Alright, so I've been reading about how to get better with girls ever since I've been in high school, starting with david deangelo and branching out to pretty much everything. I'm 20 years old now and I've still never had a girlfriend before. I feel like I'm missing out on a lot in life, I love girls but I've been shy as far back as I can remember. I've turned alot of that around, I have more friends now, lots of parties and a really nice job. I've had sex before when I was in highschool and I've messed around with girls before It just never ends up working out.

Girls always tell me I'm really cute and I have no problem in that area I just always end up screwing stuff up.... anyway, I met this one chick in film class last year and I like her a lot. We never really talked but I got her facebook and we started hanging out awhile ago. She's really hot and one of the coolest girls I've ever met. Last weekend she was at a party and we went to grab a beer from my closet. I shut the door and we made out for like 15 minutes and she was definitely having a good time. She told me she's been waiting for me to make a move and I told her we should go find her friend. She ended up leaving afterward... but we made out a couple more times before she left. I started texting her the next day and it went bad. She ended up telling me she hates me and I haven't heard from her since.

me: Whatup xxx

Her: I just woke up :/ what are you doing

Her: What are you doing today

Me: Nothing to special, we should blaze or something

Her: Yeah! no school tomorrow

Me: Lol, u wouldnt go to class anyway

Her: Your sweet

Her: (her brother) and I have to go to my moms for her birthday, but he wants to know if he could get a bag later

Me: Ya he just got more of that stuff, tell him to give me a call

Her: What are you doing tonight mister

Me: IDK yet, what r u up to

(Way Later)

Her: Snuggling (her GF)

(Next Day)

Her: I think I got the flu walking home from your place

Me: Oh, so ur the one who got me sick, way to go XXX

Her: You! You are the one who got me sick. How could you

Me: Thats what u get for walking home, you should have stayed.

Her: (her friend) needed more booze. I hope I did get you sick

Me: Someone did, it sucks

Her: Sore Throat?

Me: ya

Me: It's hard to smoke XXX, u suck

Her: You are the one to blame for this cold

Me: whatever, ur the crazy one

Her: You spread cooties

Me: Girls have cooties loser

Her: You have alot of sass for being so sick

Me: I'm always on top of my game

Her: (My dog) is mad at you for getting me sick. She has no one to chase around

Me: then quit playing with yourself and throw her a toy or something

Me: We should hang out later I'll run around with (her dog)

Her: Yea we should hang out. I have a fever now thanks to you

Me: Someones gotta play with (her dog)

Her: I cant even stay awake for more than 2 hours

(Next Day)

Her: I have class till nine. can I get a bag for XXX

Me: no, I've got a busy week

Her: Want a burger with those french cries

Me: It's a waaburger and french cries loser

Her: I hate you

Me: Whatever, ur just a hater

Any suggestions, after reading it now I feel like a dick. She's a really cool girl and I was going a little overboard, My grandma just died and I've been really stressed out from school and work. It's the first time I've ever been mean to her and I feel like I should tell her I'm sorry or something. This only happened today so I feel like I could probably still patch things up... I just don't wanna fuck it up anymore

Hey mate,

Hope I can be of assistance.

There are quite a few things you said which I found slightly cringing but it's too long to point them all out.

In my opinion one does have to 'play the bad guy' to an extent but this doesn't necessarily mean just dismantling a girl's happiness.
You bet!

First and foremost (IN MY OPINION) don't apologise directly. You're just losing the frame and fucking yourself over. I always want to apologise when I for whatever reason make the girl feel bad, but for some reason (I don't really know why) most of the time the girls attraction for me just becomes zero as soon as I apologise.

What I do now is to ask genuine questions to show them that I care, instead of apologising.

E.g.

Rafiel: "Hey Lucy, how are you feeling today are you good?" (Arm on shoulder, eye contact)

Lucy: "Yeah not bad."

Rafiel: "No really, how are you feeling, I'm genuinely interested in if you're ok."

etc etc.

I think the reason why the above works for me is because I maintain a very strong frame and mentality, not sure if it will work for everyone. That's the first thing. The second thing is texting.

I always say this and I don't know how true it is but in my opinion texting without a motive/outcome/goal (e.g. texting to meet up) can only make things worse. In general I never text. It's fucking lame man! Ok biases aside, whatever.
Here you should have sealed a deal and worked out logistics to close her. You really should have f-closed her. What you have to understand is that f-closing her is not just for you, it's also for her...it makes the relationship work for her because that's what she really wants. A guy to lead her all the way to the bedroom, lead lead lead, not some AFC who 'takes things slowly' and doesn't understand her true womanly desires.

