I would have to agree with daggaz on this one.

If she already likes you for you, don't try the "gaming" techniques...
use the kino and other mentioned stuff from daggaz.

Another point I want to mention is this:

When she told you that she had a PHd and her father was an ambassador
to the the US... this was another big way for her to DHV to you.

This girl being recently broke up from her BF, is nothing to be too concerned
about in the way of you not getting far with her... she does in fact just need
a little bit of time to see if you will stay with her for more than just a lay.

Bump up on the kino and other stuff that daggaz mentioned, and you
should be "dating" this chica' in less than 2 weeks.

NOTE: Someone mentioned the Vmail thing... Never leave a Vmail.
She has caller ID, she knows that you called. You not leaving a Vmail,
increases the mystery of "why" you called in the first place.

NOTE 2: You mentioned that you "have" to see her again in order to
return her checkbook. With her giving it to you to hold onto means that
she "trusts" you already... congrats. Brownie points. XD..

When you return it to her, tell her that you really respect girls that trust
you with their entire financial life. (via. her checkbook, money, etc.)
She should smile when you say this. (Depending on her mood at the moment).

Or... I like this one and have used it successfully...

Ask her out to lunch and tell her that you have something REALLY important
to tell her... (she is now real curious, and nervous all at the same time)...

When you two meet at -the place-, talk to her without bringing up her
checkbook.. when the check comes, get "her" checkbook out and say,
"this one is on YOU again too, sign here, and just hand her checkbook
to her (closed, do not open it)."

Then you take out your credit card (or whatever) and pay for both of your
meals, coffee, tea, or whatever.

This should get a smile on her face, and yours too.

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Cool man, good luck with her, keep us posted! Still I will say it again, there is no reason not to read up on the philosophy behind gaming, and apply the more passive stuff at least. Things like avoiding the most common mistakes men make in new relations/not being an AFC or tryhard, and always remember no matter how high value you think the woman is, you are always a prize yourself!

"When we left she hugged me, kissed me on the cheek (haven't gotten a good kiss close with this woman yet), and said "My breakup with my boyfriend is recent, and I'm still recovering from that." I'm not sure what she was trying to tell me with that statement. Was that the "let's just be friends" statement, or was that a request for me to be patient while she heals a bit? Thoughts?"

Minor inconvenience? You not losing anything or giving up extreme effort so it looks good for now. Shes on the clock in control now seemingly now that its up to her whether or not things are going to progress....what can you do though?

Do you wow or keep this girl on the edge at all or are you just flowing as things happen? Sounds like your doing something right otherwise she wouldn't be spending time with you(i.e your not buying her a free treat, not giving her anything but your time)

Keep us posted i want to hear how things progress.

Good question...I suppose I'm going with the flow. I'd like to wow her a bit...that was my original intention, but she seems to get me a little off-kilter (by things like taking me salsa dancing!). I'm going to shoot for a date Fri or Sat, and see if I can get her more into my comfort zone (like sing a sweet song to her at Karaoke or something, take her to a bar where I usually go dancing). She's wow'ed me, but I haven't gotten a good opportunity to knock her socks off yet. However, that might be a good thing, huh? Since she already likes me, leave some things to be discovered?

On the kino...she seems a little...resistant? (But not rudely so though...not like "I think you're gross" LOL...maybe more like she's being cautious? She's an intelligent and experienced woman...maybe she knows she gets turned on by touch and we'll end up banging it out too early if she gives in? I dunno. I just get the vibe that the subtle resistance is a self-protection mechanism.) For instance, she'll hold my hand for a few seconds, but that's it. She'll hug me close, but won't hold it for more than just a second. Agreed the attraction seems to be there (she drove about 20 minutes to come to my house...I'll go to her next time), she didn't hesitate about coming to my house alone and having a glass of wine with me before we went to dinner, etc. I did buy her dinner at a nice Italian restaurant (but it wasn't an expensive dinner...we both like to eat light, so we ended up splitting a caprese salad and quite tasty entree), and then she paid my way into the Elk's Lodge.

