| This should help you all around in life in or out of a relationship.
"Don't take her out for dinner, don't pay for her dinner".
We all know the usual advice: don't pay for stuff when you are dating a HB. It goes from not buying her drinks as you just met her to satisfying her material needs and buying her dinner and raining expensive gifts with the hope of impressing her and stealing her heart. Sure, women like to be pampered, taken care of and want to see you in the role of a provider(esp if she has an eye on a LTR). Plus, society has programmed her and her friends to believe that a gentleman ought to pay for dinner on a date. She EXPECTS you to pay. Does she expect me to wear a tutu and do flip flops for her?
As usual, the PUA has come up with all sorts of advice/reasons on NOT taking her to dinner in the first place, here are the usual arguments:
--Dating(including dinner) is for women you are already sleeping with.
--Do not pay for her time in a supplicative way.
--Do not do things ONLY to adhere to social norms.
What if you are by nature a benevolent and generous person? Yes, you can be yourself, but she does not know that. Fight the urge to pay. And buying her dinner is not the best way to show your generous side. Give money to a charity instead. It's more DHV(protector of loved ones).
First recognise that eating out is a social activity that normal people do. If you tell a HB that you never eat out, she instantly thinks that (1) you can't afford to, or (2) you dont have friends to go out with, or worse (3) you are consciously avoiding to pay for dinner, hence avoiding the dinner option altogether. If people didn't go out to eat, the food retail industry would be in shambles.
Now to the main point of this post: what can you do when you can't avoid a dinner date? How do you avoid putting yourself in this unfavourable position in the first place? How can you react? Those are my personal thoughts and some examples from my personal experience (and some readings). These are not rules, but guidelines. I will always emphasize that.
The main idea:
Quote:
Handling the money situation comes down to having a solid frame, and not being nervous about it. If you have certain values, adhere to them. You have already decided how it is going to be, and you don't care what the HB's reaction is going to be. You do not consult her or look to her for approval.
MAIN FRAME: you decide who pays, whether she contributes or you foot the whole bill
.
Before the dinner.
A common rule that some guys have adopted is: WHOEVER INVITES, PAYS. Any other arrangement must be made explicit on the first meeting/outing (let them know BEFORE you get there that you're not going to pay their way). Avoid trouble. And if she's at all a cool girl, she'll invite you out to do stuff part of the time.
Some people start with the assumption that you are each paying your own way. That is standard operating procedure for FRIENDS. Act like that's how it ALWAYS is with you. If she says something about you paying for her, put the burden of explaining why ON HER. She has to tell you why you should pay for her share, not the other way around.
If the HB wants to treat you
Some guys love to be the reverse gold digger, esp if the HB is in a better financial situation than them. Is the HB trying to putting him in her "money" frame? Some people make a big fuss of it, some dont mind it. Personal preferences, I guess.
For me, when I find that when a girl is offering to pay for the first dinner, I'll tell her not to etc, if she's super persistent, I tell her "I won't talk to you anymore if you dont let me pay for the drinks". Dont put in your mind that she' trying to make you feel cheap. Oh well, who cares what she thinks?
The home-cooked dinner option
For me, I invite her to dinner at my place or her place. I happened to be blessed with a father who used to be a restaurant chef. And I can handle myself in the kitchen quite well. If it's a day2 or day3, I'd say ... why dont you come over for dinner? It's been a while since I've made [insert your specialty dish]. It would be fun. Bring something so that we can share in. Plus, your place is a seduction or comfort location. She'd have to come to your place at some point. Why not kill 3 birds with one stone? I DHV, I let her into my pad, I get to spend quality time with her, and food leads to sex, if you've planned it right.
Reframing the invitation
If she proposed the dinner date(Coz you would never do that, right?), make it clear to her that she's the one inviting you. If the invitation she makes is ambiguous, like "we should go to a restaurant or something," transform it into an invitation from her: "Thanks for inviting me! That's so sweet of you!" If she wants to invite you somewhere, she has to pay the price. An incentive for her to accept YOUR invitations for the specific times and places you offer.
Don't make it sound like a date.
(That follows from the idea that you dont date until you've already f-closed her). How do you reframe the dinner in terms of a meeting(with no traditional romantic connotations attached to it)?
This is not a date that you are constructing for her benefit. It is a meeting, an opportunity for her to get to know you better. You still haven't decided whether you want to sex her, or even be her friend. You are just agreeing to meet at a certain time and place to get to know each other. She doesn't deserve a date yet because she has given you nothing.
