Scenario: cute coffee shop blonde (yes, another one, I'm developing a caffeing addiction) has been kino'd, DHV'ed and generally had her buying temperature raised by TF over the past week. She expresses strong IOI's.

Today she is talking to boring AFC guy. Up bounds TF "You make a lovely couple. He's the perfect guy for you. HB protests "There is only guy who is perfect for me." TF "Who?", HB "Maybe-you", TF "What would your boyfriend think?"

I go and sit down, and later I call HB over and ask for her to come for a quick drink.
She says "No, can't today", I say "Maybe Later?" (is there a less AFC way to ask this?), she says "Maybe. I tell you what. You give me three reasons why I should?" I have a time constraint and leave.

Now there's no way I'm jumping through this hoop into AFC-land. But, simply refusing point-blank or ignoring could cause the whole thing to stagnate as I doubt she'd be willing to just submit and lose face.

As I recall Mystery says its OK to jump through a hoop if she jumps through one of yours, so I'm thinking I should try and get her to qualify herself first? But even then, assuming I can get her to do that, and I'm not sure how, what are the three reasons I come up with? She hasn't even given me the chance to get to know her properly in the first place. Any ideas how to deal with this scenario?

First, instead of saying, "Maybe later?" you say, "alright, another time" or something to that effect because you want to state it as assumed that she will comply as she won't be busy all the time and you know she wants to hang out with you.

Second, you can either make her jump through a hoop for you and then give her a few reasons that she'll accept, without sounding like you tried really hard to pursuade her. Alternatively you can just tell her 3 joking reasons and that's what I'd suggest doing. For example, next time you see her ask her what night she's free (this way you don't keep getting told that she's busy because that makes it more likely she'll say she's busy the next time too even if she isn't, it's a "no ladder" rather than a "yes ladder") and then you TELL her that you guys are gonna go grab a drink that night. If she brings up the 3 reasons thing again, give her a look that lets her know how silly you think she's being and say, "Why wouldn't you? I'm the perfect guy for you remember. "

*** Note: the last part is a statement, not a question. "remember." not "remember?"

Wow. That's pure gold. I'm in your debt, sir.

"Maybe. I tell you what. You give me three reasons why I should?"

I would look her up and down and say...'Sweetie, It isn't THAT big of a deal, I was just trying to be nice. I think someone needs cream with their coffee, you better go before you get in trouble lol'...and leave it at that. Make sure you come across as playful, you don't want to destroy any flirty banter going on.

She will get the subtle hint that you are not going to jump through hoops.

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Keep people off-balance and in the dark by never revealing the purpose behind your actions. - Robert Greene

Ok, you asked her to come there. You should just tell her that the opportunity exists in case she was wondering. "Hey, you cant sit there, thats lame. Theres an open place over there with your name on it... Your name is Marilyn right? No? Shit you remind me of that Marilyn.... Aaaah, really famous, did a couple of... Manson."

Second, the give me 3 reasons.

"Eeer, what?"
"Youll get them tomorrow I promise."
"And thats how you lose interest..."
"Note to self, do not date this girl (Yes I stole it but it fits here)"

Back up . . .

You've already got her going and you're getting IOI's; you're obviously more than acquaintances. So regardless of whether it's a slip or an intentional statement, when a girl says something like, "MAYBE-YOU", you've got to POUNCE on it. Continuing this back and forth clowning around at this point won't do anything for you. To me, "maybe-you" means, "I want to suck your cock." - This was an invite for you to get your ass moving ask her out. You dropped it . . . so she does her little test.

And I would also suggest that you're past the "coffee together" stage. Hell, she works there. . . What kind of date is this? It's like asking a dentist to do your teeth for a date. And forget the 3 reason thing. . . Focus on taking her out for a fun time. You go, "Hey, I hear the _____ band is playing on Saturday. How about we meet up for a quick drink first and go together?" (You do something like this and 'm taking 10 to 1 odds, she won't even bring up the "3 reasons". Why would she? You already passed her little test by acting like her "perfect" man and taking her out.

You make some good points here.

To be honest I was just totally shocked she basically took the iniative and escalated herself (maybe a sign I should speed things up). As an rafc I just never expect women to hit on me, because they er...didn't.

While I agree with you about quitting screwing around, Practical question: how do you "pounce" without breaking frame? I can't think of how you can move seamlessly from a fake IOD to asking her out, at least without seeming way too eager.
I did actually ask her out within the next minute, but I'm guessing the seconds involved were critical...

