutes of her time, and will actually be into the convo you started. If your a bad looking guy, she'll talk to you with the mindset of "when is this guy going to have to stop talking to me, where are my friends,, ewww." thats why when you lack looks you really NEED to know how to come off differently and be interesting. THats why direct game is mostly effective for good looking guys because a good looking guy really doesn't have to be that interesting during the approach phase.

However in the end, the approach is only phase A through C.. Because after that, a girl either turns on or turns off attraction.. hence, looks only help you in the very beginning...

Unless you are in the OC.

Dudes, this thing got stupid...

Wanna know how much looks matter?

-------------1 + sqrt(5)
Beauty = ————-----
----------------2

Beauty=1.618033988749894848204586834365638117720309179805762862135448622705260462818902449707207204189391137…

Thats the golden ratio, everything beautiful in the universe is related with that number.

The other things that people call beauty, its mostly social conditioning and shit like that.

How important is beauty? a lot. It can make a huge difference, in some species, its a matter of life and death. But I'm talking about mathematical beauty here, true beauty, not the stuff you see in a magazine. Not being conventionaly beautiful doesnt means that you are not mathematically beautiful. True beauty can be found even in the cells of your circulatory system.

Who knows, maybe tomorrow looking like shit would be the hip thing.

If you are an ugly ass dude, you should be thankful for not being a chick. Ugly chicks have a really fucking hard time. If ur an ugly dude you can still get hot women, but for an ugly chick is almost impossiblo to get decent looking men.

If you are ugly dont let it be an obstacle to be happy. That would be really pathetic and sad. Overcome your obstacles and insecurities, and you'll have my admiration.

_________________
"[Cool is] a heavily manipulative corporate ethos. ”
Kalle Lasn

"Motherfuckers best belive in....That you are fucking with the best" - 3oh!3

Teasing is a battle plan for what Shakespeare called “the merry war.”

This. (Agree).





Anyhow.




Looks really do matter iny my honest opinion. I'm not going to go into all 'Oh all the girls always go for the attractive guys', they do, they will. And yes, I'm, talking about physical appearance.

BUT

Lemme tell you, a very important thing about this. Someone who is lucky enough to have a pretty shaped face, and decent hair, can STILL come across as unattractive, if their body language is very unconfident.

Now, yes, someone who is physically 'blessed' or however you wish to refer to it, they will likely have to do less to appear attractive, as long as they arent heavily drunk or extremely timid, they will appear attractive.

Now, 'ugly' dudes, chode dudes, pussy ass chumps, whatever, often have shit body language. Which does no favours at all.

I went uptown today, and decided to watch everyone. I noticed a wholeeee load of things. Ugly guys with ugly girls, ugly guys with average girls, ugly guys hot girls. and vice versa. Chode guys with innocent(but hot) girls. Loadssss of combinations. East european's with chinese girls. Asian guys with white girls, or other. etc etc. I pretty much seen it all. It IS happening out there, it's just not happening in your mind!

I also noticed a guy who would be considered by most as 'physically attractive', he was sitting there rather nervous looking and such shit, which I think lowered his attractiveness majorly. I saw not such 'pretty' looking guys, who had a good confident positive body language. And guess what, these guys were surrounded with several girls, where as, other guy, pretty-boy, had none around him.

I also noticed ugly people, also act ugly. Which like, destroys them. And the term 'getting lucky' could never be more true if they were to be nailing someone.

Now, personally, while having good fashion and style can be megas booster points, I think they mean pretty much SHIT in comparison with physical attractiveness. Attractive guys can get laid wearing shit clothes, ugly guys will still struggle in good clothes(though it may help them). Actually, okay, it can help, I half take that statement back. But now, lets say you havent really got the money for clothes, or, you're in crappy clothes you train in, or been doing some work in. Then what? Guess what physical attractiveness matters a lot now. Plus, you can't polish a turd, but you can roll it in glitter. But then what, you end up with a glittery turd...

PHYSICAL ATTRACTIVENESS
Now, before you're all "hold your horses, LB!", Lemme explain what I personally believe this to be. Now, while having a pretty face or golden rectangle jaw, or whatever shit people are claiming to be attractive, while that all does play a part in physical attractiveness, its not the be all end all. Physical attractiveness runs a lot deeper, well, I dunno bout a 'lot', but certainly runs deeper...
Body language is a hugeeee part of physical attractiveness. Seriously. I don't mean men who swing their arms about loads are moe attravtive, but theres a lot of subtleties that effect your physical attractiveness through body language. Seriously, dont just gesture with your hands/arms, gesture with your damn face. You know what, I'm ugly as hell, I have bad teeth aswell, and I also think I have a lame ass smile, but you know what, when I smile, it makes me a whole lot more attractive/appealing. I've actually been told on many occasion that I have a lovely smile, and I know when people are taking the piss, and they wernt. It actually made me stop smiling though 'cause I was too 'cool' to be smiling lololol. But seriously, smiling and facial gestures etc etc REALLY BOOST your physical attractiveness. Jezebel has a post somewhere about smiling, I might go give it another read, and I'd suggest perhaps all you should too.
If anyone has seen the Ultimate Natural Game dvd's, or seen Matt Hussy, he demonstrates this very fucking well. Personally, I don't think he has average 'born with' looks, but he comes across as veryyyy physically attractive. And I've only seen him wearing a black plain tshirt and jeans, and maybe a jacket. Nothing special, but he comes across very confident and attractive. Then, he changes his body language, and acts in a way a timid/shy/unconfident person would, and he looked seriouslyyyyy unnatractive, I almost wanted to slap him for coming across as such a damn chode. Lol. But seriously, he showed how majorly body language/facial gestures can boost your attractiveness.



