Until our society doesn't place exceptional value on physical attractiveness (especially in women), I don't think that will be a reality.

As photoshopping/retouching get better and cosmetic surgeries get more common, it seems that it's going to keep going in the same direction.

IMO, the thing that will change the system is more informed men. Seriously, out everyone on earth, look how many of us belong to communities like this or talk about things like we do here? I would say for every ONE guy that understands that he is/was an AFC and wants to improve and is willing to put in the time and dedication, for each guy like that, there are a HUNDRED clueless AFCs perpetuating the uninformed lifestyle.

Of course this is just my opinion and there isn't any hard scientific data to back it up. Just well reasoned thoughts.

_________________
"No good deed goes unpunished" -Rick H

Hey Evo
Thanks for the response, I hear what you're saying, although one thing comes across a couple of times in it that strikes me as a little insecure (I'm not having a go so please don't get annoyed)...
You say more than once that girls get hit on all the time and it's about feeling that you're a prize worth having, that she's lucky to have you etc.

Of course she should feel like that, as should you when you pull her, does it have to be one upmanship? Sounds a little like it does.

I don't know what girls you're mingling with, sounds alot on here like they have to be modelesque for a guy to feel she is worth pulling, but I don't know any girls who strut about thinking they are better than a guy and that all men should fall at their feet, thus creating men who will go against that and show they are not going to do that for a woman.
I think that it a very few women who feel and act that way (probably models, dancers and celebs -I'm generalising of course!). I really don't know any women who expect or want a man to behave in that way.

It sounds like some guys on here really want to validate their worth by how many women they can pull, preferably beautiful ones. I guess it works the other way too...some women want to validate themselves being attractive by bedding lots of men. Hmmm, sometimes I think men and women are so different to each other it's a wonder anyone ever gets together, and sometimes I think we're actually very very alike in many ways lol

*intended for Silver*
I agree actually. That is why I put 50-100 years. What I actually should have put was just "Not in Our lifetimes." All I am saying is that it WILL happen. It has happened before. From Cave men to "civilized" man. and it will change back... when most of the men are back to Alpha males.

Being completely honest here Red, alot of the techniques are based upon women who are HB7-HB10. That is why there isn't really a HB5. Something wrong with those women? No, not at all. It is just that men DO put more value into physical appearance. Mentally we strip off your clothes and redress you. We imagine different makeup, different positions (not just sexual ) and we see how you Could look. (I am not saying this is ALL we look for... but seriously.. it is a big part.)

Where as females it is more about who and what a guy is... not what he looks like. It is his inner quality and his future they are concerned about.

Yes, this is shallow of men, no I am not apologizing for it. Yes, it sucks. Yes, it causes us endless problems. If every other man stopped going after the HB10's would I stop? Hell no. I have come to grips long ago that I am shallow. (But I require MUCH more than just good looks.)

But since One requirement of what I want IS good looks then That is where I start because it is the easiest to evaluate.


As for the "Equality" issue. Yes, it would be just fine if the playing field was fair. I would love that. IF she felt that I had something to offer right off the bat then I would be okay with that. But there have been many times a man doesn't get that. As a man you have to prove that you are worthy to even talk to because frankly... alot of men aren't. I have talked to quite a few of my female friends and they say they get hit on alot and that it can get annoying. Not because they don't want an interesting conversation but because it feels like an interview. And alot of these things that we are trying to learn here (outside of the inner game) are tips and techniques that help us learn how to talk to women so that it isn't the same thing over and over.

You say you don't know any girls who strut around thinking they are better than a guy and all men should fall at their feet. Ofcourse not, but will they give some men more of their time that they give other ones? Have you ever known a woman who was hit on 5 times in a night and couldn't remember anything about those guys? Could she even tell you the color of ANY of their eyes? Probably not.

And personally, I am dealing with my validation issues . But that is not why I am here. I am here to learn what I need to know so that when I see a girl who is Possibly a match for me I am able to distiguish myself from the 1000's of other guys who hit on her yesterday so that I get a chance to show her who I am. And the only way I can do that is learning about you sneaky women's shit tests and such.

