I think you're right, I'm definitely gonna make a move at the next meeting. I don't think the window of opportunity has closed yet but it probably will if I don't make a move soon.

I'm sorry mate, but I think it's just time you fuck her already.

Just be like, "playtime is over" and grab her by the back of the neck/head and pull her in and kiss her. Pull her in close and make it one of those typical romance story kisses whose "tension has been building throughout the whole story and culminates in that final and long awaited embrace". That would be her perspective obviously, not yours.

There comes a time when you just need to do what you know you need to do. Not to mention that she'll probably get off on it and you'll be fucking the shit out of her on her desk within five minutes.

If she gently pushes you away and says "mmmm, stop" you're in, if she says "STOP" apologize, tell her "I'm sorry I just couldn't resist myself anymore, you're just so damn <---Insert adjective/noun combination here--->, I think I should go now." And then you're off to the next girl. I just don't think you should let yourself feel confused about the situation anymore, and know exactly where you stand.

Alright, seriously remember that, "playtime is over." And let us know how it turns out.

- TD out

_________________
"Send me a red-head,
Send me a brunette,
Send a blonde to me.
When I unwind, I'm colorblind,
They're all the same to me."

Yeah I definitely missed the biggest window of opportunity last week. I don't know what the fuck I was thinking. You guys are totally right and I'm kicking myself in the ass now. That's my biggest problem, that I let windows of opportunity pass.

I saw her yesterday. She was more official seeming, although still far from exactly professional. (What I mean is, she was more professional than she has been the last couple of weeks, but still far far less professional than is normal for a therapist and a client.) She had an appointment right after mine though, and she kept him waiting for about 15 minutes talking to me. We scheduled next week such that I'll be the last person there.

We started talking about our situation at the very END of the discussion (before that we were just shooting the shit), and she said she wished I had brought it up earlier and that she'd figure she'd let ME bring it up if I wanted to. So we said we'll discuss it next week.

She did bring up that she really enjoyed talking to me on chat but she couldn't do that anymore. She said she reviewed her own guidelines and regulations and that she could already lose her job for stuff she's done, and that it's career suicide for her. She's freaked out as hell.

So I was kind of pissed at myself after the appointment yesterday.

BUT she texted me this morning, saying happy birthday (it's my birthday today), and also asking if I have any immediate (i.e. before next week) questions on the notes she keeps on our appoinments. I mentioned that I forgot to give her the mixtape I made her yesterday, and asked if I could drop it off to her today. She said I could do it after she gets off of work and she also said that she can show me the notes. Which makes me think that she brought them up so that we'd have an excuse to see each other before next week.

So I'm gonna go over to her office once I'm off of work today. I definitely gotta make a move quick. Hopefully today'll be my lucky day, since she will be done with work with no one to bother her. It's my bday after all!

Any advice on getting windows of opportunity to REopen once you've missed them?

haha she's going to show you some "notes" , nice!
uh, and it's your birthday man, you're in if you don't fuck something up.
But then again, if she's serious about her job she might not want to seeing as she could have her licence revoked, but it's worth a try.
Go caveman!
And I like the idea from the other guy, just go for it.
Tell us how it goes!

Just Ride the Snake man, stop thinking so much.

Now go fuck your therapist! lol

- TD out

_________________
"Send me a red-head,
Send me a brunette,
Send a blonde to me.
When I unwind, I'm colorblind,
They're all the same to me."

howd it go, happy birthday by the way

lol he's probably riding the snake SPAM

_________________
Failure was never an option


Because girls don't like sex.. Yeah RIGHT!
Why else do you think girls have P*ssies

Okay so this is what happened.

I went in, we she showed me the notes. Then we talked about our whole situation. We ended up talking for about an hour. She wouldn't really tell me how she felt about the situation for a long time. She kept basically saying that there are rules, and that the rules are there for a reason, and that she felt extremely guilty about letting our relationship get so personal. And that there's nothing that it can add to the therapeutic relationship. (Obviously all stuff I know -- I'm not an idiot.) And that I could find a new therapist if I want, but she thinks that we can get back into more of a normal routine again.

