ok so thursday i was talkin with this girl, i knew her for a while now, we saw each other around, never really chilled or talked much until lately(we are seniors in HS) we have a class together, so we were talking and then i say that we should hang out saturday, she said maybe if u get lucky, so today is saturday and i txt her, here is our convo via txting

me:congratulation
she: on what?
me: ill be free after 6 and i decided to give u the honor of hanging out with me for a bit today =)
she: lol and i decide to give u the pleasure of saying i cant... i have a concert
me:didn't u say u have it on sunday?
she:noo today
me: so ur gonna be free sunday then?
she: duno maybe give me a call then
me: ill think about it
she: k u do that
me: and u go dance
SHE: ur pissing me off. dont both calling tom. goodbye

ok so where did i go wrong? i see a few spots where i slipped up a lil but i dun c where i made her pissed off,......
any help would be great

Righto, let's have a gander.
This bit's fine really, you might have mis-calibrated the "i'll give you the honor" thing, judging by the way she reacted, but all in all pretty good.

She seems to appreciate the break from monotony, and then values you enough to justify herself "I have a concert".




This is where you start to go wrong. By questioning it, you let her know you really wanted to hang out. By letting her know you thought she was free, you're really saying "I value you to the extent that i've put the effort in, to think this through, and plan it so that you'd be free".

Not the ideal frame, and does lower your value, lowering her attraction as well.

She still thinks highly enough of you to give you a reply though


Because of the previous statement, her attraction is lowered, and although she's still attracted enough to reply, she won't put as much effort in as before.

This time the message is straight to the point, no justification e.g "You probably heard wrong"

Alot of high value girl's wouldn't even justify this kind of text with a response. You've clarified you really want to see her, so much so you'll use her words against her in order to secure a meeting.

Without your previous text this could have been cocky & funny. But you already set the frame, and there's only one box this can now go in - needy.

The first text's build the attraction up - the third one lowered it closer to neutral, and this one dipped it below.

Though, she seem's like she's putting some faith in you and assuming your not on form. So she's gonna let you call her tomorrow and judge then.

This is where you really stick the nail in the coffin. You've lowered your value by being needy, and she's pretty much said "Hey, I know this guy's better than this, i'll give him the benefit of the doubt."

And you've just gone and said "Dunno if your worth it. Maybe", and basically been a jerk after she's put her faith in you.

Now she actually doesn't care, "K u do that"

"And you go dance " - After your the previous text, this make's it look like your trying to command her. She feels like your trying to say "I'm better than you, do what I say"

She's lost her temper now, and actually tells you to fuck off.


Now I can see EXACTLY what you were TRYING to do. You were trying to play it cool and be "alpha" and set up that suave "hey, i'm a cool guy, whatever" frame.

Despite the way it played out, you only made TWO mistakes. The first was incongruence. After showing you really wanted to hang out, you tried to switch to "hey i don't even give a fuck"

It seems like your a nice guy, slightly needy, who probably get's friend zoned occasionally, and you're trying to be the "cocky, I don't give a shit, whatever I get laid regularly" guy. (Or am i just projecting my past onto you here? )

Girls HATE incongruence. It DESTROYS comfort. It shows what you say isn't what you mean, so she'll never be able to trust what you say.

And secondly, you miscalibrated. Obviously you're still learning, and that's just part of it. No big deal.

Anyway, all in all. Not too bad. And now you know where to improve. And remember, you're not your actions. You can easily win this girl back if need be later.

Sarge on my friend, Sarge ON!

Wolfus.

at first i was gonna say fuck this bitch and you treated the shit out her life!! good job mate! haha!

but after reading wolfus' post, he's right. that's like me now. lol dont change it up on her

Good call wolfus! I have to agree. I myself have seen incongruence get the best of a good thing. My text game is a bit wittier than my actual spontaneous game and for that reason, I sometimes don't seem congruent. It will be something I need to work on myself.

"It seems like your a nice guy, slightly needy, who probably get's friend zoned occasionally, and you're trying to be the "cocky, I don't give a shit, whatever I get laid regularly" guy. (Or am i just projecting my past onto you here? )" - Wolfus

you know what?? your are actually right.. im still trying to learn PUA better and all, so i have been in the friend zone in the past but for like the past 7 months i haven't really gotten into a lot of friend zones.... some times my game goes the right way and everythiong falls into place for the night, but most of the time gets out of hand Still learning from every experience


ok so im working on the needy part,but how do i work on the incogruence part? cuz when she says like "i cant hang out with you" or anything liike that, how do i respond by not sounding that im not being needy,

and wolfus you said i could still get her back if need be... how would i go about doing that exactly? jus out of curiosty incase this kind of thng happens again.

thanks for the help man
Heartless KID

@CaptRow & Cellarman: Thanks for the feedback, good to know i'm on the right path.

@Heartless Kid, Let's start with incongruence, it's pretty easy.

Instead of trying to be someone else, and reacting a way you wouldn't normally. Respond as if you were talking to a friend. Because if your not needy, your natural response would be like responding to a friend. You don't place her on a pedestal, and simply reply like it's just another person to hang out with.

"Wanna hang out later? I'm free around 6."
"nooo got a concert later"
"Alright cool, don't do anything I wouldn't do "

OR

"Oh check you out. Anyone worth seeing? "
"Maddona! "
"Oh. "
"Shut up "

That's how i'd respond.