Anyway back to texting. Stop texting to text, and start texting to meet up. Not 'yeah we should meet up sometime' but 'I'm going to xxx on xxxday you can come if you like, meet at xxxpm, but only if you behave yourself (smiley face).'

Just keep ploughing until you meet up. You can correct any DLV of asking her lots of times etc once you meet up, but you can't fuck her overt he phone.

The third thing is closing. You have to close her, soon!! The primary reason why she said she hates you (she doesn't by the way, that means she likes you), is that she needs to be closed soon or you'll lose the game with her.

Let me put it this way. A lot of guys new to the community read all this stuff about negs, push/pull, being unreactive and not caring, ignoring the hot girl etc. But sometimes, you need to see through that the girl just wants you to fuck her. Just understand her subcommunication and stop all the PUA lines. She likes you, she wants you (why the hell would she waste so much time texting you if not), so instead of the usual IOD/neg/pushpull/being unreactive/whatever, just accept it and set up a time when she can express that desire for you in acrobatic ways.

So instead of:
I would have actually replied with "I love you", that would have been gold at that point, but anyway, the subcommunication is that she does not hate you, it's that she's infatuated (to some extent) with you, so you replying like a defensive pussy must have been a big turn off for her. You should have just responded with anything you would have if she said "i love you".

Now, next time you see her, f-close her. You have to, you owe it to her, or you will be ditched or friend-zoned because she won't judge you capable of being a man.

4th and final thing: You are a fun and awesome guy and you don't really need her to be this amazing person, but you'll let her entertain you and if she's good enough she might get lucky. THAT should be your mindset.
The above is just being too needy. It's fine to find out what she's up to etc, but either fucking COMMAND her to go out with you tonight, or just don't ask. In between is no man's land.

To summarise, four main points:

1. Don't apologise.
2. Stop texting and set up a date.
3. Be the man she wants you to be and f-close her.
4. Don't be needy.

I guarantee you if you follow these steps you'll get a relationship from her.

This is all just my opinion, hope it helps buddy.

Hey man, thanks for the advice. Very helpful. I've been feeling pretty down lately and the whole situation doesn't help. I genuinely felt like an asshole because I was too busy being retarded to get over there and seal the deal. I just hope I haven't screwed things up...

Are you saying I shouldn't text her anymore... I see what you mean, texting is lame, trying to game like that never goes anywhere for me. But... I feel like If I call her she's gonna ignore my call. What'd be the next best move? should I text her over for a movie or something and see if she takes the bait. I don't want to wait too long or she might write me off for good.

No problem buddy. Yeah I get that sometimes when I just can't be bothered to close the girl, but yeah, if you don't then you're likely to lose her/get LBJF'd.

I think freeze her out for a day or two, then call her. If she doesn't answer, no problem, you can leave voicemail or text; keep ploughing. You don't know why she might not answer, it might be a genuine reason. But, if she does answer, she will really appreciate the fact that you called. It means you're serious, to a girl. I don't know why but personally I don't leave voicemail. Maybe it works I don't know, never tried it. At the same time not everything has to 'work' or not 'work', different things work for different people and girls.

The way I recommend talking/texting her is to qualify her then ask her out. Sounds like she's been interested enough in you so you should ride on this and stop dodging the bullets - hopefully the last conversation hasn't done too much damage. The only worry I have about this is that girls always have to feel as if they have 'earned' you, some stupid girl thing. So we will make her qualify first =)

If you can see her in person that's by far the best solution, but I'm going to presume you can't. If you can, just be confident and dominant, shoot the shit with her then suggest she come out with you at x time on x day.

So, specifically, text/call something like this:

GREYFOX: "Hiya HB, you crazy turtle. Did you hear about x? Got me thinking...would you y?"

HB: "Yeah/no I'd probably..."

GREYFOX: "You know, that's pretty cool. I actually like you, when I first met you I thought you'd be like every other girls. Some girls are far too forward with me! But you have depth. Let's meet at **** time on **** day. Don't forget to bring kisses =)"

HB: "omgomgomgogmgomgogmgmgom fuck me"
(Ok she probably wouldn't say that haha).