After a LOT of prodding, I finally got her to say a little bit about how she FELT about the situation (aside from all the professional shit). She said that it's hard for her to separate her feelings about it from the guilt she feels (profesionally). But she did say that she found herself very drawn to the situation, that she has been friendlier than most psychologists are with other patients but never anything like this, and that it's difficult for her to stay within normal professional boundaries with me and it sometimes feels very unnatural to her. BUT she was very adamant that we have to do that, and that we could do that. She had to leave after the hour was up because the psychologist she shares the office with was scheduled to use it. (I saw her on the way out.) She wouldn't let me walk out with her. I was visibly very frustrated (mistake on my part but I couldn't help it) and asked her if we could talk about it before Monday because I wanted to get it all settled. She said no.

Where to go from here?

I'm thinking I'm gonna play it real cool for a few more sessions. Say I understand where she's coming from (which I do), say I agree (which I do, at least partially), etc. And not try to walk out of the office with her or anything and see what SHE does. If she starts to reinitiate unprofessional contact with me then obviously there is still more work to be done. If not, then she clearly is able to keep with her code and there's nothing else I can really do.

I'm thinking (and I've talked to several women about this, and they agree) that she will almost definitely reinitiate unprofessional contact with me. She says it feels very natural for her to be unprofessional with me (and I'd know this even if she didn't tell me it, since it shows in how she's been acting). It'll be difficult for her to keep the boundaries clear. How often does anyone ever have a clean break from someone their involved in a very emotionally intense situation with, unless they completely stop seeing each other for some time? I've never seen it happen. So I'm guessing that the same thing will happen here. It's obvious she's very drawn to me given everything she's done so far.

Also I'm thinking that the window of opportunity I saw last week was NOT as big of a window of opportunity as I was thinking. I probably could have gotten a kiss in but she DEFINITELY would have flipped the lid and made me leave and I'd be in basically the same situation I'm in now.

Any thoughts/advice?

Also I gave her the mixtape, which had a lot of real interesting lovey hip hop/R&B kind of songs on it (that's the kind of music she's into). She was real excited about it. That's something of a wildcard at the moment... I'll be interested in seeing what she says about it.

the mixtape is very good. Every time she listens to it she will think about you.

She seems defensive right now, protecting her job. I think you should not be clingy at all, or needy because I think this will increase her bitchshield even more.
I think you should look for how to get past bitchshields, i think thats kind of similar to this situation.

How did you end it yesterday, frustrated and agitated? I hope not. I hope you left a good impression and THEN let her go. Because this will make her come to you quicker.

For now, I guess leave her alone. What do you feel about the situation by the way?
Do whatever feels good.

I secretly hope that she will come around and that you sex her

~ steke

_________________
Failure was never an option


Because girls don't like sex.. Yeah RIGHT!
Why else do you think girls have P*ssies

Oh another thing

Make sure you communicate high value, things that she likes about you through facebook.

I mean, she will definately check out your facebook "secretly" to see how you are doing.

Make sure you look desirable.

_________________
Failure was never an option


Because girls don't like sex.. Yeah RIGHT!
Why else do you think girls have P*ssies

Well... in my opinion you are doing it wrong. I mean I am no mPUA, so ofc I might be absolutely wrong, but I think going cold on her and waiting for her to reinitiate is the wrong strategy. Let me explain: Ask yourself, why is she attracted to you? Because you provide an intellectually satisfying conversation? NO. Because you are the man of her dreams and she wants to spend the rest of her life with you? NO. Because she has no partner or is breaking up with her partner? NO.

The plain fact is that she is IRRATIONALLY attracted to you, probably because you are younger and sort of the forbidden fruit, if you will. I can guarantee you that anytime she analyzes it in her head for a longer period of time her conclusion is - and always will be - that it is NOT A GOOD IDEA. Therefore, if your plan is to bone her, what you dont want is her to spend days and days analyzing it. What you want is the exact opposite - to get her into a position where she feels strongly attracted to you and doesnt have the time to analyze it.