Now your last statement... I agree fully! Woman and men are sooo different and we really do want different things but for the Exact same reasons.





*EDIT*-- And it is reallly creepy to see in the main forum under last post added

Subject: I'M A GIRL...
By: EvoJ
Today At : 4:17

LMAO

*END EDIT*

And, just for the record, I've found that a girl can get around 2 extra points on the HB scale, if as you get to know her you realise what a great person she is. Looks are definitely just a starting point. A girl being a bitch can drop down drastically, which is why you'll find guys talking about how they ejected because she was boring/ had no sense of humor etc.

And this is why I like being here, you're open and honest, and trust me, alot of men are not.
And it is fair enough to want an attractive girl, of course you would, who wouldn't! (Well, I'm straight but I can totally look at a girl and think she is sexy or fit-fit is a term in the UK we use which bascially means 'hot').
I tend to not care so much what a guy looks like as you say, to me, them having a brain is very appealing (I don't mean like a Scientist or anything, but sounding like they have read a book not just porn and know what is generally going on in the world!), someone who makes me laugh (cliche but very true), being sexy, and not sure how to catch what that is...I guess a little mystery, challenge, showing restraint but still showing interest...all good stuff. A good smile and nice eyes...all good. Now I am showing my girliness 'nice eyes' lmao! Maybe a nice look with the eyes is a better way to put it.

I think we all want validation that we're appealing to the opposite sex as I've said, I know I have done and probably still do...that's no bad thing, I don't know many people who have been brought up to be 100% secure, loved, told they are worth it and feel confident in who they are just as they are, with no extra help or life skills learnt. I blame parents lol...just kidding, my parents are great and I'm sure most others are too

I know that most of you sound like you may want fit girls, but you also like a bit of a challenge and a laugh with it, if a girl just said yes and jumped into bed right away...apart from the obvious fun, I am sure you'd tire of it soon enough and look for someone else.

I really like that you style it all out, make an effort, a whole art form in pulling women, we could see that as very flattering that you want to learn how to do it well, successfully and not be one of a 1000 guys as you say.
Maybe that is why I like the PUA I know so much, he made me laugh alot and (without sounding like an arrogant person, which I am far from) I had others wanting more with me, but they just don't keep my interest, don't do anything memorable and don't really make me laugh.

And drunk guy being crude in a bar is very forgettable...nothing appealing about that.

I really am waffling, shame we can't learn this stuff in school!
May save alot of future heartaches, unwanted pregnancies, STDs, insecurities etc etc etc!

x

How old are you lot anyway!?

I feel like an old lady here going on about 'all my experiences' lol!

I'm not by the way so no rude jokes please!

You do realise that is going to make the thread last forever, don't you?

I'm 29 - too young for you.

Lol...29, so young and innocent...yeah RIGHT! lmao

I'm 31...and I wasn't trying to come onto you! Just wanted to make sure not everyone on here was 16 or something (no offence young pups!).

Lol... what do you consider "rude"? (Basically that is a good part of what we are talking about.)

But no, I am 27. I am about middle ground here from what I have noticed. I mean, I have seen between 14-56 here I think so you being 31 is pretty middle of the road too.

And besides... here women who are above the 18-22idiot range are prized here. I am serious, take a search around. Only good things, unless that is, you are planning on become some Cougar and even then it is okay with all of us.

Every guy here wants more men AND women to get laid and be happy!

And again, you are right about us guys not being okay with just constantly being pushed into bed by random women all the time.... but for alot of us we want to get to this point and THEN pick and choose. The AFC becomes a PUA and he learns how to please his newly found HB10 in the process.

Win-Win.

I'm glad you understand cause my best friend is a pretty HB and she doesn't get it at all... except the shit tests. We had a LONG convo about shit tests and how she does them constantly and doesn't even know it. She may not understand but she is coming around slowly. I think I have her convinced it isn't about tricking/hypno/drugin a woman to fuck me. Which IS good... but she is still missing the finer points of the basics like the difference in a NEG and a insult. I am trying to atleast teach her what tiny bit I know so that she can be a great wingwoman/pivot.

