That's a good question...I love to be made to laugh...but sitting with someone being honest all night can be funny too.
This PUA I know makes me laugh with his honesty about what he is like. He knows I see through him and it all, but I still like and am attracted to him. He's not gorgeous looking, not tall, bald head, 43, plays around...but I fancy him like mad and he makes me feel good.

I definitely want honesty, to me that empowers both of you and brings alot of freedom with it. It means that a girl can go into whatever she wants with you without misconceptions and confusions about what you'll give her. If you lie about what you want...beware the needy and desperate who will pursue you and hassle you!
Girls like fun too remember, they like attention as do you, they want to feel attractive, as do you...so give them the option by being honest about what you can offer them, let them make the choice with all the information they have and then no guilt, no hassles should come of it!

I'm waffling now lmao

x

Just a little reminder here... most guys on this message board do not approve of lying to girls (at least that's my impression). And indeed, only a loser lies to get what he wants. I just hope you're not getting the wrong impression.

Cheers

Thanks, no, I know you're right...I think any guys who do that really are pretty pathetic and obviously only after notches on bedposts.
There are better ways to get a girl to bed than lies.

No wrong impression, I don't think ...I think I've met way too many liars in the past, or at least...guys who are not upfront about what they want from you. It's just time wasting and annoying, doesn't have to be that way.

Alot of my friends think I know too much about it all (dating game/sexual politics etc) and I should write a book!
I started one a couple of years ago..maybe I'll pick it up again soon...the Girl's version or response to 'The Game' lol
xx

This is a hilarious statement.

Are you really confused about what guys want from you?


The problem with being a guy? If I met a young woman and told her what I wanted immediately or directly, she'd either consider me a creep, potentially kin to jack the ripper, or simply turn off like a light switch.

It's just the way it is. Different communication styles if you will. Women are quite indirect, and like to be approached this way. This is a safety mechanism for them, and leaves them an out. For guys it's just the opposite, we don't like to beat around the bush. We learn that the direct approach intimidates most women, and is seen by them as socially unsophisticated. Now I'm not saying it doesn't work occasionally with drunk women, or that a really hot guy can't sometimes get away with it because he certainly can. But we can't read your minds anymore than you can read ours, and in the end we are all just looking for the same thing.

Now most of us guys know full well you can't jump in the sack with everybody that comes your way, nor would you want too. And we know you have to be careful (alot of jerks and creeps in the world). It can sometimes make for difficult communication. Especially when the girl is having issues undoing all the crappy programing from her upbringing that says sexuality is dirty or sinful and that all or most men are related to dogs, or other farm related animals, and cannot be trusted.

Boy that's a big mountain to climb already. Add a few girlfriends into the mix and other assorted cock blocking and envious types into the equation, and our job becomes almost insurmountable. Unless you like torture or hanging out where you are obviously not wanted.

Being a stranger isn't easy.
Girls need an education about men since they so often read them incorrectly, especially when they are young and inexperienced. Not necessarily a book on how to pick up men. They already know how to do this naturally from the moment they hit puberty. You want an example? Here's one;

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http://youtube.com/watch?v=4ufa-q7DcWM

Lol...yes, that would do it! Any girl looking like that probably doesn't have to do anything except breathe to get attention...lmao

I don't think girls need a 'how to pick up guys' handbook...more like a 'Go out and be informed' kinda book from a girl's perspective!

I'm glad you found what I said hilarious...of course I know what guys tend to want, usually amounts to the same thing. And that can be just what I want sometimes. But there are the guys who gush sentiment at you. Online is particularly a haven for this...telling you how gorgeous you are, how amazing, funny, nice, sweet and sounding like it's all pretty full on for something exclusive with the two of you...how they want to go out with you, girlfriend/boyfriend style.

Chats on phone...all getting closer, building up a connection. If a girl wanted something serious, this is how he is reeling her in (and I'm not just speaking from my own past experiences, I know many other girls who have had same things happening more than once)...then somewhere down the line, they show that this isn't in fact what they want from you at all. All I'm saying is, don't bother with sounding like you want something serious with a girl if you don't really. It's that simple.
Other than that..yes, I know what most guys really want ol...it's not hard to know, I'm 31 and trust me...I know by now! lmao

xx

Oh yes, and totally agree, yes, indirect approach is better...I prefer it to someone sending me an email saying 'fancy a f*ck'..had too many of them and it doesn't do anything for me lol

Glad to hear you saying you're not mind readers, none of us are...I agree to that too. I think you can generalise what most men think when it comes to what they want from women and same for women with men, but there are always exceptions to the 'rule' and really, isn't being totally predictable a bit boring?

I've re-read your post a couple of times...liking what you're saying, you sound like you know what you're talking about, that's a good thing.

Yes being predictable is a bit boring..

And being hard to read is a bit creepy.

There's a balancing act. And without the guy chasing the girl around, and sticking his emotional neck out nothing happens.

I think some women take it all for granted.

Not to mention their lack of experience. You know, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. And I can empathize.

Some men not much better. Like you said, just notches in the belt.

I think most men would gladly sit back the let the women come to them for a change. But we both know this will never happen. And more than a few men get discouraged and say the hell with the whole affair. And women standing around scratching their heads like, 'why isn't this guy acting like he's supposed to act'?

A little kindness on both sides of the equation can work wonders in opening the lines of communication. Unfortunately the default position socially seems to be confusion and taking advantage of others first. No wonder so many people are walking around with a boatload of contempt for the opposite sex. And considering our busy, competitive and fast paced lives among other things.

It all makes things much more difficult than they should be.

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http://youtube.com/watch?v=4ufa-q7DcWM

You're a quick reader..

I had to edit it a couple of times.

