You do know that NLP is a compilation of techniques 'borrowed' primarily from gestalt therapy and Milton Ericksons study and practice of hypnotherapy, correct?
So in your opinion, all advice given in regards to attraction should be thrown out, since it is obviously a magic feather and nothing more... due to the lack of empirical evidence? In fact... to the best of my knowledge the only empirically tested aspects of attraction involve genetics... Should we all rely on purely "what our momma's gave us"?
You are absolutely correct that the mainstream psychological world dismisses NLP, which I think is a shame and this closed mindedness is one of the things that caused me to shift my planned career.

Also one of the reasons there is not much evidence for or against NLP is due to the very nature of it's practice... it's very difficult to measure any part of it, with the exception of the results.

I would say to those of you who feel that NLP has no basis in reality that I then propose a test, much like I did with one of my psychology professors. I posed to her to let me have a 2 hour therapy session with with a patient, which she would be able to observe and monitor the results. I would propose since this is the attraction/seduction community that you send me on a date with your gf/sister/mom what have you and then let her convey the results to you the next morning You can use the cognitive method on mine if you like

But in all seriousness I love that we are getting both sides of the arguement here, I would just ask you to make sure you've given both sides a fair shot before you pass judgement, I have.

Those who set out to attempt NLP techniques to "prove" that they don't work, will succeed.
Those who set out to attempt NLP techniques to "prove" that they work, will succeed also.

It's mostly best to understand it as a map, and a pretty good map, but you should always have alternative maps ready, and try to keep as many options as possible.
Don't fall for the temptation of believing that there is One reality.
That will most likely only lead to ignorance of possibilities.

Which would seem foolish to someone with a richer map.

Keep an open mind, and try some of the techniques out.

Btw. have you ever heard of autosuggestion ?
or the old model with the Thinker and the Prover ?
The Prover proves what the Thinker thinks.
And the more the Thinker thinks something the more the Prover will prove it to be true.

This is why some people still may argue that the earth is flat, while others argue it to be round.... like a pancake.

Those who set out to use NLP to jack off without hands are the winners.

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I'm addicted to facing my fears.

nlp is conducive to the art of picking up women because IT WORKS....and i have had it used on me. a guy that i am currently seeing/dating is certified in nlp and i know that he used it on me but it seems to work anyway. just because we may not fully understand why it works doesn't mean that people can't benefit from it.

furthermore, psychological principles (which pua is founded on) cannot be proven...they are only hypothesized. when dealing with humans you can not make definitive laws bc of the "human" element. even with game theory, you can try to predict what people will do, but you can never be certain because humans ARE unpredictable because we don't live in a stable environment. just when you think you have them figured out, some element changes.

One of the base tenets of the seduction community is that people are essentially hard-wired by evolutionary design to be emotional, and logical survival machines, there is no "human" element that cannot be meaningfully studied, man's free will does not exist in any magical box of randomness. We have preprogrammed ways of functioning, and differ only from other animals only by degree of complexity. There isn't much that can't be measured these days, and the entire psychological community is pushing to map and eventually artificially recreate human intelligence, circuit by circuit.

If you learned that in some psychology class, you are severely misinformed and you should ask for you money back. There are evolutionary principles at work, but humans are not all the same. AI may be able to mimick basic human functions, but it will never match the complexity of the human brain and therefore human cognitions and behavior.

Bonita is right, there is a lot more theory than scientific proof in psychology. These theories are developed by observation of human behavior, and often postulated or given reason by explaining it in terms of how it could possibly be adaptive in the evolution of our species. There is a lot of science in the field, there are many experiments that show correlations and tendencies. However, human behavior is so complex, the brain so intricate, that we have many, many years ahead of us before we could possibly create an accurate model 'circuit by circuit.'

Back on topic, NLP is real and is useful. I know that by studying it I have profoundly changed my inner self to a much better place, and now have a MUCH better 'map of reality' than I did before. I don't know why NLP gets a bad rap, because it is the most applied of the psychologies. It doesn't base it's methods on unfounded theories (although to be fair, there are some involved), it is based on what psychological techniques WORK on changing inner states, reading people, and gaining more powerful influencing skills. You can't really argue that it is fake or a sham because, unlike many other aspects of psychology, it is based on results. NLP is the cumulative package of psychological techniques that have been shown to be extreme successful in practice, as well as a way to better understand oneself to walk through the world with greater ease.

I'd talk more, but ironically I have a big psychology paper due tomorrow, ha.

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There are no failures, only feedback.

Hey Doc. I'm getting more interested in NLP.

I've watched some Tony Robbins stuff online. I don't know if he practices exactly what you would consider NLP, but it's definately interesting and exciting.

I want to learn more.

Do you have any reccomendations for books on NLP?

CPT

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"Wait, so let me get this straight. One really big meal a day then we go to sleep, no paper towels but a little bit of bread because we're not Nazis and as many popsicles as we want."

Yea i definitely agree. I think this stuff is extremely interesting, and whether it can be scientifically measureable to give proven results i don't much care. It sounds like the people who understand it communicate better, and are much happier with themselves then the people that don't.

So my question is the same as the privious. What is a good NLP book to start with, and then maybe a good NLP book that hits all the points and specifics to give a more in depth understanding.

Thanks Doc

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For me life is continuously being hungry. The meaning of life is not simply to exist, to survive, but to move ahead, to go up, to achieve, to conquer.


Johnny Chase

Captain, Fune,

I would definately recommend Tony Robbins stuff. Is it NLP, is it not... thats debatable, but its definatly very closely related and uses alot of the same concepts and I would absolutely recommend reading it. I would start with Awaken the Giant within... IMO that is one of the best books ever written on any subject.

As far as proceeding deeper after that I'd recommend going straight to the source. Bandler and Grinder. Start with Frogs into Princes and proceed through thier other works.

Thank you very much Doc. Greatly appreciated.

-Captain Fune

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For me life is continuously being hungry. The meaning of life is not simply to exist, to survive, but to move ahead, to go up, to achieve, to conquer.


Johnny Chase

Buria.

I was reading this study about the science of seduction & NLP I linked below. Just after the introduction, in the History of Hypnosis the author breaks it down rather nicley why psychology has abandoned NLP. I admit I don't have any psycology past the basic college 101 level, but to me NLP makes to much sense to dismiss. I have no doubt Hypnosis is real, having invited a skeptic out to a stage hypnotist show & hearing him say it was BS & he would go on stage & then watching him do all kinds of stuff he would have never done unless it was real, & having no clue what he did afterwords or WTF happened when I debriefed him. Basically all NLP is unknowingly putting someone in a trance by talking to them in a way that they talk to themselves from my understanding. Certainly seems plausible to me.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/4966458/NLP-Seduction

NLP is amazing, reading 'Introducting NLP' was really helpful, watching people like Derren Brown (and his book is quite helpful in terms of learning about hypnosis, cold reading, body language etc.) is inspiring. And sometimes when i run out of things to say in field...i just run a pattern and its so cool some thing like

"Some men are so crude. I can't believe what I saw this dude do the other night. He walked up to this girl sitting at the bar next to me and said to her "Imagine us totally making out and you getting so incredibly turned on by it. If you were to feel that right now, try not to think about having me eat your pussy all night long and getting really horny." I can't believe a guy would ask a women to think about that all night long."

or even Style's EV.

I love the stuff