So, red, why did you come here in the first place? Just curious cause your PUA friend is a PUA ... or were you hoping to find a buncha smarmy assholes trying to trick women? Or was it the psycho-socio parts? I mean, I KNOW why the guys are here but maybe I just missed your welcome note.

Well, I think Red's curiosity about PUAs comes precisely from her attraction to that friend of hers... Maybe you're trying to understand just how much (and what kind) of a lifestyle his hobby is?

Maybe getting into the typical PUA's way of thinking will allow you to find differences and better connect with him? He's older than most people in this forum anyway, so most differences you find are likely just due to him being more mature.

And I would like to apologize if I'm being too intrusive here. I don't want to sound disrespectful. Although if I ever sound arrogant, that's because I am, a bit. But that's part of my charm

I am here because I was enjoying the book, The Game, find it fascinating as I think I said early on.
I kinda feel like I know alot of this stuff anyway, but I find it amazing that there is a whole network of PUAs and that you discuss your tips etc...not in a bad way, just I was curious. I'm a single 31 year old in London, and I have had a fair share of dating experiences, suggestive emails, potential whatevers and a couple of F buddies at times. That is pretty much what the PUA is that I know. But he suggested the book to me, I think he knew I could handle it and he wanted me to be prepared and aware! lol

But it's not all about him, no way. I guess I want to be informed, know the signs...have my own control over what is going on and not get hurt as far as possible.

Sounds soppy and silly maybe...but ultimately...I don't want to get hurt and have been a few times in the past. I want to enjoy experiences, not have expectations that are unrealistic with certain kinds of guys, and also I love men, like chatting to them...and alot of my male friends seem to stop that when they partner up (jealous girlfriends).

Does that help explain why I'm here?
I was and am a curious kitty!

x

Red,

Many/all of the characteristics above are what many PUAs try to emulate. Unfortunately, not everyone is born knowing how to challenge a woman, how to not go over the top showing interest, etc... There's no sinister motive here, just a desire to not get blown out in the first 20 minutes of talking to a woman.

Great to see someone approach this community with an open mind. We've had a lot of women post here recently who are under the impression that we're all about getting laid as many times as possible.

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Hell yeah Mech. If I just wanted to get laid it would be a whole shitton cheaper just to hire a prostitute. I mean damn, I have spent like 400$ on clothing alone in the past month. (Yeah I know, but my wardrobe reeeeeeeally sucked.) I just didn't realize how much it mattered.

And if you say.. well that isn't that much...

I used to make food at home constantly because I was a cook/chef for 10 years. Now I go out just so that I can have exposure to women so that i can sarge and that 7$ a meal adds up hella quick compared to the awesome cheapness of cooking at home.

AND the phone bills! Dear god... gonna have to get a new plan and a part time job just to pay it...

right anyway, HereHere mech!

And yes, Red, that does help tyvm.

Evo

I have an open mind because I have experienced different kinds of guys over the years and I know that it isn't always as simple as one in a serious relationship may think.

In fact, when the sh*t comes down, being single and dating, flirting or whatever (casual affairs etc) it can be complicated...confusing, confidence knocking, disheartening and so on, and so forth!

I don't hate men at all..I love them, I just wanted to know why you guys are PUAs and how you do it.

I think some people may judge because alot is talked about regarding how a girl looks on here (as with rest of the world!), maybe that is why they think that you all want to get laid repeatedly...but I know it's not all just about that for all of you, all the time.

I'm a grown up and want to make my own choices without judgement from anyone. I imagine you feel the same too. Being single, I want to make the most of being single without feeling used...I say 'feeling' used, because we can all use people for what we want (such as physical intimacy), but you don't have to be an arsehole/bitch about it in the process. You can do all that stuff, flirt, kiss, be intimate, chat just for a night, whatever, and still make the other person feel good about it when it's over.

xx