From what you wrote I think your best time to make a definite move has already passed, but you definitely still have a good shot. What I would recommend is getting the last appointment of any day (so you can stay in the office longer and undisturbed). The first half of the appointment just talk professionally, even ignoring any unprofessional comments from her (this will be a sort of neg and will make her want you more, trust me). Then, for the second half, tell her you want to be the psychiatrist and get her on the sofa. When you get her there DONT talk about your "relationship" and how you are going to deal with it. This just gets her to start thinking rationally. What you want to do is to get her IN THE MOOD. First ask her to talk about what she enjoys. Then run the cube or something similar on her. When you get to the horse say something like she has unfulfilled desires / needs a strong man / likes sex... etc. Gradually build on the good sensations. Initiate some kino, accidentaly brushing against her at first, then touching her at certain moments when you are telling her something. Ask her to describe the feeling when she is attracted to a man. Tell her to imagine that feeling, to imagine it is growing etc etc (dont do it if you feel like you cant pull it off). Just build on that. Eventually just fucking man up, lock the door and make your move. She will melt and her career or husband will be the last things on her mind.

Feelings wane over time, you need to act on want you have now.

This is the biggest mistake I made. I was visibly frustrated at the end when I left. Not infuriated or anything but... frustrated.

As far as how I feel about the situation. I feel that she's extremely immature and this whole game is making me like her less. She obviously has been unprofessional, she continues to be unprofessional even while saying we should be professional, and she obviously likes me a lot. And then she arbitrarily follows her code when she feels like it. (Or I guess not arbitrarily, but whenever she gets nervous.) Girls like that are a dime a dozen, really. BUT I'm still intrigued, just because I've invested so much in the situation. And she's fine as hell... I'd give her a 9 at the least... and I have a feeling she's really good in bed. And we really do click in our conversations.

Same here, as you can see! It's all good, I appreciate your advice just the same.
I kind of agree and kind of disagree. We really do click in our conversations. We have a ton in common. She has mentioned this countless times. And I suspect that she's NOT happy with her husband. He is a corporate lawyer, and my understanding is that they work on average 60+ hours/week. She has mentioned that she's by herself all day and therefore finds herself using the internet a lot because she doesn't have enough human interaction.

I'm not saying she's in love with me or anything like that, but I think there is definitely a romantic aspect that goes beyond the whole forbidden fruit thing. I also get the impression from her personality that she is a bit of a romantic.

(This is not to say that the forbidden fruit aspect isn't also there. I'm just saying it's not the only thing going on, as far as I can tell.)
I completely agree with you on this. I'm sure even with the romantic connection she still thinks it's a terrible idea. (Which it is!!!)
Thanks for the advice, I think you're right. I had a plan that goes in a kind of similar direction with different techniques. I'll post it when I get a chance. I still have until Monday. And I'm sure that this time I have the last appointment.

Good luck!!

Ok so here's the update on this crazy situation.

So I went to my appointment on Tuesday. She kept asking about the mixtape. She said she loved it and listened to it constantly for the last week. She said she wanted to tell me she liked it via e-mail or chat but realized that she should wait until the appointment. (It was currently on her phone during the appointment, which she showed me.)

She really was trying to figure out if there was some message or story being told in the mixtape. Obviously there was, since they were all romantic songs and half of them were about relationship issues and a lot of them mentioned women with husbands. (Haha!) She was extremely touched by it. She wanted me to tell her that I put all those songs on it because I was into her (she didn't say this explicitly, but it was obvious from the direction she was going) and I wouldn't give it to her. She got extremely frustrated. It was a repeat of the previous session, when I came close to telling her how I felt about her and all she'd say was "Okay", except in reverse. I eventually gave her enough to think it was about her but was also vague enough for her to have some doubts and reservations. She was basically satisfied by the end of the conversation but I'm sure she'll still be thinking about it.

Anyway, she didn't walk out with me. But she did do the appointment longer than 1 hour. (More like an hour and a half.)

