The only problem I have with NLP as far as gaming goes is that it seems to stem from the idea of scarcity. Why do you need to trick or manipulate women into sleeping with you if you have plenty of options open to you?

I can definently see the use in knowing NLP in order to get people to open up or to help others or yourself however.

I have been listening to some of hypnoticas stuff lateley. I would reccomend it but i have trouble getting into a trance any know what would help me do that?

<sigh>

I am amazed at the nearly complete lack of education about hypnosis and NLP on this forum and the utter suspicion and scorn heaped on NLP when used as a seduction tool.

Let me get this out of my system first: NLP IS NOT TRICKING PEOPLE. And it's not creepy.

::cleansing breath::

Okay. Leaving naturals out of the equation (because they are naturals and they don't need this stuff), all of seduction, no matter what method you use, is a way to influence women into choosing you over other guys for their bed partners.

Note the key word, influence. All the systems (Mystery Method, Juggler, RSD, whatever) are designed to influence her decisions about you. They're designed to influence her into thinking you are the prize, that you have more social proof than the other guys, etc. etc. etc.

Does this mean you really ARE the prize? Are you really, truly the best guy in the room for that particular woman? Well, if your inner game is tight, you should believe you are, but in a truly objective sense, you may NOT be the best guy for her in the room. But you want to bed her, so you want to INFLUENCE her to THINK you are the best choice, whether you are or not. So if tricking someone is misleading them, then ALL seducers are "tricking" women to some degree. And who is to say that tricking someone cannot be a pleasurable, positive experience? Magicians can make a decent living off deception. Okay, enough semantics.

NLP is just a different method of influencing her because it deals more with the subconscious than the conscious mind. Actually, several of the non-NLP methods above have parts that appeal to her subconscious programming as well, and I don't hear you guys calling them "creepy."

Ross Jeffries has been a blessing and a curse to NLP-based seduction. A blessing because he did an incredible job of mining all the NLP concepts and practices and creating a streamlined, workable system for using NLP for seduction purposes. A curse because he shot himself in the foot with his sometimes sleazy demeanor and because he uses problematic terminology like "weasel phrases." (I mean, hey, Ross, why not go all the way and call them "underhanded asshole phrases?").

It all boils down to this. When you use NLP for seduction you are appealing directly to her subconscious mind--moreso than with any other system--in fact, NLP is unique in that it focuses almost completely on her subconscious, to create emotional states of attraction and sexual arousal.

And typically, most people (that's you guys) know little or nothing about how the subconscious works, and when you see something you don't understand, you instantly become suspicious of it and start making judgments without even knowing what the fuck you are making judgments about.

Women are a challenge, as I am sure you know. Seduction methods are designed to cope with the challenge and bypass her socially conditioned objections to choosing you as a sex partner. Most systems primarily use tools that work on the conscious, logical part of her brain (although, like I said, there are elements that also work on the subconscious as well). NLP is simply a tool for getting through to her subconscious instead. One guy uses an opinion opener and a routine stack and the other guy uses time distortion and patterns. SAME GOAL, different techniques. That's all it is.

As for the guy that mentioned that NLP-based seduction comes from a scarcity mentality--your very statement is scarcity-based. You think there should only be one or two "correct" method for achieving the goals of seduction. Why piss all over a different method that is an effective means to do it?

NLP is not "tricking women." It's giving them what they want--it taps into their emotions, needs and innermost desires. It just uses a different method to bypass her social conditioning. Like other successful seduction artists, NLP-based seducers see that there is no shortage of attractive women to bed. Bishop even called it 'pink abundance.' I could argue that NLP-based seduction is MORE deeply satisfying to a woman than non-NLP methods, but I will save that one for another day.

With the overall misunderstandings, suspicion and scorn heaped upon the seduction community (this female friend of mine just read The Game and said it was bullshit and that no women would fall for that stuff), I'm surprised you guys are so quick to condemn NLP-based seduction.

Especially without knowing anything about it...

The best thing you can do to improve trance is to be relaxed (don't be hopped up on caffiene, sugar, etc). Do some deep breathing beforehand. You know that slightly drowsy feeling after you eat--that is a great time to go into the trance state.

When going into trance, let your mind wander--it's kind of like daydreaming--don't try to consciously focus on anything except relaxing your body. If there is music on the program you are listening to, focus on the music and not the words. Your subconscious will take care of the rest.

Above all, relaxation is the key. Good luck.

Which do most of you believe is effective, NLP or Mystery Method. To me it seems more of the routines and techniques of Mystery Method are more realistic and work better in the field than NLP patterns. But Maybe after passing the rapport and comfort stages some NLP patterns would work great.

Let me know what your guys thoughts are?

--CMate

First of all BIG props to steerpike, NLP is always perceived as a magical spell that makes woman zombie sex slaves, if this were the case would your local library have a section dedicated to it? No. NLP, as I've said hundreds of times over, is used heavily in practical terms by people in their workplace, to help get along better with superiors, colleagues and employees. This is just adapted to the seduction community.

Second, don't compare MM and NLP. The best method? A comprehensive understanding of both. If you're a beginner to both, MM wins hands down, if you have MM down tight, NLP is a good way to drastically improve your game. Both, if done well, can compliment each other quite well.

_________________
The future is nothing but a series of probability, made up of decision that we make up right now. These decisions lead to certain events into the future. Hence, every human being has the capability to determine their own future. So do it!

Thanks, Mildawg--it just gets frustrating having to constantly read all the BS propagated about NLP/SS by people who know little or nothing about it or how it works.

Mystery Method vs. NLP? Well, why limit yourself? Why not learn both?

MM is an awesome method, and actually lends itself to integrating NLP and patterning during the comfort and seduction stages.

The big difference, in my opinion, is learning curve. MM is much easier to learn to do well than NLP/SS is. Half the posts here in this forum are by guys who think they are doing successful NLP by reciting a canned pattern they got off an online forum. Then they are frustrated that it doesn't "work." That's a lot like not knowing how to drive and then getting into a car and being pissed that you can't make it "work."

But SS practitioners who put in the time and practice can just as good results as any of the other methods.

So if MM is easier to learn, why not use it exclusively? Well, many do.

However, MM is slanted more toward club/nighttime game, and if you're more of a daygame guy, as I am, SS appeals more, especially for this reason: girls out at a club are in social, fun mode. During the day, they are not and SS is much more suited to creating those same states in that case. I'm not going to address some of the other systems, but I think they all have their merits--you have to experiment and find out what works best for you.

The intelligent, open-minded seducer is going to learn as many tools as he can so he can pick and choose and combine for maximum results. I used techniques from both MM, DavidD and other sources, but most of my game revolves around SS.

May I ask you why we should consider this as bad, because it's tricky, women are tricking us into bed by her looks if they want, and that's not bad?

We should consider that something is bad when it offends our human rights.

Your right.
But how can you force a girl to have sex with you, by doing her think she will feel bad not doing it??? That's not logic! Even with NLP it's not realistic

NLP is based on hypnotic techniques and the BIGGEST, most pervasive myth about hypnosis is that it can make you do something you don't want to do. And that is a crock.

NLP causes a woman to experience states of comfort, connection, excitement, sexual arousal and attraction. What normal person doesn't genuinely WANT to experience these things?

The so-called forbidden patterns may try to coerce a woman into bedding down with you with negative reinforcement, but I personally think making her feel all the positive states above is easier, principally because I know that in hypnosis, the subconscious responds better to positive feelings than negative ones. Hypnosis is all about getting past resistance from the critical section of the mind, so creating pleasurable states (less resistance) vs. threatening ones (more resistance) seems to be a no-brainer to me.