So, i have this long and complicated story. I need all the help i can get on this. Thanks every1.

I met this girl 2 years ago. started seeing her, and 3 weeks into everything she tells me she has a boyfriend. Didn't really change anything as he was away at college, and we both went to college locally. So everything was great for a few months, although he came home for holidays and things like that.
Then this girl tells me that shes falling in love with me, breaks up with her boyfriend only to get back with him a few weeks later. But tells me she needs me and stuff like that. We still hooked up and everything when he went back to school and as much as i felt like a dick, i couldn't help it b/c at this point i was totally head over heels for her. I also had both parents brother best friend and twin sister on my side.
So lets fast forward a few months. she breaks up with this loser for good, but doesn't tell me. i find out from a mutual friend. So she then comes clean and tells me shes going on a date. We went out a few weeks later and she told me she wants to marry me, and be with me but she just needs to do her own thing right now. So i told her like an AFC would that i would be there for her no matter what b/c i wanted to be with her too. I know.. dumbass!!
I never really heard much about any guy from her or any friends or family members. So her and I became very close again and would hook up occasionally. We ended up going away for a weekend right before valentine's day and it was great, basically we were a couple. I find out after we get back that she had been "dating" this guy for a few weeks when we went away.
I didn't speak to her for 6 months. Randomly i was hangin out with her sister and her sister's bf who i am friendly with and she happened to drop by. We talked and in talking i find out shes still with this guy but isn't happy. We become closer agian, but in the time we didn't speak i discovered all the PUA stuff, and i start gaming her, negs, future events, the whole 9. I thought i had my feelings in check for this girl and wouldn't fall for her again, but i am starting to. We hooked up again, and she told me she loved me and wants to marry me. all within about 3 weeks. Then she pulls the "you know i still have a boyfriend?"
Mistakenly i didnt ignore this and i asked her how she could tell me she loved me and things like that, and then pull the BF shit.
Since then i apologized for saying that and told her there was nothing to talk about at this point so forget it.
We had started talking about going away again before that, now im not sure what to do. Of course i'de love to go on vacation with her (which we split the cost of btw, im not that big of a chump), but i don't want to if shes still got a bf. we still have dinner and drinks before she works every friday and we go out a lot as well.
i have been using some boyfriend destroyers such as ignoring it completley, except for that 1 time, but i hesitate to bring him up b/c she never does.
How do I finally end this bullshit and get her for good?

I like your situation. Not because it is good for you, but it is a great example. You are with a girl who you've escalated with, and you two both seem to WANT to make things happen, but can't. You both want to take it to the next level, but there is something holding you back.


First off, is she not willing to leave her boyfriend for you?

Secondly, is it necessary in order for you to maintain a relationship with her, that she be monogamous?

She obviously loves her freedom; she may be too young to desire to 'settle,' but old enough to realize that she does want to have something serious with you in the future.

Unfortunately I can not answer your question. Escalating relationships is not like the other stuff - it can't be forced, and the use of frame control might work....but steering something into a relationship before it is properly ready will just lead to a crash in the end.

So ask yourself; is it necessary that you two be exclusive?

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You make some great points, and i really appreciate it.
I don;t know if she is willing to leave her boyfriend for me, I've never sprung that on her, I feel that i don' want to put that on her because then it might mess up everything.
As for monogamy, of course it bothers me that she is with someone else, and i would love to just be with her, but i don't want to force it becasue at this point, I'm not sure if I could trust her. But at the same time i enjoy the times we are together, and i don't want to lose her.
In the future I could see things working out for us, and from what i understand, the only thing that i need to do is let it happen by itself and be patient. But what am i supposed to do for now, as far as how i treat her? do i treat her like my girlfreind when i am with her, or do i not do romantic things, in order to make her want that back?
This girl is rediculously confusing.

I AM IN THE EXACT SAME SITUATION AS YOU MAN... how funny.

only diff is her bf made her change her number, and he acts like her dad, takes away her keys tells her what she can wear and shit... really insecure..
so she calls me private.

i think they like feeling needed by the bf but arent happy. just like feeling needed... idk

subscribed to this thread... lets get some feedback

Thats crazy man, my girl wouldn't deal with that shit, although she says to me all the time how theres things she needs to fix but she just doesn;t want to face it and deal with it.
I don;t know what these girls feel.. just re enforces the idea that they have no common sense lol.
Looks like we could both use the feedback, Locke is awesome.. hope he can impart some more knowledge our way.. Good Luck with yours!

You are just building the onion. This is where some people get mixed up; maybe you are on different onion levels than her? You have to gauge and ensure that you don't go deeper with her, than she with you.

"stay the course" keep acting the way you are...slowly toss in a little more emotion. then stop. wait for her to get a little more emotional. then when she stops, give it back. on and on. Don't withhold anything, but don't add too much. portion yourself but steadily escalate and if that is what she wants, SHE WILL FOLLOW. If she doesn't, then bam. Problem solved - you know that she isn't looking for anything more.

hope that helps

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If I were you, I would start dating other girls. If you want a serious relationship with her, she has to stop taking you for granted. You have to take control over the situation! So far it has been mostly her running things. She does stuff, you react. If it's okey for her to date others, it's okey for you too. Show her that if she wants you (for something more serious) she has to show some committment, or you'll be gone before she knows it. She's playing you man! Maybe not knowingly, but still.

