Okay so I'm really REALLY new at this. As in I read Neil's book "The Game" like a month ago, and have been devoted to the art of the pick up ever since. I have been practicing my game everyday since I read the book. I haven't really mastered the "Approach and Open" thing. But I'm fearless. I don't mind approaching women because I'm really not afraid of being rejected. But I am having serious trouble keeping conversations going.

For Example: Tonight I went out sarging with my buddy. We both spotted this HB (she was about an 8.5), I decided to go and talk to her. She's in VIP with her friends, and i really wasn't expected her to even engage because she was there with a bunch of people that she clearly knew, but I leaned over the railing of the VIP section and said to her " You look interesting... you look like someone that I would like to get to know." It was honestly my first legit approach. It was like magic. She smiled and was said "thanks..." I said "are you here with these people..." and she says yeah. I asked her are you interested in making new friends, and grabbed her hand without even waiting for her to respond. she followed me (while squeezing my hand intently the ENTIRE time and walked with me to the bar). We talked for a little while about who we were and what we do. But after I ran out of things to say I just FROZE. I wanted her number badly. I didn't let her know that though. I played it cool and pretended like I was really that interested in her, and started talking to everyone that was around me. I told her that we should hang out, and she agreed, but before I could get her number (i had been interrupted by the bartendor) she was like "I need to get back to my girls..." I let her go without getting her number. I didn't want to seem like I was needy, so I was like "thats cool."

To get to the point, I didn't get her number, and she left the bar before I could. It sucked because she was into me, but I ran out of things to say. WHAT THE FUCK DO I NEED TO DO!!! How did that happen.

Hey Bovice,

You needed to DHV (demonstrate higher value) either be intreguing or do something that interests her...

Read posts on The Cube, 5 questions etc...

Cheers,
Warden

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-Warden-

Hey Bovice...

It seems that you're not sure what to do when it comes to moving to the next stage of attraction...what I would suggest is researching and studying Mystery's M3 model (for starters). That will give you a good idea on where you might want to lead the conversation, and allow you more control in accomplishing your goals. For detailed info...

http://attraction-chronicles.blogspot.c ... tline.html

Seems to me like you have no problem with opening, and I respect that a lot. I know guys that have been at this for a while, and still have problems approaching a harmless girl on a quiet street, let alone the popular girl at the VIP...keep harboring that confidence and you'll accomplish anything.

Where you might have not gone the ideal route is right here:

"We talked for a little while about who we were and what we do."

I wasn't there, but it sounded to me like common human conversation that she could've had with any other guy in that venue. The only reason she probably stuck around long enough to let you fumble nervously over your mental block was because your approach was so ballsy (you do realize that you estranged her from her friends, and made her leave the VIP don't you? ...and just for future reference, if you are going to play the "I'm not interested in you" role, you have to make sure to have demonstrated enough value to make it hurt her to not have your attention all on her.

But from what I can imagine your conversation sounded like, you probably are not listening to what she says in the most efficient way and/ or just need some practice leading a convo where you want it to go. Once you learn techniques for this AND learn where you SHOULd be leading the convo in the first place, it'll all click in your brain and make sense.

So here's what I'm going to do for you. I'm going to give you the link to another site that should change your life, and give you enough options to experiment with for a while.

In return, just promise me you'll find your own original way of doing things. So many guys are so eager to discover what works, they'll use the same canned garbage, and copied games every other man uses...forever. Learn the theory behind what works and make it your own...deal? Ok, deal. Here you go...

http://www.fastseduction.com/

With the two sites I gave you, you should be good. Now go have fun

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"You feel compelled to contribute to the pathetic heartbreaking predictability of it all, by all means..." -Roger Dodger-

Bovis, sound like you made an excellent open - well done. As Warden stated you should have run a routine. However, from what you write, when she said she needed to get back to the girls she gained the power. You should have completely ignored that comment and ignited a completely different topic then, (and this is key) You should have regained control by saying it was a pleasure speaking to her and telling her you would love to continue this conversation but you cant now as you must get back to YOUR friends. She will then offer her number (preferably) or you could ask for hers. From what you write she would have definately given you it.
Ensuring you have the control is paramount because it shows that you are the prize and the dominant figure (women find this highly attractive).

The things you did well:
1. When you opened you were super-confident.
2. Your opening was entirely Alpha, it was the complete opposite of what 99% of all the other guys who approach her would say, you stood out.
3. Looked for kino, found it then capitalised on it.

The things you did not do so well:
1. You failed to DHV. You needed to show in a more deeper way that you are an interesting guy. At the point you lost it, that should be your only aim, you would seduce her in the next step. The Cube would have been ideal.
2. You stopped convo - you 'froze'. You should aim to make more statements then questions. Talk about holiday destinations - girls love that. Only freeze convo when there is sexual tension,when you can look at her in the eyes.
3. When she did leave instead of saying "thats cool", it would have been better to use cocky-funny material. Something like "(laughs) I am way more fun then that crowd, your loss (with a devious smile), see you in another life" You have to be prepared to never see a girl again, to get her. Or depending on how many IOIs your getting you could have pulled out your phone and said "The next few days are crazy, but i have some free time towards the end of the week, lets get together" then give her your phone and she will pop her number in like magic. Then say "lucky girl" and walk off.