The conversation is written as a text, but hopefully when/if you call you can use it in a more loose structure. Here, x = something on the news you heard, or some story about what a friend did, or some celebrity. Then y = would you do what he/she/celebrity did. I guess it's like an opinion opener that also gets her qualifying. People love to talk about what THEY would do, i.e. themselves, so we're giving her a high chance of replying and replying well.

If she says she is busy, just be unreactive and say that's cool. Then I would just be like "that's cool, see you later then." and abruptly end the conversation. This is a great freeze out, she will probably text you or something later. If you want to keep the ball in your court though, just say "that's cool. I'm really busy next few days doing (some DHV) so won't be able to meet up then. When's good for you crazy turtle?" Mention you've got a busy schedule seeing lots of friends if you're on the phone. That makes you seem less needy.

Again if she says no or makes some bullshit excuse, be unreactive, say that's cool, carry on the conversation for 5 mins or end it there if you're freezing out, leave it for a day or two and try again. If you are having no success (I'm sure you will), then you need to meet her in person again at college or bump into her or something to rekindle the attraction.

Hope this helps, let me know how it goes buddy.

Hey, thanks for all the great advice. It's really helping my whole mindset dealing with this situation. She ended up texting me again last night... the whole conversation went something like this.

Her: did you have fun with my brother today
(were in film class together)

Me: I always have fun with XX(her brother)

Her: Yea... Dirty Fun

Me: someone sounds jealous

Her: There you go with that sass again

Her: and don't act like you and XX(her brother) don't snuggle

Me: OMG, he told u about that

Me: what a slut

Her: ooo those are some fighting words

Her: but when it comes to sluts you take the cake

(Long pause)

Her: Sorry that was XXX (her dog)

Me: Tell XX (her dog) she has a dirty mouth

and that was the end of it... So how am I doing, I need some feedback on my game. I've got some internal issues I'm really trying to iron out. I want to invite her over this weekend to blaze and watch a movie... what are your thoughts on that? She's a pretty big pot head and so am I. Another issue comes up too, I have roomates and it's always akward hiting on girls in front of them (they rarely leave the house). They're all really cool people it's just nice to get in some alone time. She's had me over to her place before and she lives alone, how do I go about setting something up over there.

Hey man, glad to know I'm helping, and thanks for the update.

Haha, I can't bare the problems in subcommunication anymore so I'm gonna give you a lesson, in my opinion, of subcommunication. Take it or leave it.

Ok, this whole conversation is about subcommunication. Subcommunication is basically what the girl ACTUALLY means when she says something, the classic is "You're not getting any from me tonight" really means "I need to know you better first."
She doesn't give two shits about whether you had fun with her brother today (although I like your answer, it's always good to get on well with family members). The subcommunication is:

"I want to talk to you and this is a random and relevent/socially acceptable way of starting the conversation."

If in doubt, answer the subcommunication. Something like, "hey, nice to hear from you, ya bad girl." You don't ALWAYS have to play hard to get and be the badboy.
Haha, ok. When she said Dirty Fun, the subcommunication was probably:

"Ok, let's get down to business. I want this guy, but is he worthy? Is he mature enough to understand my motives and girl nature? If he is then I'll sleep with him."

I say 'probably' because the subcommunication is not always clear, but most of the time it is (atleast for me, you will get better with time). You will probably know the subcommunication here better as you are more calibrated with her.

Anyway, this could be treated as a minor shit test, but the point is mate YOU FAILED! This is what it's like, literally. The girl is trying to grab your cock into her kitty hole, but you are pulling it away. That's the best way to put it to you.

There are many ways to deal with this, but the ones that are most relevent here:

1. Agree and exaggerate
HB: "Yea... Dirty Fun"
PUA: "Totally, in fact your brother is my new lover. That would make us incest!"

2. Be uncreactive
PUA: "Haha, yeah. (insert new conversational thread)"

3. role reversal
PUA: "Just how you like it eh?"

Ok, you don't have to use the incest part, but I was side hugging a two set whilst sarging them (couldn't decide which one I wanted haha) and I was just vibing with a sexual frame, hadn't given any IOI's or SOI's yet, and they are like (this is the first and last time I used Style's '....because you two are my little sisters' line. Don't know why, i don't use routines) "that would make us incest" and in the back of my mind I was thinking "hold on a sec, they are already connecting me with sleeping with them, I haven't even done shit yet!"