BTW, Locke gives some great general relationship advice... but I think that before you get to the more advanced "onion parts" you have to get her more committed... As she is now, she can just flake out at any time

oMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGg YES! "Flake out at any time" Please tell me that is pun intended.

I agree with what you are saying; however, the onion layering is a method of going deeper and working towards a relationship. And as I said, he shouldn't go any deeper than she will go - that way if she does flake, he can too.

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update on my situation.. for some reason she called me private this morning... i answered, first time in a couple days.. she ended up giving me her number...

was texting all day she was serious saying shes scared to take a chance with me cause i talk to "all these other girls" or some shit..
ended up getting her over and boning her. she came all over my bed...

then she ended up stopping me saying she had to go.. i didnt stop her, then she calls saying she wished she didnt have to leave. that other guy kept blowing her up or some shit.

Make out bandit, please initiate your own thread if you would like to talk about your issues and or successes. Also, lay reports belong in the "lay reports" section. They are used for people to judge their situations with/against.

Please do not thread hijack anymore. I would also like to say, if you refrain from crudeness and raunchy narrating, you will receive a lot more feedback.

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I like the onion theory, it makes a lot of sense. and yes, Locke what you said defiantly helped.
In response to dronten, i have dated other girls, nothing serious, but its not like i sit home and pine over this girl. I go out and get what i need from girls, but i can never make it serious because ill always be thinking about my girl.

Also, this past weekend on halloween, we had lunch and she told me she may not be coming with me that night (which she had planned on) b/c her BF wanted to meet up with her and she felt bad, but really wanted to come with me and my friends. i showed her i was upset with her, and didn't call or text that whole day. she ended up calling me and coming out with me, had a great time, and the only reason she didn't stay over was b/c of her friend who was a total c*ck block! But we did kiss and we spoke about going away together, she really wants to, but i don;t know how to handle that. What do you guys think?

I don't get the pun. English is my second language. I sometimes do have a tendency to be hillarious without meaning to, though. I think it's part of my personality

I agree that we agree,

Let me clarify a bit here What I'm talking about is more a question of attitude than what you actually do practically. Two quotes to illustrate my point:

"If you want her, be prepared to lose her."
and
"Familiarity breeds contempt."

(both found in Mystery Method, unless I'm mistaken. But I'm pretty sure the actual sayings are older)

Anyways... What I'm getting at is this: Girls like her (I've had one or two in my own life) needs a LOT of comfort and stability. YOU my friend, have to be a ROCK to be able to give her that. When she push/pulls like crazy ("I wanna marry you - Ooops, I have a boyfriend") it's just a way to test you for stability. If she is anything like my old girlfriend she will value personal stability in her mate above anything, even his/her ability to make her happy (That's why girls like her often end up with egocentrical jerks who doesn't really give a crap about them and runs their life for them, like in makeoutbandit's story.)

As things are now, she definitely has the upper hand in your interactions. You are getting "rocked" back and forth by her behaviour, which creates attraction in you, and satisfaction/a sense of familiarity in her. You do your own push/pull PUA thing, which creates attraction in her, but not enough a sense of comfort/stability to pull her into a committed relationship. She is slowly getting better at manipulating you (because every time you react you involountarily tell her more about what makes you tick) which will eventually give birth to comtempt (I've seen it happening in close-up ).

You have to show more independence and less reaction to her push/pulling. When she says "Let's get married" you say "whooa, slow it down tiger.. as things are now I'm not even sure I want you to be my girlfriend". When she says "I have a boyfriend" you say "okey, you're not too serious about us either, good to know". Basically DON'T LET HER GET TO YOU! Frame control has to be solid at all times! And whatever you do, don't be too available to her... have stuff to do, people to see. "Not this weekend, sorry.. I'm going out partying with some girls I know from work". If you succeed to build jealousy in the right way (without ever saying you're sorry you hurt her feelings by doing so) she will chase you like crazy, believe me.

Hmm.. I actually still keep in touch with this ex gf (though in a way that is in NO NO NO WAY sexual and/or romantic) just because she's such a challenge to handle. You know what? I'm gonna ask her what she thinks of this situation (you can be "one of my friends" in the story ). Maybe she will come up with something insightful, she's pretty smart. I know girls often don't know what they want, but at least this way you will know what a girl who does similar things THINK about the situation... Let me get back yo you!

That actually makes a lot of sense to me! Haha, thanks man. Yea i guess i should stop reacting when she rocks me back and forth. So basically, your saying that if I'm stable with her but not always around it should build attraction on her end and eventually things should go in my favor? But at the same time do I still let her know that there is attraction on my end?
I'm interested to hear what this ex girlfriend of yours has to say, let me know. Thanks again.

bumppp. iom pretty eager to see what she has to say too lol