Use the "should the guy pay for dinners" as an opinion opener."
Out of consideration, do you prefer to pay your own way? What are
your feelings on this?
OR
Do you think that guys should pay for dinner on the first date? Then, GROUND YOUR OPENER. There has to be a reason why you are asking this (Read Style Classical post on the jealous gf.)
(One or more of the following arguments can be used)
Set the standard early in the date/relationship.
While a drink costs much less than a late night supper, which costs much less than a dinner at a 3 hats restaurant, which costs much less than a holiday trip to the tropics, which cost smuch less than... you get the point right? Dont steal an egg, and you wont have to steal a cow. Once you start acting like her wallet, she's think of you as one. Is that the kind of guy you want to be? It all begins withing the first meeting... and the frame you create. It all begins with you trying to impress her with a fancy dinner.
The no free lunch argument.
This is saying that if you pay for her, she'll have to deserve it. Some speech like [I read that on mASF from Formhandle, I think) : "Hey, I don't buy girls dinner/drinks... hold up... I'll tell you what. I'll buy you a drink... AFTER you kiss me... IF it's any good. Are you a good kisser? What do you rate yourself on a scale of one to ten? I don't believe it. Let's see. (kiss) Bullshit. Again, with FEELING. (KISS) Wow. You're making me feel weird."
That frame is not that strong coz it means you would do anything in return for a reward, but some guys may like it.
Verbally indicate your values/opinion on "buying her attention". If she does not know why you didnt agree to pay for her dinner, she will only make guesses and one of those guesses could be (1) he's a cheapstake, (2) he doesnt like me (3) he's after my money etc... (4) he's not as rich as he looks... I am not recommending making excuses. You dont need to convince her that you are doing the right thing. You believe what you do and you are also telling her about your core values. On a deeper level, you are not buying into her frame and you come out as alpha(but she does not need to know that bit). You also stand out from the other attetion-buying AFCs.
You can give the "i dont pay for strangers" argument, esp if you are still in Attraction, and not in deep comfort yet. If you barely know the HB, whats the point of buying her stuff? One line I like to use in a joking way, is "I have a rule. I only pay dinner for my good friends". She'd usually retort with "am i not your friend? ME: Yes, you are my best friend (give me a hug), (2) are we friends?[with a puzzled naive look], (3) it's a great privilege to become my good friend, I have a test {do Juggler's gf test}.
Disarming the golddigger.
Indirectly state at some point BEFORE going out, "I hate those golddigger chicks who expect the guys to buy them dinners and stuff just like prostitutes. only dork guys buy into that. Cool guys just don't do that kind of thing." Of course you cut her off at the pass then she will look like a golddigger prostitute if she expects you to buy her dinner/movies/anything.
The equal rights argument
Some women would use that as a reason to contribute 50/50. I won't personally use that bullcrap feminist shit just to coerce her to prove to me that she's a believer of equal rights. What if she is not?
I have an asshole friend who once said to the HB he was sarging, "Why should I buy you a drink? Because I have a penis and you have a pussy? The times have changed, missy. For thousands of years, men have put up with the chilvary crap. Now, make me feel like a man and cook me dinner"
... She did. What a good frame, you can get away with anything.
Make dinner plans together. Getting her involved and making the dinner idea a joint activity set the mood for and make the bill splitting smoother. Use the "we" perspective.
If the topic of splitting has not come up and the bill comes:
--If for whatever reason you did have to pay for dinner(eg she didnt bring any money), I turn it around by making her return the favour. But don't do that before/while paying for the bill. It comes as obvious that you are trying to force to return the favour.
Usually, towards the end of the so-called date, I'd give hints like " what is your favorite restaurant in town? HER: bla bla blah. YOU: awesome. It sounds great. Why dont you bring me to that place next time? Reframe the interaction and make her the one who pampers you, take you to dinner. Juggler has a funny line about him telling the HB that he's high maintenance.
--Another "less effective" way is to punish her making you do something that you didn't want to do. You could dump her right there on the spot and walk away...if you have the balls to pull this off, you would realise that no women has the power to make you feel used (you will feel like this after you pay for the meal and call her a couple of days later and she LJBF's you). She could then chase you away and become apologetic about the whole thing. a DLV on her part. The problem with this approach is that she could let you walk away and become angry at you. But hey, you're alpha and you have options.
