Similar to my marriage report (
married-psycho-hb9-from-uk-in-las-vegas ... 51359.html), this topic is about how I ended up going out with a girl after 18 months of plowing until she finally gave in, and then the relationship that followed. But this report just goes to prove you can get out of the friends zone if you try hard enough. But the harder it is to get there, the harder it is to get out... read on...
I'd just recently separated from my wife, and was going out hard smashing it eight nights a week with one of my best friends who had also recently split up with his missus.
I spotted a tall slim blonde girl with a group of friends - I hadn't even approached a girl properly since the split with my wife, so this was it. I sauntered over and I used Juggler's technique. No opinion openers, no clever technique or IVD or DHV. I just said, "Hi." She immediately turned around and had the biggest friendliest smile on her face ever as if she were pleased to see me even though she'd never met me before - IOI. I then just used some natural game and talked to her and all her friends equally. Her friends were considerably less attractive than her, so this endeared me to her more. I then offered to buy them all drinks. I normally wouldn't do this as it can be wasting money, but she was the sweetest girl ever and I could tell from the stories she told me she wasn't exactly flush. She told me in the first 10 minutes of meeting her that she had two kids (twins, a boy and a girl), was on police bail for breaking a girl's nose and her dad who is a karate instructor had just been shot in South Africa when a gunman entered his dojo to rob them. I loved this girl already!!
I won't elaborate more on this night, as we chatted and that's as far as it went, although I got her number.
We met up numerous times after that, usually her and her friends coming out meeting me and my friends in the local bars/club. We had clearly entered the friends zone.
Every time I gave her a lift home and we sat outside her house in the car, I always expressed to her that I like her and she said she likes me. No technique, just pure honesty. But there were two problems - she still lived with the dad of her kids and even if he wasn't home, she was very conscious about me coming into her house because she had no carpet on the stairs, she said the house was a mess due to kids' toys, etc. She was very self-conscious and obviously insecure. I only worked around the corner from where she lived, and it took months before I convinced her to let me come round for coffee at lunchtime - she always said "Nooooo, I look a state, I've got no makeup on, the house is a mess, the kids are being ratbags" etc. etc.
Eventually, I beat her into submission. Not literally! LOL... but through sheer persistence and plowing, I eventually got there. It was a case of inching in there one small bit at a time.
She used to come over to my house to visit, just for a cup of tea, she was more comfortable with that. She could do her makeup beforehand, and she didn't need to be conscious of what I thought of her house or kids' mess, etc. Then one night, I tried to kiss her. She nearly kissed me back before leaving. She texted me five minutes later saying she wished she had.
18 months went by. I dated her best friend. I even dated her sister!!! I didn't sleep with either of them though. Her best friend had herpes anyway, so a good job I didn't! In some ways they were tactical endeavours to instil some jealousy in her (not my primary reason for dating them, but it crossed my mind), but they were also the cross I had to bear later on after we entered into a relationship.
After some months of laying off the pressure and letting the dust settle a bit from dating her best friend and sister, I decided to put the pressure back on again. I arranged to go out with her regularly - we had a few favourite spots in pubs out of our own town. Nando's in Basingstoke, Chicago Rock in Windsor. Anywhere but Camberley where we lived!
This was the trick I was using effectively. Get her to spend time with me, just us. Get her used to favourite spots that we could relate to as a "couple". If girls spend enough time with a guy alone, and get used to it, and enjoy that time, and it breaks them away from the mundaneness that their own life might be, they start falling for you. And this is exactly what eventually happened.
One night, we were in a local bar, and one of the doormen was a guy she'd slept with and resented. So, I used that as a device for HER to use jealousy tactics with me. I engaged in lots of kino with her at the expense of the doorman and to her amusement, but it also created a more sensual connection between us over the course of the evening, especially as we were getting more and more drunk. Then, we just suddenly kissed... right in front of the doorman. It just happened. Neither of us really initiated it. Kiss
And we slept together the same night. She put up lots of LMR, more than I had really ever experienced with any girl. But I persisted in the sack with her just like I'd persisted for the last 18 months. I cavemanned her, I used push-pull, I took things slow when she showed LMR and continued with the kissing, pulling of hair, etc. Anything to get her into that frame of mind. I knew that if she could come round after 18 months to finally kiss me, she obviously still had feelings for me from before I dated her best friend and sister, and I could get her to come round to finally fuck me. The one method I didn't/wouldn't use is freeze-out. A strong-willed girl that can resist and stay in the friends zone for 18 months is not going to respond to freeze-out, so don't try that one at home kids, with a girl you've known for that long. They'll just say 'fine, cool, we'll just carry on being friends as normal'.
The following few weeks I encountered massive amounts of ASD with her - equivalent to all the LMR she showed me when we got down to it the first time. She said it was a mistake, she regrets doing it, etc. etc. I was only the fourth guy she'd ever slept with. So I gave constant reassurance after reassurance till she finally came round to the idea that I wasn't just a guy trying to take advantage of her. She brought up me dating her best mate, her sister, "all the other girls" I've been with. She wanted massive amounts of validation and this is what's important to recognise. A girl like this who knows you really well and has slept with very few guys doesn't want to be another notch on your bedpost - they want validation. And they'll give you every single negative line in the ASD handbook till you have validated them to royal status!