About the date thing, the idea was to go to a pub rather than have coffee. I agree, still not very imaginative.

I'm 35 (she's 27), I'd likely be the oldest guy at anything resembling at a cool gig, or a club or anything similar. And I'd feel out of place even if I didn't look at it.

Any alternative suggestions for venues? Something a bit more cerebal perhaps, where my age would be a DHV rather than a DLV?

On the first part where she said mabye you.
You should not have said anything about her B.F You should have started qualifying her.
Or started somthing interesting.
Well who said I was interested in you anways playfully or something along that.
taker her to work lol I did this once at chilles I had the waiter join us for like 15 min.
That still isn't attractive.
Once she gave you the IOI of maybe you it should have went to a whole new level but you basically started over when you asked her to sit down and join you.
You should have said omg look at you.... you had better sit down cause you look exhausted from all of you hard work. Then did some Smalltalk and ejecting with a # even a kiss with how she said “maybe you “you could have definitely gotten a cool little peck out of her.
Showing comfort in kino for ur day 2.

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BOSS DK
http://facebook.com/kcdclan<--- myspace
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1. Obviously, no need to be surprised any more. Obviously, you have game. You just need to tighten it down and get more focused towards meeting your objectives. Getting a few "ha ha's" out of the girl isn't your goal . . . it's just one of the means to an end.

2. The girls didn't hit on you before because you didn't hit on them. Women need those doors open for them. Once you open those doors, they can be quite flirty.(As you found out) But you need to keep opening the next "door" to keep that energy going.
Myth Buster: Frames? What? You have one frame. You're a man attracted to a pretty girl. There are no reasons to skirt around this issue and definitely no need to make excuses for it. The "boyfriend" thing was probably not the best way to go but so what?

Pounce: This is kinda like tightening down on a screw. First you find that little hole and you ease the screw in with your hand. You keep going until it's seated well then you take out the screw driver to tighten it down. Those little jokes keep everything light and fun but when you hear something like, "Maybe-You", it's time to take out that screw driver and TIGHTEN that shit down!

Examples: She goes, "Maybe you" and you go, "Only Maybe?"(And grab her hand) "Well, there's only way to find out. . . A picnic lunch at the ______ park. How about Saturday?"

Or, "Only a maybe . . . hmmm. . .I've been told the way to figure these things out is with a "first kiss" . . .

Depending on how things are going, you can go lighter or heavier but you need to crank it up. And if she ever gets rattled and steps back, go ahead and let her . . .

Her: Oh my God? You're very sexual" . . . or "Are you asking me out on a date?" . . ."You're so forward!"

You: Woh, woh, what do you mean? I'm a good ol' fashioned guy. We're not kissing until at least the 3rd date. OK . . .maybe the second. Well . . . no, if things go great, the first date . . . But definitely, no sex until much later. I'm conservative like that.

Her: Blah, blah, blah (It doesn't matter what she says here. If she speaks up, it means she's speaking up knowing that you and her will eventually have sex. Her speaking up is compliance)

Then you sneak in another forward advancing topic. Keep going!!!!

You're on cruise control from here because now kissing and sex is always a possibility. - By the way, I don't think I have EVER waited until the 3rd date no matter how many times I tried to "confirm" my conservative style. . . ha ha ha . . .
It is a good idea to offer her more than her 20 something counterparts. Take control. You can do what ever the hell you want to do. You tell her it's fun and it is. What the hell do we really do in life? We wake up, walk around, eat, shit, and sleep. The only thing that give these mundane acts some flavor is WHO we choose to do these things with.(Less the shitting together part) . . . get his straight: YOU ARE the fun.

You can go to that same damn pub and drink the same damn beer but it can be,

"Hey, how about a drink together after work?" .... OR . . . it can be . . .

You: "There's this pub where the bartender draws out little clovers on top of the pints. When I ordered one, he drew out a little heart. You think that means something?..."

Both: ha ha ha, blah, blah, blah . . .

"Hey, let's go together on tomorrow night. Let's see if he makes you a heart or a clover. I'm betting that I get the heart again . . ."