I wish I could do that with a few of the conversations I've had with women during my lifetime..

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http://youtube.com/watch?v=4ufa-q7DcWM

I think you've hit it right on the head, a little kindness on both sides can help. I just wish some guys (note I say some guys, not all!) just want to get laid as many times as possible. Now that's Ok, go forth, be safe and have fun...but I think the way it is executed varies and I prefer a man to be nice, flirty, but honest too. There is much fun to be had, and as I keep saying, alot of girls like it too.

Some girls just don't want that though, I think some girls really do want to meet 'the one' if you even believe there is a 'one'...I personally don't. But the ones who do, will fall for the lines and think it really means something when alot of the time it doesn't mean longevity.
Yes, girls do need educating on this stuff. Life skills if you like!
I think there really is a book in there, although it probably has been written. Books like 'Bridget Jones' really don't do the mass of girls any favours...life ain't that simple that you meet some guy..have a few dramas but ulitmately realise you love each other and it'll all have a Hollywood ending happy ever after lol.

I am a quick reader lol
I don't know why it has to be this way, with guys having to make the moves first, but I'll admit that I prefer it. I guess alot of girls are insecure at heart and know that a guy could knock them back so easily which would reaffirm their insecurities. I know in reality it is probably the same for alot of men, but we want to be pursued and to feel attractive and I guess the way we have all been brought up, with books, films, TV shows, all support the fact that men should be the one chasing...if a girl does it, she tends to come across as needy and desperate and the hideous 'bunny boiler' image comes up. But it's all about execution...doing it in style, having and maintaining self respect (preferably still respecting the other person) and knowing when to stop and walk away.

I feel bad now, I made a comment somewhere on here re guys having pics showing their bare chests (on Myspace etc) and I think I was judgemental about it...apologies...I see your pic and you sound cool, so forgive the judgement.

I was generalising as is the way on here!

I half agree with this. Guys definitely need to be the initiator, but there's no reason for him to be "chasing" her. David D talks a lot about generating attraction which I think is important. There needs to be an even exchange (of IOI's etc) IMO. "Chasing" sounds like you're throwing IOI's, flowers, dinners at her and HOPING that she'll bring herself down to your level. That doesn't sound very masculine to me.
I think it's definitely true for men too. Everyone wants to be pursued and feel attractive. While some books/movies/tv shows show men chasing, are those really the men you want to be like? I think the majority of media that conveys that is showing men that come across as rather desperate and that's definitely not an attractive quality in men either! You NEVER see James Bond "chasing" a girl around buying her dinners and getting all sentimental on the first date.

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"No good deed goes unpunished" -Rick H

I have been reading these posts with interest. And although this one may not have the level of depth or sophistication I figured I would throw my own shiny two cents in.
This is so true and I think few people actually realise it. Men seem to always want that girl to come up to them in the bar and throw themselves at him. But like a girl may say 'I want a guy who does everything that I ask and pays for all my needs and obeys my every command' (excluding the dominatrix type of course) the guys are kidding themselves, it is what they really want.
I have been in the situation quite a number of times and you are not attracted to the girl who comes up to you with her first words 'Oh my gosh you are soo hoot!'.

Perhaps I am being very egocentric. Or perhaps not. I am unsure.Just my experience.
Oh my god I am tired and rambling.
Goodnight lovelies!

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- Giacomo
xx

And it's all back to the treat them mean, keep them keen motto.

But I think of course that saying makes it sound like people want to be treated like shit...I don't think they do...no one with a healthy self esteem does anyway...but maybe 'keep them guessing' is what is appealing.

And I agree so much...unless a guy really is desperate for sex...a girl coming up and being full on sounds like a turn off to me, just like a guy doing it to a girl is.

In the Myspace/web dating/facebook worlds, I don't know many, if any, girls who will respond kindly, if at all, to an email that is abrupt and sexual in the first sentence...a proposition for sex play before saying anything else. And in a bar, it comes across as smarmy, creepy and/or intimidating and insincere.

Are British girls different to US girls? I'm inclined to say they may well be, although I don't know any US girls to really back that up

Remember when you were 10 and people used to say "He is just making fun of you to make himself feel better?"

Well that isn't quite true.. he was doing it to make YOU feel he is better. And in the real world it is Similar. (Note I said Similar NOT the same.)

In the world now it isn't really about being mean it is about saying something that will be internalized as mean by the woman but isn't seen as mean by everyone else. Yes, abuse is bad, (But Evo... what if she asks for it. If she asks it isn't abuse... but she best be clear.) verbal or otherwise.

Treat 'em mean, keep em keen. No.
Treat 'em like they aren't the only fish in the sea and show them that YOU are the prize, keep 'em keen. Yes.

Just because they get hit on a 1000 times a day doesn't make them any better than me. You know why? Because I 90% of men play the numbers game. If I ask out 1000 and I get one to say yes... blah.

I don't. I feel I should be able to sit down with one woman and get one woman IF I chose it. What I am trying to say is that women feel special because they get hit on constantly because that is what men are supposed to do. As a rAFC I am here to learn how to show them that I am just as special as they are and they would be LUCKY to have me.
Yes, I'm working on my inner game and infact I kinda went on a rant here and forgot why I am writing.

BUT as an answer to your question Red. Women are the same the whole world round because men are. I know alot of people on here will say "A woman isn't a product of a man's behavior."

Yes. She is. In fact, that is why you are all here. Because of all those men doing all those nice things for women they all got used to it and changed. They don't want That nice AFC anymore, they want a "Socially Proofed" PUA with a Neg in each pocket for her.

I expect that in 50-100 years every man will be realizing that they are just as special as the woman and then the tide will shift back to the nice AFC guys. But that is a LONG way off.

enough of a rant.

EvoJ