In my opinion, pick up, or rather "the game" is all about manipulation. Otherwise you would come and say: "hey, you can stay singing happy christian songs or have sex with me, choice is yours." And with this "honest, eye-opening" approach you wouldn't get any, I am almost 100% certain.

If you believe this is not manipulation, do it in the honest way like suggested above ("here are your options"), and please let me know how it went

PS. Regarding "being able to pull a girl anyhere anytime" - that's ok, as long as you don't destroy their lives, their believs, they virginity they wanted to keep for a man they will marry.

Rene, that is where you are wrong. At least your concept of manipulation. You can't force someone to do something they don't want to do.

Its as I said before, Christians live in a dogmatically controlled world. They are told they can't have sex before marriage for no reason, and no scriptural reason either. To present a new way of thinking to a "good Christian girl" is not wrong either. It becomes her CHOICE on whether or not to agree with you. That is the whole point of opening up a new perspective for her is that she can make the conscience decision.

Now, I for one do NOT solicit guys using these ideas just to sleep with a girl. Because, nine chances out of ten its going to backfire when you only use her for sex. In that event she will feel buyer's remorse for having changed her life's beliefs and then the person who influenced her to take off.

Ok, to make the long story short - my perspective and opinion is based on one fact from my life - I am a Christian, most of my friends are, some of them (few, but still) are virgins willing to wait till the marriage or at least once they find Mr Right.

And it's not only about what priest is saying during Sunday's holy mess. It's much more deep and complicated, including family's and friends' influence. If you are not Christian, you may think "it's just a rule from the book". But trust me on that - for many people it is much more deep than you can imagine.

And please - do not think that by showing them sexual way you open their eyes - most of them are fully aware of their sexuality and they are under the constant pressure - because all they mates are having sex and talking about it, while trying to embarass virgins for being virgins. They are not stupid. They are not bling. They are strong.

But thanks for sharing your point of view, I respect that.


PS. In terms of manipulation. True - most of the times you can't make someone to do something they don't want. But the manipulation is about playing with the emotions at some very short period of time. Buyers remorse is exactly the term. If you live in UK, do visit Phones4U store to take a part in hard selling experience. They do manipulate people every day, and they make people want to buy something, but the same person comes back home later and often feel used and cheated. At that time they were manipulated and wanted to buy phone, few hours later they have remorse.

'Waiting unil marriage' is a very inetersting concept that often leads people to butt heads. I wan to know whether these Christian girls have boyfriends. Are their boyfriends too virgins. That would be a long wait for the guy

Rene, I am a Christian and don't believe in the concept. It comes down to interpretations of the bible vs. what a priest/pastor tells you. The fact of the matter is there is many people who don't explore other perspective because they are afraid to. I have never had a single person be able to give me a legit reason to not have sex before marriage.

Because it's a sin. Bible is a book that needs to be interpret, and the Christian Church clearly defines sex before marriage as a sin (or maybe even mortal sin, I'm not sure). But with no doubts - sin. And Sin = hell.

Pick Up should be win/win situation. If anyone manipulates a girl, not paying attention to her believs, only to get laid (win/loose situation), he might be the greatest PUA I've ever known... Pick Up Asshole I mean.

I think many of you are missing a vital point here: not all christian girls are as christian as they SEEM. Long story short:

Family pressure. "Public" behaviour. Get them alone and be casual. They might be a completely different person. Try it!

But Rene who tells them that sex before marriage is a sin> its society, family, church and the Bible. But soo many people have been having free sex all the time and they tend to go on to live a very happy married life. Are they all sinners going to hell ?? !!

I dont think we are talking about manupulating a woman. A girl is smart enough to figure out what she wants and wht she doesnt !

So as a PUA and a seduction 'guru' I simply offer her the option of having sex with me and enjoying the pleasures of her life that she had been missing what is the harm there. She could choose to turn me down but no one is manipulating her a PUA is just offering her.

Rene, that comment on the bible saying its sin is crap. There is no scripture that forbids sex before marriage. The only statement concerning sex is to abstain from "immoral sex" - adultery.

Guys, shhhh.... don't attack me and don't explain me. I only told you common point of view of many religious people (girls especially), for I come from VERY religious country. I don't mind sex before marriage (I used to some years ago, not anymore), but also I respect the people who does.

As I said - there is a lot of pressure on some of those girls (church, family, friends, loved ones), some of they keep their virginity till their 30's... just think of it... so many years of abjurations. If any of you think "I will show her what is sex, I am going to be her Messiah, show her new Ligh of Life!"... it's just so naive and very selfish. I explained that in previous posts and see no reason to repeat myself.

Guys - just don't be assholes! There is so many HB's EVERYWHERE ANYTIME! Why would you want Christian virgin? HB's are to hard to pick up? Lack of seduction skills?

Have a nice day!

you see seduction as manipulations I see religion as manipulation, that is where we differ

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Can't they BOTH be manipulation?

yup they both are but not in the way you would expect. People need to be accepted, loved and feel a part of something. In that respect they are very similar concepts

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Have to admit, I'm not into the idea of being with a Christian chick. My personal taste and opinions could cause conflicts.