Now, with all that being said... Shut the fuck up, go fix these things, and GO NAIL SOME DAMN CHICKS!!!

(P.S: reserves the right to whinge about his looks...)

~Liquid Blend

_________________
Munroe: "I kinoed the hell out of that goat"
Jav: "bashing chodes 24/7 ftw"
Slywalker: "Neg the bagel"
Slywalker: "I had a 1yr old GF when I was 19"
SS_Trunks:I asked her for an extra pen, confidently....

ive made my own numerical system in which i can move up or down. SPAM in in the above average phase but will soon be in the good phase.

its not just about facial features though. if everything else is spot on but you have an average face you'll still PU top HBs. to me its more about overall image.

_________________
'You're not your job. You're not how much money you have in the bank. You're not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You're not your fucking khakis. You're the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world.'

I consider myself fairly attractive. I get compliments on my eyes all the time at work from older customers, but I have zero game and no sex life. The closest I have come in the past year was meeting someone in World of Warcraft for a short fling, but I chickened out when it came to sex(self esteem issues). I am shy and introverted and have bad fashion sense and a crappy retail job. I have been into PUA for 2 years but have made no approaches. I believe looks don't matter, or at least matter somewhere under 5% of attraction. As someone who was gifted with decent looks, I envy those men who think they look average or who think they are ugly and pull HB9's and 10's. I am 28 and becoming depressed because I used to think that you could pull the beautiful women by being good looking. Maybe it can be summed up like this:

Beautiful women are with good looking guys because good looking guys usually have more confidence due to their looks. Thus, confidence is the key and not looks. I'm just taking a wild guess, but I believe there is more to attraction than just looks.

On that note, how important is a good job to a woman? I'm working on getting into my career but for right now its a 50/50 chance. I have been too scared to approach because I'm a lowly sales associate. I am afraid of the "What do you do?" question more than any. I am not a good liar, so I don't want to say I am an ass model or professional thumb wrestler. I wouldn't be congruent enough to pull it off.

Also, do we have a definition of what is attractive? I know everyone says Brad Pitt, but what makes him so attractive? :/

phyiscal atraction is to a degree important.

a friend of mine is the best example, he has no game but gets about evry girl.
i asked a few girls why they dated him, they al said because he looks so fucking hot.

physical atraction isn't needed but it's helpfull what is important that you looked well groomed, if you look like you haven't showerd in a week you can forget it

_________________
don't take life to serious and enjoy what's comming to you,
you're never alone, love those who deserve to be,
and at last never judge and be your own unique self

so you are saing a 4/10 looking guy who has a personality and game at 9/10 will do as good as 9/10 looking guy who has a personality and game at 9/10?
Do you actually believe that? if not - answer is simple - looks matter. If yes, you actually believe it - then looks does not matter.
Cheers

You can easily change your looks. I'm an average looking guy but I dress reasonably well and take care of myself, it seems to work.

I mentioned this before in another post but it still holds powerful truth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_Uribe an 800 pound man got married a second time. This is pretty much the best example I can find outside my personal expereince that shows looks arent extremely important. Or this example shows that there are girls out there that wish bean bag chairs had penises.

Also my belief is if you managed to succesfully seduce one woman, you're bound to seduce more women.

You can't deny the fact that it helps you to some extent. Either getting their attention or even improving self confidence or other. Of course you can pu without good looks, but seriously...why cripple yourself?

I don't think you can simplify it down to "looks matter" or "looks don't matter" when referring to how women perceive men. That is the whole reason we all care about appearance and its not just personal pride, its a part of public perception. If looks didn't matter then style/grooming would not matter either, lets not lie to ourselves, we all know that looking good helps. I think the point of saying "looks don't matter" is to avoid psychological traps and to enable us to approach really good looking women. The bottom line is that if you approach you might get her regardless of your looks, so you can't let fear of rejection or inferior feelings stop you.

here is one thing I am totally convinced of. Act like a Beta Male or get made to appear like one by AMOG's or other obstacles and you lose the girl. This is even if you are very good looking. I know this, I have experienced it, and I have seen it happen to others. The rough ugly goon guys know this and that is how they get laid.

Let me tell you that good looks can HURT you. If you are good looking, and you wear flashy or stylish clothes/hair, and you have ANY beta male or feminine traits at all, a certain percentage of people will assume you are GAY and a lot more will simply be jealous. The better looking you are, the more the HB's ugly friends will try to chase you off. The more threatened and prone to violence the tough ugly alpha males will be towards you. You set off alarm bells everywhere. The average looking guy slips under the radar. The last time I went to a country bar I saw this guy that looked like he walked out of a Ralph Lauren ad. I was actually afraid for his safety and he had absolutely no luck with the women in that environment.