my question is: how far in this model can you come without seeing the HB in real life???

I have this HB 8 whom with i think am at C1 or even between C1 and C2

only trough msn. am i talking shit here or is this possible? Now i want to meet her end go to s3 of course, is there anuthing i should bear in mind? should i hold on at C1 / C2 for the first meet? or can i go to C3?

The basic rules of attraction still apply. They don't disappear. But put simply, the things that are discussed that require in-person experience (such as kino escalation), require indeed just that at some point.

Even if you met a girl online who was totally into having sex, for example, and you've been talking to her online... once you meet her you are going to need to build up to that level of comfort still (comfort as in, comfortable with you touching her).

yes so i think where i am right now, between C1 and C2 is as far as i can get online! now i will meet her and begin at C1

I'd think you've got to start at A2 when meeting her in person tbh.

yeah you start over again when you actually meet in RL for the first time, its pretty rare for it to just bang off between two people who've only been chatting online without at least some time spent getting accustomed to eachothers physical presence.

with a target HB, you will have to prove attraction as well as build physical comfort before you can assume you are on the same level as your online chatting was at.

at least you dont have to open tho, so A2. Have fun.

Yeah I made this mistake which is how I know.

She met me (we love some 200 miles apart) after speaking to me constantly for 2 months! We'd done all sorts of crap online and the vibe was good, flirting, being suggestive, so I figured all I had to do was build comfort in person, wrong.

She met me, screamed in excitement and hugged me, she was a HB9, I thought I was in there. So we went for a few drinks and talked about various crap, by the time I realised I'd fucked up it was too late.

Please tell me more about that situation!!! What went wrong, and what was it you should have done?

We also live far apart, so listen to this: She said she doesnt mind driving 2 hours towards me, (we would meet in the middle somewhere)

But i havent made it concrete since how i see it: the fact that i would drive 2 hours for her, is SOI from me and also from HER (A2 and A3) and since you cant advance on internet, when we talk, its comfrteble chatting,

it is fucked, internet! What would be a way to get her now? She clearly likes me! Me driving 2 hours to see her, would ruine it!

maybe i can get hetr to come all the way here! but in thjat case she should sleep here! haha i dont mind but she will i guess, difficult situation this

man its not all black and white with PU like that. Doing something for a girl does not automatically SOI you or disqualify you or DLV you. In fact, sometimes not doing it will DLV you.

Here you are chatting with this girl. You both know the other one is interested and attracted, so its not like you are giving anything about your game away there. Why not meet her in the middle? Show you are on level ground and willing to invest at least as much as she is willing to invest in you.

If I was the girl and I said Im willing to meet halfway and the guy, for whatever reason, said I had to go the full 4 hours, I would immediately get the idea that he doesnt really care about me all that much, probably just hoping for an easy fuck.

That said, there had better be something real cool to do between you two. I mean, who the fuck wants to drive 2 hours to meet a relative stranger and sit in a coffee shop and have an awkward date? I would be looking for something really zany crazy and adventurous, a real day-filler. That, or I would as you wanted to do convince her to come all the way out, but promise to really make it up to her and make good on that promise. Once again, a crazy adventure date that will leave her breathless. As well, she needs to have some kind of trust situation as to where she is going to sleep. "Theres a nice hotel nearby its not too expensive" which she hopefully will never see, or you can put her in the guestroom over at your parents house who live nearby, or you have some girlfriends with an extra room, whatever. Point is if the date goes well, she will end up sleeping with you anyways..

Now thats the big picture, when you finally do meet up and start talking face to face, then you play catstring and be the prize and get her to comply and all that fun stuff. Its really the small subtle points where you get the most points for doing stuff like that. Not by making her drive half way across the states just to be blessed with your presence.

we know each other almost a year, and first i had relation what went sour, and then a few months ago she had a BF, but we always stayed in touch, and for some reason we got talking more and more again, i really like her, not just as a HB, (does dat make me a AFC ? ) but your tip to do a real cool date iso just drinking something in a coffee shop, is a good tip! i was also thinking like: no ive put it on hold, to say: i have to be near there (some place half by) to do something (for work i have to travel). So i will be there anyways, and therefor it is an SOI from her if she does travel 2 hours for me!

Just on that catstring stuff i ll have to learn what that is!