I asked a lady friend a few of the same questions...she gave pretty much the same answers (pat on the back, guys!). She pointed out that perhaps she left her check book in my coat pocket on purpose (whether consciously or sub-consciously) so we'd have to get together again.

Of course, this was only the 1st date and 2nd time I've seen her, we'll see how it all goes from here! I enjoy getting to know people (especially women I'm interested in), so I am definitely enjoying the journey.

Gruuve

_________________
Divorced dude having a good life.

Ok i have disagree with this one. From my experience not leaving vmail its worst then leaving one. Sometimes girls will purposely not pick up the phone and wait for the vmail. Girl may not be sure if she wants to talk to you for w/e reason(you might have gotten the number too quickly or she doesnt know you enough etc...) but if you leave her a sweet/cool vmail she might smile and call you back. I have actually seen this with my girl friends and even on a couple movies. It gives the girl the chance to hear you without giving her the obligation to respond.

I recently send a txt to a girl that i knew that was blank to create "mystery" but that didnt work, she didnt respond, she only responded only after i wrote her something. Leaving just your number that you called its like sending a blank txt.

"Hey, its me, give me a call back when you call me....ummm....yeah.. " If you do it right it makes it sound like you messed it up and you realized it after the fact. I did that few times and girls were calling me back laughing. of course this might not fit your personality, im funny guy so goes perfect with me.

I left a her a voicemail earlier today about her lost checkbook...I said "Call me and let's figure how to get this back to you before I go on a shopping spree." Haven't heard back from her yet...I'd assumed she hasn't checked her voicemail...I'd be in a hurry to get my checkbook back, but that's just me. This is a great excuse to meet her for lunch, me thinks. Or line up something for Saturday, if she can wait for the checkbook that long.

I've got a couple mood rings, I usually wear one...next time I see her I think I'll do one of the little tricks I read in "The Game" and tell her to wear it to see what kind of mood she's in, then "forget" to get it back from her so we'll have yet another excuse to get together.

Gruuve

_________________
Divorced dude having a good life.

Ah, the good ol' "Ring Routine". Nice one.

Also, if you've read the game, then I think that there is a little bit of
Mystery's club gaming in there where he mentions seeing one of the girls
that he gamed that night and pulled out the "are you a thief" routine.

This is basically it in a nut-shell:

Whenever you see her, ask her, "are you a thief?" of course she's going
to say "no." Then you just place (insert item here) on her, neck, finger, etc.
and tell her, "ok, I want this back some time tonight before you leave.
It is very important to me and holds sentimental value."

Of course, this was done in a club. I am sure that you can improvise this
for any situation though.

When she finds you to give (the item) back to you... if you have not
gotten the number by then (if you want it), now is that perfect time to
bring out a piece of paper and a pen and hand it to her and say,
"oh yeah, I forgot, here.. write it."

Doing this implies that she wants to give you her number anyways.
The girl will most likely write down her number for you without you
directly asking for it. Via. Making it all "her" idea.

If she does ask "what is this for?"

Just take the paper back and say, "oh, nevermind, thought you wanted to
write down ways I could contact you." Then just turn your back on her...

Gotta love those "back turns." XD They work wonders. People hate being
shut out from stuff.

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LOL...I tried that "Are you thief? No? Then we have to get together so you can give this back to me" thing on a girl I met in a club a while back with a mood ring. Got her number and called her...apparently she WAS a thief because I never heard from her! (Good thing mood rings are dirt cheap, eh? )

Gruuve

_________________
Divorced dude having a good life.

Dang man. That sucks. I did LMAO when I read this though.

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UPDATE: OK, I'm getting some mixed signals from the Chica. We just talked on the phone about meeting for lunch so I could get her checkbook back to her. We agreed to meet Thursday for lunch somewhere near her work (which is fine with me, my schedule is flexible). I asked if she had fun Sun night, she said yes but said essentially that she isn't looking for "that kind" of relationship (which I took to mean sexual and/or romantic) at the moment, that her breakup was recent (like in a couple of weeks ago...I told her that I understood, my seperation was recent in the past 2 months), and she wasn't feeling all that good about herself right now. (She certainly does not appear to have any low self-esteem issues though...I know from our conversations she has a great relationship with her dad, which is a big factor in self-esteem for women.)