But be warned - this type of girl is also going to be very wary, very jealous, and will fall unhealthily in love with you once you have taken them beyond a certain point. I had persevered with this girl more than any other guy ever had, I had spent time with her, I had in many ways become her closest and best friend, and I had placed her on a pedestal so high, she did not want to come down again.
We entered into a fully-fledged relationship. I loved this girl. I loved her with all my heart. I got to know her family, her kids, everyone in her life, and vice versa.
The next nine months was turbulent to say the least and I summarised it completely in a question I put on an agony aunt website
www.dearcupid.org just after we split up the final time when I felt desperate and wanted nothing more than to get back with her. To quote:
Quote:
We have such an incredible bond, we have fun, laughter, love spending time with each other, and know each other inside-out. We are madly in love with each other and we are everything we want in each other. BUT, there have been problems. We've split up three or four times during the 9 months we've been together, and it has always been due to her massive distrust of me. I have never cheated on her, but she has consistently accused me of sleeping with my various female friends. Admittedly, I dated her sister (ONLY dated) very briefly over a year ago, and I used to be a stripper until three years ago (which was just to earn extra cash after I bought a property). On the outside, I seem like a player due to my extrovert personality and social outwardness, but when it comes down to it, I'm not interested in sleeping around and prefer to be with a girl whom I can love and care for. While I have been with her, I have shown her abundant amounts of love and affection. I do everything for her, put all my time, effort, money and love into her. And I have done all this despite her woes: she has a complete lack of ability to show any sign of affection (except when drunk when she's able to show her feelings more), she has complete lack of empathy, and is more irrational and unreasonable than any other girl I have ever dated. For example, if I'm late from work by half an hour, she'll accuse me of sleeping with girls at work in the toilets!
But I try to understand because I love her to bits, and she has had a very bad life which I feel sorry for her and want to make the best life possible for her and her kids. She was raped when she was 14, she had twins at 19, she's extremely poor, has only two friends, and her family don't support her at all. Other than that, she's a stunning girl, tall and slim, looks very similar to Sarah Harding from Girls Aloud. But she isn't arrogant about it, and only wants to have happiness and love with the right guy, and she chose me. When we split up a few months ago, it was due to her accusing me again of sleeping with my friend. Her problem is that she completely clams up and does not communicate in order to discuss the matter. Once she's made her mind up, she completely shuts down and refuses to enter any sort of dialogue. I end up getting frustrated, I continually press the issue (pleading and begging, not shouting or anything) and eventually she says some harsh things and ultimately on this occasion ended it with me. I reacted by tipping her hi-fi on the floor of her bedroom breaking it and leaving. I would never hit her or hurt her in any way, and I've been told by friends that at least I didn't throw the hi-fi at her! And sometimes, a man can do something like break something when so angered and frustrated. However, she saw it as a massive thing and said I have anger management problems. So I agreed to go to therapy, even went to The Priory. And then we got back together.
After that, things were great again for a while, just like nothing bad ever happened. But then the false accusations started again. I reacted frustrated and pressed matters when she refused to communicate. In the last week we were together though, I had a lot of stresses at work, and I probably went overboard on some things, misunderstanding some things she said and caused a few arguments. But these were only ever over the phone while I was at work and things were fine by the evening when I got home. There were probably four of these occasions in the last week. But then, just as it was getting better, the worst thing happened. She found a girl's passport in my laptop bag. This belonged to a girl who left it at my birthday party over a year ago, but I forgot to return it and has been left in my laptop bag. She immediately assumed the worst and said I'd been sleeping with this girl. I had been living with my girlfriend for a few weeks at that point (leaving my flat and life in London and commuting three hours everyday so I could be living with her). She threw me out that evening and I had to quickly find a new place to live back in London. Things since then have been extremely painful for both of us.
On advice of my therapist to not endanger me coming into contact with her so as not to destabilise myself feeling better, I had her barred from our local nightclub so she wouldn't be there when I was there. But she tried to get in anyway and got really upset when she got turned away and texted me saying I was ruining her life. We talked on the high street and I got her unbarred and we spent the night together, went back to mine after, and we slept together - it was perfect, just like we'd never been apart. Next day, I was at hers and her kids' dad turned up to drop the kids off. After nearly getting in a punch-up with him, he told me he slept with her last week! She admitted it. I left distraught, but went back later for answers. She told me she did it to try and get over me, she said it didn't work though, she regrets it, she hated it anyway, etc. But I was more hurt by the fact she then slept with me again without telling me about it. She's been apologing profusely since saying it meant nothing with her ex, she missed me so much and that's why she slept with me, she says everything reminds her of me - she can't even go the cinema with her friend or play Scrabble without thinking of me! But I told her some harsh home truths about herself and her life and she got really upset because she knows it's true - that she's got two kids she struggles with, no friends, no job, complete inability to show affection, can't cook, lazy, distrusting and suspicious of everyone, nasty and vexatious at times without good reason, and always tries to use her kids as an excuse for it all when other mums with more kids get on with it fine. I told her I'm not trying to be nasty, I just want her to know that I know all this about her yet am with her because I see something special and different beyond all that and was willing to bring her out of the hole she's in because I love her dearly and care for her. This all obviously upset her and she agrees with it all; but no one has ever put it to her like that before. But I told her that despite hurting me beyond imagination, I can forgive her; but I'm completely confused and so is she.