Respect, Excitement

I think you read way too into this. I haven't read any of Mystery's techniques, though I respect the hell out of the guy. Here's my take on this:

That opening line was fantastic, I would have kept it more succinct: "hey, you look interesting. *smile* do you like meeting new people? *grab hand, proceed*. That's just splitting hairs though, that opener was great.

The problem...was dragging her to the bar. You drag them to the bar, they think they're gonna get free drinks out of you. Of course they'll stick around. She saw you weren't budging on that and she bolted. Unless you did buy her a drink and then she bolted anyways. If it's that case, yikes. Conversation needs to be more stimulating.

I wish I had your approach confidence...

with that, Ima be the best...

Im going to try some Ross Jeffries tapes to see if they work despite the fact that he was negatively written about in the game...

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I'm new, learning the art of seduction from books. Hoping to attend workshops when they arrive in the midwest... Give me a heads up if one comes along...

As everyone else has said, great opener. But here is a note on how to improve your convo. People always push a ton of topic matter, but in my opinion, you can talk about anything as long as you keep it interesting, and keep the conversation about you. After you ask her about herself, tell her about yourself, and throw in some wild story about you. Another thing to remember, is don't be afraid to lie. If you aren't an interesting person (which you very well may be, but you can always be more interesting) then just talking about yourself wont be interesting. Also if you are losing a girl's attention, make up some exciting bull shit to pull her back in. Keep in mind that the story doesn't have to be about you, it can just be exciting.

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Diamondtrim Day Flex

It's not about confidence, it's about the strength to plow through approach anxiety (which absolutely everyone gets -- mystery, style, etc...).
Ross Jeffries puts out some good material. You have to remember two things about The Game. First, Style is telling one side of a story. I had a hard time accepting RSD (Tyler Durden and Papa's company) as a viable source of PUA material, but they do their homework and provide some good stuff. Second, Style is a businessman. He makes a living writing and selling the stuff he writes. It is in his best interest to market himself as "the best", especially seeing as how most peoples' first glimpse of the seduction community is through his book.

My advice is to go on isohunt.com. I have found audio and video for

Style's Annihilation Method (Audio/Video/Documents)
The Mystery Method (Audio/Video/Documents)
Real Social Dynamics - Foundations (Audion/Video/Documents)
The Layguide (Documents)
David DeAngelo - Double Your Dating (Documents)
PickUp101 (Video/Documents)
Ross Jeffries - The Secrets of Speed Seduction (Documents)

And many many more resources, all for free. Search for things like PUA, Seduction, Pickup, "Mystery PUA", Hypnosis, NLP, Confidence, Shyness, Layguide.

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Neil Strauss' portrait of Ross Jefferies in "The Game" is not a flattering one but to my knowledge Strauss himself never questions the validity or importance of Jeffries' method. Certainly others in the book would jump at the chance to vilify Jeffries and Speed Seduction as a means to discredit his business (this is a competitive market as you know).

Speed Seduction is a very in-depth approach but I have found that certain aspects are easy to apply in the field. The idea of associating feelings of attraction in the presence of the PUA is surprisingy simple to accomplish. At some point after successful DHV you can steer the conversation to an emotional topic or by asking a leading question. Jeffries does it very directly in "The Game" by asking a waitress, "When you're really attracted to somebody, how do you know? In other words, what signals do you get from yourself, inside, that allow you to realize" *lowered voice* "you're...really...attracted...to...this guy?"

Brilliant! Anyway, Thread, when you get deeper into Jeffries' method report back with some in-field applications! Lord knows I need the help!

-Happy hunting

This sound a little like the situation I went through this weekend. I too am way new at this and just finished The Game, and the Mystery Method.

I think I fucked up even worse though, because I got too drunk and I lost control. I was chatting up a 3 set and had them really going, but I got too intoxicated and started begging the HB for her number and sounding really needy. I blew it big time. She kept saying that she will be there Friday when I was asking for her #.

It was a learning experience though. Should I show up on Friday and try again with her or move on?

I wouldn't get too upset about it. You made a ballsy approach which you should be proud of. Just keep doing those approaches consistently until you've got that side of it down pat, and then you can focus more on keeping convos going. Well, that's the approach I would take if I were in your shoes. One step at a time. Also, the more you go through freezing in convos, the more likely you'll find a really good solution to the issue, as opposed to just half heartedly covering up the hole just so you can get laid quicker. For example, I reckon a master PUA should never have to lie about himself as someone said you should do (or shouldn't be afraid to do at least) above.

If you start stuttering that bad, say you have to get back to your friends and number close before you come off like a douche canoe.

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