Basically everything about pick up, is operating on the assumption your just friends, even if you both know it's completely sexual. Girls need that sense of plausible deniability so when her friend's ask, she can say "We were just hanging out", and not come off as a slut.

That Alpha role you were trying to incorporate before, only works because it display's non neediness, and confidence. You can be yourself and still display these traits. That way you'll have all the benefit and still be congruent.

For example. Take your own thoughts, but think it through in your head, and then vocalize the result. That's all confident is. Be sure about your decisions. Indecisive people will vocalize the whole thought process, and umm and ahh as they decide. They'll question themselves in conversation because they've not finished thinking.

If you do this you'll be yourself, but you'll be your confident self. You'll tend to talk more in statements, rather than questions, because you already have the answer. You'll also be more sure of everything you do. and you'll exude leadership.

Most people don't do this, and are unconfident to an extent. It'll have a knock on effect of drawing people toward you. and following you. People don't like thinking, so they'll put off the decision & would much rather follow someone who's already made it, and knows what to do.

That's all alpha is. The rest is just personality.

As for getting a girl back, that's easy as well. Speak like friends, because you are. But don't assume comfort or attraction, because it's broken. Just start the pick up again by building the comfort and attraction, and then you'll be back to where you started.

There's 3 main metrics in social situations. Comfort (Rapport), Attraction (Social Value) and Arousal (How turned on she is. Or Seduction as mystery calls it)

These values start at neutral, by playing the game, we aim to build them up. Sometimes we fuck up and lower them back to base. Sometimes we fuck up and lower them to less than neutral, and create anger/hate etc.

But everything can always be solved by simply building them back up again.

The typical romance/drama/comedy often displays this perfectly.

Guy meets girl, build attraction, comfort, arousal.
Guy fucks up lowers these below neutral. (The starting value when you don't know someone).
Guy strives to get her to give him one more chance, but usually the comforts too low to listen.
Eventually the guy gets her to listen and builds these values back up again.
The guy never lowers these values to that extent again. Que Happy Ending.

Think that just about covers it for now. You're certainly displaying the right attitude, so keep it up and game on

Take it easy matey. Wolfus.

To have made it simple you shouldve did like this:
me:congratulation
she: on what?
me: ill be free after 6 and i decided to give u the honor of hanging out with me for a bit today =)
she: lol and i decide to give u the pleasure of saying i cant... i have a concert
me:didn't u say u have it on sunday?
she:noo today
you: Alright Ill let you get to practicing so you dont blow it for your band..lates!

/end

See how shes taking that trick tone with you, like its up to you to call, its up to you to make all the effort etc. etc. Id try to build up something in person that way shes less flakey and more willing.(unless thats how shes acting cause of other prior situations)

And as wolfus said,incongruence DAMN is this a simple but biggy. Like if your acting all hard this, im cool that, then your slipping up and she sees otherwise and sees its a front or fake...basically shooting yourself in the foot. A lot of guys will fail to this cause what proof do they have, they can talk the talk but can they walk the walk? Think about that when your out there.

I woulda done something like this.

me:congratulation
she: on what?
me: ill be free after 6 and i decided to give u the honor of hanging out with me for a bit today =)
she: lol and i decide to give u the pleasure of saying i cant... i have a concert
me: Oh is this the famous concert I've been hearing about? I heard it was the event of the year Good luck!


I think you dropped the ball the second you started questioning her agenda. If she says she can't don't be needy.

"Oh what really? Your lying to me! you just don't to hang out"

You might as well wrote that

Act like it's not a big deal. I think if you act like it's not a big deal, you can guage her response and find out if her intentions were genuine or not. She might have responded with

"I'm really sorry. We'll hang out next time though for sure!"

You would have known. Most people usually apologize if they felt as if they let you down. At least people with proper social skills should at least.

It's a good thing you screwed up though! haha I learned from it.

I asked a chick to go hang out on an extremely spontaneous manner. I'm getting pizza. Wanna come?! sorta thing.

Her response was sorry, I can't I'm __________ (working on a friken paper ) in this case for you it was (I have a concert)

Sooo I acted like it was no big deal.

Me: Aww maybe next time! I'll try to save you a slice ;]

her:Ive never been to there before. Ill come next time definately for sure!

Easy way to guage if she "pre" flakes you in a text message. had i responded with a question like "didn't you finish your paper already?"

The outcome might have turned out like yours. Trying to catch a ball that sorta fumbled

Nice response

great posts on here guys, love how wolfman really breaks it down- simply neediness and accepting that the pan isnt gongi to fly cuz she seems flaky is the best mind frame. you need her to know that your still gonig to have a good time, and shell feel like shes missing out, like the previously put post with the spontaneous pizza bit. Its pretty much the easiest way to see if a girl is pre-flaky or simply not that much fun!

Good Luck!
F|y

wow guys thanks a lot, think i deff got the neediness thing down stll gotta work on the incongruence thing tho

so yea jus so u now 2 days after that text was like it never happened..... she was all happy and stuff in class and between us was back to our old flirty selves



well guys thanks alot those lines that u showed kind of gave me an idea of how to respond to when a girl says no thanks again