Anyway, I digress. Basically, you really should not have attacked her for in essence, giving you an IOI in disguise. She gave you a gift by starting a sexual thread, and you punished her for it. Hence her reply about you being sassy. She doesn't like that, so don't do it!
Lol dude, in my opinion you should stop busting on her and just freaking qualify her/show some interest/compliment as I explained in my previous post, then set up the date. Eventually if you keep up the cocky/derogatory frame of mind she will just leave.
Girls don't like being called sluts. She likes you, so she didn't take it too bad, but she had to protect her dignity and hit you back. That's the subcommunication. She doesn't actually think or care about you liking sluts.

Anyway. The way to get a date at hers is do what I said in my last post, then when she agrees to meet at a time and date, say "at your place". Basically invite yourself over. If you want you can give her some plausible deniability so she can backward rationalise later why she slept with you and give her a reason: "Let's burn at your place, my roommates keep trying to rape me." (I hate the word rape, but sometimes it's the perfect word.)

Alternatively, a more surefire way is to meet somewhere nearby that is social/easy and you are both comfortable with. From there you can bounce to hers.

The final important thing to say, is mate, SHE LIKES YOU, and SHE WANTS TO FUCK YOU. I often find you know if you're gonna get the lay (assuming logistics are find) very early in the set. You got the lay here as long as you play your cards right.

In future remember, if in doubt, answer the subcommunication!

Thanks again, all of this is very helpful. Theres a lot of things about my game that are screwing me over and I feel like they're invisible to me. It gets a little frustrating but it's nice to have someone capable of pointing them out to you. All I know, is that I'm sick and tired of being an AFC. I'm happy that you don't recomend using canned material, the thought of memorizing lines to pick up girls makes me want to cringe.

For the record though, I wasn't calling HER a slut. I was calling her brother one as a joke, I believe the text really said he's a slut... probably doesn't matter though.

Anyway, It's the weekend now and I have a clear schedule so it's time to get some action. I'll let you know how things go, hopefully I can put another notch on my belt.

Some awesome advice here Rafiel, had to give this thread a 5 star rating. Subcommunication is everything, had great problems with spotting it myself in the past, had one girl basically begging me to take her out on valentines day but I blew it because I couldn't see through what she was saying and translate it into what she was really saying.

_________________
"My toughest opponent is always myself"
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^Yeah, for me that's the saddest possible thing about attraction and AFC's. The girl could literally be begging for him to pull her, but he'll be too shy and what could be a great relationship is never to be, and they never see each other again.

Well, glad I helped and look forward to hearing how Fox get's on.

Alright, so I went over to her house the other day to burn down and things went pretty well. At first I got really high and was sort of psyching myself out but we ended up hanging out all night. We didn't do anything at first except for smoke weed, talk, watch tv and smoke cigarettes. She was feeling pretty hungover from the other night and told me she felt like hanging around the house, hadn't showered etc. By the end of the night I ended up holding hands with her and it was a little awkward so I told her to move in closer. We ended up cuddling for a little bit and watching tv... I finally decided to make a move and we started making out. After awhile we moved it to her bed and played around. We didn't go all the way, she seemed pretty into it. She told me she'd never had a guy in her bed before and it'd been a long time since she'd had sex sober (shes really hot just a bit of a basket case). It seemed a little awkward for her and she wasn't making a whole bunch of advances, I got her shirt off and everything but she wasn't giving me much to work with. She was grabbing at me, moaning and stuff but we never went all the way. after I started fingering her she came and told me she was feeling really tired and all the action was upsetting her stomach. She said she wanted to hang out with me when she was feeling better. I told her that was alright and hung around for awhile and watched TV/cuddled before heading back to my house for the party.

I ended up leaving my car there because the battery was dead and stopped by to pick it up this morning. I went inside to "let my battery charge" and she burned me down and we chilled for a couple minutes before I peaced out. She also told me to call her If I felt like hanging out and that she was feeling better.

One thing she said while we were on her bed is that I was quite and being really serious. What are some good ways to lighten the mood when you're trying to close a girl. I don't always talk alot when things get heated up, and she seems like the kind of chick that needs that. She also said she doesn't like eye contact and was kind of avoiding my eyes when I'd pull away from kissing her. I like this girl but she seems pretty complicated. I need a little help here. It'd be nice to F-close her and get rid of all the tension built up around it.

When things are getting steamy and the girl isn't totally into it, but is, but isn't, but is... hard to explain... i usually go "just relax" and i let my toung do the rest, but you have to beable to read the situation. If a girl doesn't want to bed you it will just make things worse, but if she does, but is nervous or somthing then it works out well.

What i would've said... "Omg.. I never knew we had so much in common "