So, she seems to be pulling back a bit...Sunday she was inviting me to join an exercise class with her, had no qualms about getting together, etc. The stated reason however is that she needs some time to heal, which I can certainly understand. Before she had a chance to hit me with "let's just be friends", I suggested that...why don't we remain friends until you've had recovery time. She said that she has plenty of friends already. (Was that a wise move on my part or no? I'm thinking wave the carrot and take it away sort of? Thoughts?) I think her initial actions showed she was interested in more than just friendship.

One thought...I'm a really good listener and generally a pretty sensitive guy, so I could use that to build a reasonably strong emotional connection with her I think. But I'd have to do that without appearing to be an AFC. I'm thinking I should move while the iron is hot (so to speak) rather than letting things cool off and fizzle out.

She actually just called my cel while I was writing this. I didn't answer. I'll let her call back or I'll call her tommorrow or Thursday morn, based on what you guys suggest.

So, I'm going to give her one of my CD's when we get together for lunch. It's got a hot pic of me on it, and the released song on it is quite erotically charged. Good idea? I actually thought about asking one of my lady friends who's gorgeous to come to lunch at the same place, "run into me unexpectedly", and shower me in affection (which she does anyway) to maybe activate her jealousy response (if she has one, probably does). Or should I ask her if she's being flaky (a neg)? Or should I just be patient and spend a little time with her when I can? (Too much of an AFC approach?) I kinda feel like it's time for me to kick the attraction into over-drive but in a subtle way...I have to do it without much kino since she's purposefully resistant to that.

(And no, I don't have any ideas that she's "the one" or anything, I'm impressed by her and really like her. I have a different date Wed night who's cute and sweet but hasn't really bedazzled me or anything.)

Any thoughts and advice appreciated guys!

Gruuve

_________________
Divorced dude having a good life.

Ok, this is a tricky one, and you are in a hard spot, so you really need to understand one thing here...

You CANNOT reason with this woman, either verbally or thru other cues, and get her to change her mind on this situation. This is one of the hardest things to handle when you meet somebody you are totally attracted to, who is going thru whatever headfuck changes they might be going thru and simply and honestly arent ready for a relationship.

If you say anything (worst thing you can do) either directly or implied, that goes against what she is feeling at the moment (and I would assume here that she is being fully honest), then she is going to push you away faster than you can blink. You will NOT get another chance if you play that game.

As well, if you send other cues (too many invites, showing off too much, overt social cues indicating your interest, etc..) that are too obvious, she will blow you out of the fucking water, my friend.

At this point, you want to be extremely subtle. Obviously you want to keep some contact, or you have no chance at all, but try to limit it as much as you possibly can, if she feels you are trying to vie for too much of her time, she will push you away. When you do meet up, go ahead and run routines on her that are completely passive, and make no hint at all that you are after her. Good examples of this are going to places where you get spontaneous social proof, running rapport building routines, and TRUE DHV stories that only come up because the conversation actually takes you there.

The best rapport building routines for a girl like this are the personality test/psychological quiz things, like the cube, the five questions game, the ring routine, etc... She is going to be more susceptable to this, and you will get really good DHV from it, because of all the turmoil she is going thru. At the same time, you risk running into the best friends zone, but to be honest, with a girl like this, you risk that no matter what you are doing at the moment. That or the door. She says she isnt looking for that, so really... she isnt.

Another great thing to do, is to take her places that just completely take her mind off her troubles. I mean exciting, new, adventures that make her forget she was ever in a relationship in the first place. If its energetic, and she hasnt done it, get her to go.

But dont sweat it, just be the guy who makes her laugh, keep yourself sexy, let her have a few weeks at least, and be "honest" with her. If/when she brings it up again, that she isnt looking for this or that, it means she is feeling the heat from you. What you say is that you understand, you arent exactly waiting around for her or anything, but you do enjoy her company and really you are just being yourself and this is how you are naturally. Just act like you dont really care that much, defuse the situation, get her thinking "its all in my head, im overreacting on this guy." Then change the subject hopefully to something funny or a bit more energetic. This wont work if you are laying on too much heat, of course.