Now you just turned a damn beer at a damn pub into a mini-adventure. You can do this with EVERYTHING in life. You offer girls this . . . and they will buy into it.
Sounds like a perfect match to me. But then again, so would a 22 year old or a 50 year old. (I'm 37 and have gone much younger than 27 . . . and also older than 50)

You are the star of your show and you can cast who ever the hell you want to cast to be your "supporting actress" and you can choose which ever location to shoot your film. Sure, you don't want to go to a video game arcade but man, you can do what ever the hell you want to do. This is your life . . .
Women love to say that Steven Hawking is sexy but how many blow jobs you think the guy gets? Cerebral isn't sexy. Fun is sexy. A guy taking charge is sexy. A guy sweeping a girl off her feet is sexy. Confidence is sexy. Being SEXY is sexy. After you get to know her intimately . . . then you can showcase your brain all you want.

Above all, don't let her turn you into a "little kid": "Do this, do that, Here are 3 questions, how will you make me happy? How will you do this and that . . ." No, no, no . . . You dictate your shit to her. You turn HER into a little kid because well, she is. She's into you because you're older and more centered than 20 something kids. It's not, "maybe Saturday or maybe later." It's "How about SATURDAY . . ."

She goes, I can't make it and you go, "Too bad . . . another time." (You don't let little kids dictate and change your VERY IMPORTANT ADULT SCHEDULE.) Little kids who get away with this shit with their "relaxed" parents often begin running their show and lose respect for their parents. They begin dictating their shit to their parents but it doesn't mean they love them more or they respect them more . . . in fact, it could be just the opposite.

Have fun . . .

Finally got to talk her again, tried the "When are you free?" approach straight out.

She said "I am never free" and simply walked away. Later she came back and we talked, she started asking me about myself, which seemed to go reasonably well. I mentioned she was annoying the hell out of me, since she was obviously attracted to me (she nodded and smiled here), but we never got it together.

I suggested a picnic (it is really hot here today) as I was getting IOI's and we seemed to be bonding. She just said "I am never free and besides I don't know your name", again walking a way into a wedding party that just walked into the shop and put her beyond reach.

I am really getting f***** off with the situation now and would be relieved if I could just put this down as a learning experience. But, she is a HB9 and there is a definite and stated physical attraction, so I'm not sure whether I should next her.

Well she is playing you right now....you better bet your game straight or just walk away and learn you game before you gofor a 9

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BOSS DK
http://facebook.com/kcdclan<--- myspace
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Didn't you read my post?

Women do not fuck wussies and you wussed out big time. 19 year guys do this all the time with 20 something chicks but how the hell does a 35 year old turn a 20 something year old KID into some "OLDER SISTER" figure?

Had this chick told you, "I just shaved my pussy for you and my hot 19 year old girlfriend is coming over tonight so I want you to come over and fuck both our brains out . . . " you would have BROKEN every schedule you had to make it to her house.

The point is . . . you want HER to break EVERYTHING she has planned (Believe me, she has NOTHING planned at all . . . EVER) to meet you.

In order to accomplish this, you need to narrow you shit down. You don't ask some little kid for her "schedule" so that you can WORK AROUND her schedule. God damn it man, I don't care what you say . . . this is a coffee house waitress with no fucking life and YOU are an ADULT with adult business to work, friends to meet, plenty of chicks to fuck, and you should be obliging her with a little bit of the time you have left to suck your cock. Instead . . . you acted like some little lonely kid asking her, "Oh . . you're sooooooo coooooool . . .ANY TIME you have, I will do EVERYTHING for YOU!!!!!" This is borderline puke-up material. My God, if you were younger brother, I would have given you a swift kick in the ass!

MAN UP PLEASE!!!! As of now, she's treating you like a chump because you are ACTING like a chump. And you told her that you are annoyed with her?!?!?!? WTF?!?!

What does the big brother do to a little brother who says, 'Ohhhhhh. you are annoying me!!!!" I'll tell you what . . .the big brother gets high off of it and does whatever he did even more. As long as you keep acting like a big fucking wuss, expect this chick to continue treating you like a big fucking wuss. You'll always get what you deserve . . .

By the way, there is no such thing as an hb9, 10. 100 or whatever when you're talking about some little KID who work in a coffee shop. Jesus . . . get your head screwed on straight. This one should have been choking on your cock long ago.

No more games . . . never mind the IOI's and the other bullshit you think is "game". Start off with asking yourself, "Am I a man or a fucking chick?" Don't gloss over this very important question. . .because right now . . . had you not told us that you were a 35 year old MAN . . . based on what you wrote, I would have thought that you're a 17 year old chick. (I am totally serious) Once you've figured out that you're a man with BALLS, everything else will fall into place.

YOU SHOULD LISTEN TO HIM!
This post....

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BOSS DK
http://facebook.com/kcdclan<--- myspace
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