The key thing to me is that she's still trying to rationalize everything from a professional point of view, even while she's being unprofessional. So she mentioned that we were going over the time limit, and she said "But you were a little late, and I'm only doing this so we can eventually get back on track, cuz we have a lot to talk about." And after mentioning how it's too bad that we can't see each other on more friendly terms, she mentioned that I could start seeing her twice a week. Which makes no professional sense, since she had said before (several months ago) that I'm doing much better and it was up to me whether or not I even wanted to continue with therapy. Clearly she just wants to see me more. She did mention that it feels like a long time since we've seen each other. I said "hmm, well I'll think about it. But find out the place and time and I'll get back to you."

She also read me her personal notes on our sessions. (Last time I saw her she read me the official session notes, which go on record. What she read me this time were personal notes that are not on record, cannot be subpoenaed, etc.) She told me it's basically like her diary and she never reads it to anyone and was not planning on reading it to me. It went on and on, clearly confused and struggling, about the nature of our relationship and how it's normal to feel a strong pull toward a more than professional relationship, but there are a lot of great things about strong therapeutic relationships, too. And then there was a sentence in it, something along the lines of, "And if someone really cares about you, they have to respect your profession and occupation and your decisions in that area of your life." I laughed and asked her if that was directed at me. She basically said yeah it was about me but she hadn't intended on reading it to me. So obviously she's concerned about whether or not I care about her.

Also she did mention to me at one point that even though we can't have a more than professional relationship, and she can't act in certain ways toward me, this does not mean that I'm not special to her, because her and I have a unique relationship that she doesn't have with anyone else. (!!!)

She also clearly doesn't like it when I have to leave and finds it hard to let me go.

The next day she sent me a text early in the morning saying "buenos dias :-)" and asking me if i wanted to meet with her on thursday. I responded: "You love to wake me up in the morning." She responded "Yes I secretly do :-)" Then I said yeah, I could meet with her. And after a while she said "Thanks for helping me test out my new office." (Rationalizing the second meeting again.) I said "What can I say, I'm a helpful guy" and she responded "Yes u r :-)" So as you can see she's again moving in a non-professional direction.

THEN (God this is too long, but bear with me), I sent a message to the anonymous facebook profile (who I'm pretty sure is the therapist) asking her if she could recommend any songs by the other famous person with my name (remember this is ostensibly why she added me in the first place), because I'm making a mixtape for someone. She only referred me to the person's myspace page (which makes me think that the person doesn't even know his music), and then started inquiring greatly into the mixtape I'm making and who I'm making it for, if the girl is fine, all this shit. I keep being vague, vague enough for it to be her or perhaps someone else. She starts telling me that because I don't know her, I should tell her the details of the drama in my personal life. It's hard to imagine that random person would be so interested in my personal life and the mixtape in specific. (Also note that the person has the EXACT same typing style as the therapist.)

The last message I sent said that she was being a little bossy in trying to pry into my personal life. And I said that I would never open up to someone who hadn't already opened up to me. (The purpose of writing this was for the therapist to think she'd have to open up to me more for me to open up to her at the next meeting. Because she was clearly bothered by my aloofness at the last meeting.)

So anyway that's it for now.

Any ideas on where I should go? Should I just keep playing the game, alternately moving closer but then back, until she trips up and does something? That's basic basically my plan at this point, but also to drop hints (without saying it directly) that I get kind of tired of situations and lose interest when people play too many games. Also I've brought in some jealousy aspects, telling her about various old flings that have suddenly reappeared in my life and been dropping major hints that they're still into me. (This is all true.)

Good idea? Bad? Basically I intend on playing it like any other time I'd be gaming a girl, but MUCH more subtle on the push-pulls because she's so much more sensitive, for both professional and (presumably) personal reasons (she's clearly got huge issues).

dude i spent almost one hour in this post with the hope that at the end of it there would be some great ending!

You are so over analyzing this situation that i think things will go wrong the more you wait. because it is affecting you and coming thru your conversations. My advice is to get some "cojones" and kiss her.

After that i would recommend a freeze out for no more than a week to get her thinking a lot about you. PEACE