Ultimately tho, with a girl like this, you are playing by her rules as far as the bigger picture goes. Sucks, but thats the way it is. Ive lost enough dead sexy women to exactly this situation, hope my mistakes can help you out some. Just give it time, even if you get into the only friends zone, you can always dig your way back out later.

EDIT: Left out the physical side of it, sorry. Ok this is up to you and how you think she is feeling. Its a tricky one, really. She thinks you are hot, she wants to break out of her mental slump from her ex, but you dont want to end up being the rebound fuck. Thats the guy who gets laid ONCE and never called back, because she ends up with massive remorse or insta-shelves you as "I just did him because of my own problems now."

I would accept initial kino, let it escalate if she is escalating, then push away a bit. Tell her you dont want to be "that guy" since you are worth more than that (you should always be playing as a high value man, no matter who the girl is), tell her honestly "ok I think you are sexy, obviously I want you, but maybe not right now.." then let her sit on it a few and then kino her back up again. Just a bit, take her hand and squeeze, if she goes for another kiss, do it... but really hold your ground on sex. Make her realize you mean it. Its a real subtle line you have to toe, but if you can balance it out and get her to play this push/pull game (dont push/pull too hard, the woman is stressed so it has to be soft) for at least some days, preferably a week, then you have a much much greater chance of not ending with the one night (or three day) stand.

Fuck her too fast tho, especially if she's drunk, and you wont see her again. Thats nearly 100% in my field testing.

Daggaz...OK, cool advice I think. She seems very straightforward to me, but not that open. (What I mean is that she seems very capable of saying what she wants/doesn't want, but it doesn't seem that she comes out with everything she's thinking or feeling...so I do see her comments as genuine, but I also think there's plenty more she's not saying.)

She sent me an email suggesting a place for lunch since I didn't answer her call. (Good sign I think. Of course, I do have her check book! LOL) I'm thinking I'll reply saying "cool choice, see you there", but then give her a little excerpt to throw her a little off-kilter. Here's what I plan to say, let me know what you think.

**********************
I was thinking about your comments Sunday night and today. I want you to know that I completely understand that you are in the process of healing. I've been there recently myself, as you know. (Although, I have to admit even though we only technically separated a month ago, we had been "emotionally separated" for several months.) I understand firsthand some of the things you mentioned, like the ex not supporting your passion for dance. I spent most of 12 years supporting just about everything my estranged wife wanted to do, while getting little or no support back in my aspirations or challenges. Gets old doesn't it? I can imagine how you probably feel. Sounds to me like you probably made the right choice, so I hope that thought is uplifting to you. Just so you know, I'm a pretty good listener and reasonably wise...I even give some halfway decent advice occasionally...LOL. If you ever need to talk to just unload, feel free to call me or email me. A lot of folks have helped me through some tough times, and I try pay it forward.

Anyway, as I mentioned Sunday night, I generally just say what I think or feel, so here goes...take it at face-value, OK? I like you and you obviously like me. That said, I really wouldn't want to be your "rebound guy". (I'm not THAT easy! ) I'm looking for a relationship that's fun but also has some depth and will last more than a few weeks, but I'm not in any hurry...the right person is much more important than the relationship itself. Emotional intimacy is the thing I value most...I quite enjoy knowing how someone else feels, what they think, etc. You strike me as having a lot of depth, so that's very appealing to me.

So...why don't we just get to know each other as human beings? If that leads somewhere cool, then great. If it doesn't, then I'll ask you for a dance at the Elks Lodge (AFTER I've had a few Swing lessons!) and we'll leave it that. Neither one of us has anything to lose, so why not?

I can tell you are going through a tough time, so here's a few uplifting thoughts for you. Tough times always remind me of four important things:

1) Live in the present. Don't lament the past, and don't try to plan a future you can't control. Take advantage of any simple joy that's right in front of you.

2) Tell the people you love that you love them. (And don't forget to show it...words are cheap, actions are not.)