I love her more than anything, but the pain is becoming physical as well as emotional. Yesterday, I went for Christmas lunch with work, and I just sat silent at the restaurant table the whole time MSN'ing with her. I could barely eat any of the food. In fact, during the main course, I just started to burst out crying. I held it in, stood up quickly, nearly knocked everything off the table, and ran to the toilet and spent five minutes in there crying my eyes out. The only giveaway when I got back was my bloodshot eyes. I can't eat anything. I had an egg sandwich last night and it made me sick. And I keep heaving all the time. I've never ever had pain like this. Even now sat at my desk, I'm holding back tears and heaving every so often. I can barely concentrate on my work.
...
I hope we can be together by Christmas, being without her at Christmas would make Christmas meaningless, for both of us - she can't even afford presents for her kids. I want to be there for her and her kids. They mean the world to me, and I know we can have a happy Christmas together. I do stupid things sometimes, all guys do, especially when frustrated and angry and bitter and hurt, especially after what she did to me. It's turned my world upside-down. I would never hurt her, I would never meaningfully cause her pain. All I want is for all our pain to stop and I know it would if we were together and talked through our problems. Might take a few days to get back to normal, but what's a few days for a lifetime of happiness? She told me last night that she told her sister she loves me and wants to get back with me. She can't eat anything, she's on antidepressants. I feel just as hurt too. But she said she's confused and needs time to think. She's only ever had one boyfriend before me (dad of her kids), and she said she realises she never really loved him after she fell in love with me. But, am I flogging a dead horse? Should I try and move on? Is it more trouble than it's worth? I don't have the patience to wait a few weeks. I'll go out my mind. And it's so difficult to break contact with the availability of e-mail, MSN, mobile phones, knowing she'll be hanging out at the same places. I just don't know what to do...
I got answers to this question on the website and I post them here now for the benefit of anyone interested or going through anything similar. The whole thing is here:
http://www.dearcupid.org/question/after ... me-is.html
If you've read this far, then this is where my advice comes in now that I am part of the community and have read The Game, etc. I was a lost soul after my relationship with my ex-girlfriend. But as I read back at what I wrote on dearcupid.org, I feel I am reading about a stranger having all those emotions and that heartache inside. I feel none of that now, and it has been less than a year since the whole ordeal. Why? How? I went out and fucked a whole load of other girls - actually not that many, but I just looked up a couple of exes and paid a revisit there Wink And I concentrated on work, and, more than anything, time is the best healer. And the worst thing you can do is sit on the couch wondering what the fuck happened. Get out there, catch up with old friends, go out drinking with your regular friends, chat to other girls, get validated get validated get validated!
I was back on track within a matter of two or three months, and as hard as it is, you have to resist going back there if it's a lost cause as it is only going to set you back any progress you might've made. My therapist told me this... and she was right.
But let's get to the relationship itself. Where did I go wrong? It's simple really. I succumbed to her every whim. When she gave me a hard time, I would go running. I travelled two hours across London and Surrey to convince her I love her late on a weeknight when I had work in the morning. Don't ever let your work suffer because of a girl. No girl is worth losing a good job/career over! And I risked that. And each time I gave in to her woes, she had me wrapped a little bit tighter around her finger, and that's a vicious circle. If you recognise that this is happening in a relationship, reverse it! Whatever it takes, reverse that process. YOU need to get back in control. A relationship should be equal, and it's alright you knowing this, but your girlfriend might not think like that, and she'll gladly take the upper hand if she can, because she doesn't realise how destructive that will eventually be and how resentful she'll eventually be of you. As Mystery taught Style in the book, sometimes to get the girl, you have to risk losing the girl. And that applies in a relationship just as much as it applies in a sarge. You need to have that chat with a girl if things are going a little wayward. Get things back on track before it becomes too much for both of you to handle.
What else? I hid too much from her. Even though I was completely innocent as in never cheating on her, I was inconspicuous with things and far too careful with what I showed on Facebook. I was afraid of showing anything at all that would make her worry or be suspicious of anything. This had a detrimental effect. If she ever did see something slightly ominous, she'd flag it up, and cause shit about it, and my over-reaction would only fuel the matter worse.
I have been in a serious relationship since and dated several girls. And I am now completely open about my interactions with other girls in such a matter-of-fact way that they can now never accuse me of anything they might inadvertently find out.
This is how I should have approached my relationship from the outset, and will always be how I approach relationships in future. It's the best advice I can give. Be frank, open and honest. It truly is the best policy, as cliché as that sounds.
Ciao.
CHAT