--I found that from mASF:
Quote:
I had a girl show up on our first date with no purse, no money,
nothing. I said, calmly, 'You didnt just ASSUME I was going to pay
for you, did you?'
HER: Uhh..well..since you asked me out, I just thought...
YOU: Look. If youre looking for a sugardaddy, or someone to worship
you, then I thank you for your time, and Ill be on my way. If
however, you believe in equality, romance, and want to share a
connection with someone just like that, Id love to spend some time
with you. However, I need to know right now that youre not trying to
use me for anything other than conversation and an enjoyable time.
HER: NO! Its not like that...its just..
YOU: Look, its just a misunderstanding. Ill pay for you, but youll
have to either pay me back later, or next time we go out, itll be on
you. OK?
HER: Ok..Im SO sorry...I didnt mean to...
YOU: (Smile) Its OK...lets see you make it up to me (Then grab her,
and kiss her passionately!!)
--If you have run a tight game during dinner/before dinner, and you don't want pay for it, just look at the bill and say:
"ok, my share was $#, and yours was $#" and be cool about it. Who gives a sh!t? If she was already planning on having sex with you at that moment, she's not going to chode out just because of a bill. Only attempt that if you have a high BT.
--Most waiters/waitresses will put the bill in front of the man. If you know the place, talk to him in the back to have him put the bill in the middle of the table. Then ignore the bill by talking to the HB. See if she picks it up.
--A Juggler's advice(from his mASF archives):
Ask for the bill early. When it comes, just set it between you. Then
ignore it. It will eventually weigh on her mind and she will pick it
up. When she does, smile and make a joke. "Don't think you spending
money on me means I'm easy."
--(Cocky-Funny) When the bill comes, look at it and say in a joking fashion, "You're going to cover this (smile) because you enjoyed my company soo much," before she has a chance to answer, "I'm just kidding I'll pay own share."
--If she asks if you are going to pay for her share, you could say:
>>"uh, no you haven't done anything to deserve it yet." (keep smiling) Then, LET HER CONVINCE YOU why you should pay for her.
>>'You didn't just ASSUME I was going to pay for you, did you?(calmly)
SOME THINGS NOT TO DO: guidelines
--If you can avoid it, don't ask her for dinner via a text message or through a voicemail. There is a higher chance of being rejected or flaked on. I could go on about why this is not the best way to ask a HB out unless you're trapped in a high tower and you can only use messaging pigeons to set a meeting. Call her and use that to settle any 'logistics'(where to meet, what time etc...)
--Dont go to a very expensive restaurant if you usually dont dine at such restaurants. Chances you wont be familiar with the menu/settings and if you had to pay for the dinner, you'd probably be eating baked beans on toast for the rest of the month/till the next paycheck. I actually have a friend who did that once. He didnt get the girl in the end... and paid for his mistake dearly.
--Don't bring enough money to just cover your own dinner in the hope that she'll be compelled to cover the rest. Why? If she's put on the spot (ie she didn't expect to pay for her share or she thinks that you purposely didn't bring enough cash), that leaves a sour taste in her mouth and could end a good dinner badly(coz let's face it, if you have gamed her well with great conversation during the hour long dinner), you dont want to end on a bad note.
--Dont refuse her willing to contribute to the dinner bill, so that you can show your 'provider' status. First, many women(the ones who work and are financially independent) dont like being bought, and actually want to be on the same level playing field as you are. When she does that, reward her with "you're different from the other women I've dated. I appreciate that. The others always expect the guy to pay."
--Don't say "you owe me # bucks".
--Dont DHV by DLVing her with respect to financial issues. Sometimes you'd meet HBs from an affluent background, sometimes you'd meet those who are of modest origins. I dont make it a deal that they are rich or poor. Know them first before knowing whether they have caviar for breakfast or a Kraft Cheddar on toast. Surprisingly, the 3 spikes of attraction for DHV(preselection by women, leader of men and protector of loved ones) have little to do with the size of your bank acccount, although the latter may help. Just like a HB wants you to like her for something more than her looks, you want her to like you for something more than your porsche and $10,000 Versace suit.
--Don't make her feel bad about her wanting to get free drinks/meal from you. If you want to neg her about it, do it right. But I would instead try to excuse her behaviour by blaming the other guys instead. I once told a HB8, "you've had too many guys buying you dinner, eh? And I bet they truly believe that they can make you fall in love with them by simply waving a big fat bill in front of you. Dont; you worry, I'm not one of those guys (with a confident smile)"
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