3) Realize that people come into, and go out of, your life for a reason. You might not know what that reason is at the time, but it'll be obvious down the road. Trust your instincts and don't over-think (and try not to over-feel either, although sometimes that's difficult).

4) And my own inclusion...don't forget to party like a rock star!

See ya Thursday!

************************************************

What do you think?

Gruuve

_________________
Divorced dude having a good life.

This sounds like a lot of you trying to QUALIFY yourself to her. Just use the
line from "What Women Want". I do not remember the line, if I did, I would
post it. Go rent the movie and fast forward to the part where Mel Gibson is
talking to a goth chick in a coffee shop (I think it is a coffee shop).

The line is along the lines of I know you've been hurt before in the past, I
have to, blah blah blah...let's just take it slow... And he winds up banging
that girl. The line he uses was pure GOLDEN.
I think this is good.
This is a little tricky... I like it. It tells her, sub-consciously, that you do in
fact have other girls that you could be out with right now, instead, you
chose to be out with her.
Being honest. Best approach for this girl. I am starting to sense a mPUA
in you Gruuve. Are you sure you need our help here? XD

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mPUA? Pffft...not yet, but maybe I'll get there with a little help and advice! I think I am a natural at building an emotional connection...but you have to get to that point first.

OK, I've shortened it a bit...I think I like this better:

******************************************************

I was thinking about your comments Sunday night and Monday. I want you to know that I completely understand that you've been hurt and are healing. I've been there recently myself, as you know. Just so you know, I'm a pretty good listener and reasonably wise...I even give some halfway decent advice occasionally! If you ever need to talk to just unload, feel free to call me or email me. A lot of folks have helped me through some tough times, and I try to pay it forward.

Anyway, as I mentioned Sunday night, I generally just say what I think or feel, so take this at face-value, OK? I like you and you like me. That said, I really wouldn't want to be your "rebound guy" (I'm not THAT easy! ). I'd much rather see your true colors after you've had time to heal. I can't see any reason to not get to know each other as human beings...neither one of us has anything to lose, right? If something really nice eventually develops from that, then great. If not, I'm still glad I met you.

I know you are going through a tough time, so here's a few uplifting thoughts for you. Tough times always remind me of four important things:

1) DECIDE to live in the present. DECIDE to not lament the past nor try to plan a future you can't control. Take advantage of any simple joy that's right in front of you. Some great moments are lost forever if you don't embrace them.

2) Tell the people you love that you love them. (And don't forget to show it...words are cheap, actions are not.) We never know if we'll talk to the people we love again...make sure it's the conversation you'd want to carry with you.

3) Realize that people come into, and go out of, your life for a reason. You might not know what that reason is at the time, but it'll be obvious down the road. Trust your instincts and don't over-think it.

4) Party like a rock star! When you're feeling down, get out and have some fun to take your mind off it all.

See ya Thursday!

**********************************************************

Better?

I think I'll wait a while to send her the reply...probably tommorrow late morning or early afternoon.

Gruuve

_________________
Divorced dude having a good life.

She will find this out on her own. Again, you are QUALIFYING yourself to her.
No. You are putting yourself into the LJBF category with this statement.
Don't make yourself another one of her "girl friends" that she can turn to
for advice.

A lot of folks have helped me through some tough times, and I try to pay it forward.
I know I didn't comment on this line before, I passed it up I guess... but...
Showing your sweet side in a covert way. And this also can be read into as
I don't want to be with you, you have too much baggage for me right now,
after you get your shit together, call me.
So you're saying that she means NOTHING to you?
You are already saying that you don't want to get with her. At least this
is how she will interpret this. Or, she will take this as a challenge. This line
is a tricky one yet again... XD
I didn't comment on this earlier either. I read into a little more this time
around XD... Are you ready for my comments on it Gruuve? XD

Pointing out the obvious to her will only bring those bad memories up again
in her mind... do you really want those bad memories to be associated with
you? I didn't think so.

I know, I am harsh, bashing all your well thought out lines and whatnot..
but, I call it like I see it man..

NOTE: Of course, this is only MY opinion of the lines/chat...

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