Great question! Sorry that I'm just now seeing it though. I have actually come up with a model for online dating. I have shared this model with others who excel with online dating and they find the steps to be accurate as well.

It's a mix of the M3 model and different theories. So here is the 5 step model. I talked about it a bit in my online dating workshop this summer, and then on my blog.

It's an audio file that's about 53 minutes if you want to listen.
http://www.jsmooth.org/Documents/OnlineWorkshop.wav

be patient when downloading.

--------------------------------

1. Prepare
2. Open
3. Attract/Establish Rapport
4. Escalate Comfort
5. Setup a Date

Prepare - includes writing a profile, taking pictures, planning what DHV spikes are going in the profile for the dating site or networking site. Gathering openers you are going to use. And then scouting out the girls profile.

Open - pretty self explanatory. If she starts responding back we have something to work with. If not then wait a while and try again. If two times no responses then move on.

Attract/Establish Rapport. This is the biggest phase of online game. You are basically telling your stories and encouraging her to tell her stories by asking open ended questions. You emailed her or poker her, she knows you interested so there is no need to hide that.

During these stories you are going to pepper in the DHV spikes. These need to be true stories about you and congruent with who you are or she'll see through it.

Anyways, in her stories you are going to ground yourself in her reality with common points. Without comfort you won't be able to get an IM address or a phone number, let alone a date later.

Escalate Comfort. You are going to continue a lot of comfort building. THis can take place in a few emails back and forth, sometimes and hour or so of IM, or talking on the phone. Each new level of contact with the girl is a new comfort level. Email - IM - Phone - Date. We have to make her comfortable enough with us that she'll give us this info and know she can hang with us. BUT we have to pepper in push/pull and attraction spikes through the conversation so we don't get LJBF'd.

If the repsonses are flowing fast via email, and you have great conversation going on. Then try for a phone number then! If it's not as good or you're not sure then go to IM first. This way you can take a real time approach to conveying your personality.

*Be careful of negs and false disqualifiers. It's okay to use them but they can easily be taken wrongly online. The reason for this is she can't see the "way" you say them and know they're playful. For this reason use smileys or emoticons when you can so it has a more playful tone.

Setup a Date. Final step and self explanatory.

That's my methodology in a nutshell!

Hope it helps,

Jon

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Been around the world twice, Talked to everyone once...

Hey Jon,

good work on that! imo online is very Bigg nowadays! a lot of HB's of what i know are going out with their CB friends and just whant to dance etc, on msn they are more open. And also some men dont have the money, energy, time to go out alot! so i want to learn more on this! in a way i am good in online playing, getiing dates is not so difficult imo. But what you say i dont agree with, because even if you have a date, things are different!!!!! then if you met them irl. in 99% of the cases the HB has told you personal shit online, and have you build comfort. and made suggestible remarks. But when you meet , you cant go on on that line! You have to take a step back because it is very likely she will have start seeing you as a friend! What also is a problem is even when you have the date, bridging the time until then! that is because you cant advance further online. That is fucked. I am having this problem right now, i dont want to appear needy so i havent made concrete plans for the date, and after the BTSpike when i asked her out, i took some distance and didn t talk to her for 2 days. but now she is playing games on me i think, talking to lots of guys on facebook and putting all sorts of names in her msn making it look she is advancing with someone else! i didn t go in on it, (although i made one little mistake of wich i hope it is not deadly)

but now i am feeling stuck !!! she was being short and putting on a bit of a BS, i need to get the meet, so that i can advance, but now with her putting on the BS it is difficult for me getting the date WITHOUT coming over like needy

Tips anyone???


greets

First of all, some people need to realize what online game really is. It's not like day or night game. Which I'm tired of these terms but I've ranted about there elsewhere.

Anyways, Online or Phone "game" just gets you back in front of the girl PERIOD! That is all it is designed to do. Once you get the girl in front of you it's up to you to do whatever. I agree with you that if you continue on comfort then you're headed for the friends zone.

The goal of online is to get a date that sticks and you meet. You still have to go back and do attraction and comfort building as normal. You just have the additional advantage of your conversations from online for her to know something about you already and giving you things to talk about.

Online game ends when you meet the girl or have a phone number. Then those techniques take over. It's a sub-section of game and should not be used as a primary way to meet women. You should still go out and meet people traditionally to develop your skills better.

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Been around the world twice, Talked to everyone once...