Ok, I know this one might be a bit controversial but it's just based on my own experiences and my own reading. Feel free to argue with it because maybe there's something, or many things, I'm missing.

I'm pretty sure I would be correct to say that opinion openers are by far the most popular type of opener in the community, especially amongst people just starting out. This probably results from them taking such predominance in the early Mystery Method teachings.

But of the various types of opener out there (functional, screening, situational, direct etc) to me it seems, without doubt, the most flawed and least universally applicable.

The opinion opener's strenght lies mainly in its ability to "come in under the radar" and move quickly towards more relaxed conversation (A2 for those of you most familiar with the M3 model) without too much thought going into a transition phase. But here's where I feel it's over-rated. With a little practice it's actually quite easy to deliver a congruent transition from a functional or situational opener. Whereas the more ballsy openers such as direct or screening, though involving higher risk, don't need a real transition phase at all and in some cases can even skip straight to qualification.

With that in mind, the main 'pro' of the opinion opener is largely negated with just a little extra work or a little extra risk (that extra risk isn't even such a big deal if you have strong inner game... and of course if you don't yet have particularly strong inner game, which comes largely from positive results over time, you can simply use one of the less risky opener-types with a transition).

So the question, now, is "does the small amount of extra work required for other opener-types outweigh the negative aspects of the opinion opener"? And, as I'm sure you guessed, I say yes!

So what are the negative aspects of the opinion opener? Well for me the main one is the lenght and complexity of most of them. There are really very few situations where, I feel, you can walk up to a complete stranger and hold their attention for a full-lenght opinion opener. Lets say you're in a loud bar or club, in order to deliver an opinion opener fully you have to practically shout in the persons ear. It's practically impossible to then move into normal conversation in such an environment. Considering that, in a bar or a club, most girls are out to pull anyway and already have reasonably high buying temperature, it's probably much better to use a screening or direct opener. Lets take a day-game approach, the girl is busy, possibly on her way to something important. It's very hard to add value to a girl by stopping her and delivering this long winded question regarding your life. Wouldn't it be much better to simply ask a basic functional question that, by social conditioning, she feels compelled to answer? "Excuse me, do you know somewhere around here that does good coffee"? From that, with a bit of extra work you can transition to some very short normal conversation followed by a #close. Even in places where an opinion opener might normally be used, I have personally found this type of functional opener/transition to be much more effective for building a basic level of comfort in order to begin the interaction.

Another problem with opinion openers, again related to their lenght, is the difficulty with memorising them. I personally find it very difficult to remember and delivery an entire opinion opener while still concentrating on my body language, tone of voice etc.

My third main problem would be delivering them with any kind of congruence. Lets say you're in a club and decide to open a 2-set with something resembling the Jealous Girlfriend opener. You walk across an entire room to ask this random group of girls their opinion on the matter when there were 2 not as attractive girls standing almost next to you! Kinda kills the whole "coming in under the radar" aspect. At least if you use a more direct opener you are being congruent. And what's more, you're showing confidence and some kind of an understanding of female sexuality.

I'm sure many will disagree with this but it's an important point I had to make, even if just for myself. Essentially, for night game I say go with screening and direct openers... for day game use functional and situational with a transition. This is obviously an over simplification. Direct game can work wonders during the day while situational openers can sometimes be your best bet in a bar or club. But that all comes with a sensible appraisal of the situation at hand

Good stuff, fish. Opinions have their place... just not as openers. I like to find out what girls think about certain things while on a day 2 with them, or if something pops up during conversation when I first approach. It's more natural, I mean if you approach a girl to get her opinion on something do you really think she's so naive not to realise it's an excuse to talk to her? Sure, if she likes you then she'll go with it cos she's happy that you're talking to her, but get this - if she likes you, flying under the radar is unnecessary. Indirect openers are there to make you feel secure, so that if she doesn't like you then it's no big deal - after all, it's not like you were hitting on her and that's why she turned you down! Nope, it was because of calibration or some shit, yeah that's it. What you said about strong inner game is very true... indirect stuff is just there to protect weak frames from being damaged. Seriously, if I approached direct and got shot down, then went back in time and approached the same girl with something indirect, I can guarantee the outcome would be exactly the same... it'd just take longer and she'd be more polite about it.

I actually use direct stuff nomatter where I am. It's honest, weeds out the time wasters straight away, and most importantly, it's fun. Of course it's important to have a balance between hitting on her and having normal conversation so you're able to judge her better and not appear as some kind of sex pest. Another thing with direct stuff, you can't go for number closes in day game too quickly as it will result in the boyfriend defense. You have to keep the interaction relaxed, have fun and make sure she's into you before you go for any kind of close.

so hold on - forgive me im still a rafc - an opionion opener is when you open the girl with a question on something? thats quite smooth. where can i find some?

An opinion opener is probably the most popular type of pua opener. It's when you approach and open a set by asking them their opinion on something, usually relating to relationships, celebrities or something else that women are expected to be interested in. They're good for people just getting started in pick-up because they allow you to open a set and transition into what the M3 model would refer to as A2 without too much fear of rejection. You could find loads of these in any book based on MM (VA handbook, Magic Bullets, Revelations) but they all recommend you come up with your own that relate to your own life.

My personal problem with them is that there are only a handful of pick-up situations that I have found them to be any way reliable and even those situations can usually be better dealt with using another type of opener. I find opinion openers to be the most difficult to deliver congruently, plus they're usually long meaning it can build a bit of AA knowing you have to walk up and deliver this whole spiel to a set.

Right on Fish. In the Bar/club approach, it's usually more trouble than it's worth. I'd say for day-game approaches though, especially if you are somewhere recreational (beach, theme park, even library, etc.) than these are the quickest and easiest to transition to A2...

My second thought about opinion openers is that more often than not, I prefer to keep it from being to ambiguous (Who is a better [movie star] [etc]) and stay with something a little more fact based. I know this one is a little lame, but I still enjoy using it...the "Is Khaki a fabric or color?" It's simple I know, but you can launch immediately into whatever canned material you have, while keeping on time constraint. This will easily let you back and forth until you get a number close. The possibility for flakes is high, but if you got tight game...and do this often enough, no worries. jj

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"You can't have no in your Heart" -Joe Dirt

Great post Punkyfish,
Well thought out and considered post.
You've basically summerised what I've been tending towards with my own game.

I'd just like to add that it does come down to congruence as you stated and there is still a place for opinion openers. Your example with the two hot girls over the two less attractive girls would be over come by me and my regular wind by moving towards them and having proximity, and then break off from our 'argument' to ask their opinion.

I tend to judge girls before I speak to them and there are times when I just couldn't pull off a congruent direct opener and fall back on the opinion opener. You can sense when girls have their shields set to max and calibration will teach you to select the best weapon from your armery.

i try to be direct and open. it makes ur whole game more natural and congruent.

girls respect it more especially if they get gamed alot