I'm very comfortable with my game overall. I can pretty much go into any situation and # close. . . and in a club or lounge whatever, k close if the situation is right. But, here's my perception that's messing me up.

In another thread, Rye wrote:
Girls are definitely attracted to guys that are confident, adventurous, independent, etc . . . but in efforts to go this way, I often just "let them go all together". Then as Rye wrote above, they lose interest.

Here's are some examples:

ONE:

K: Hey, we're heading to ______. It'll be a blast.
HB: Well, I'm sort of undecided on what to do . . .

(So I know she WANTS to go but she's wanting me to drag her ass out. You know . . . so she can tell her friends, "Oh . . .I don't want to really go but K's really into me and like begging me to go so . . ."

So I never ask twice. )

K: No probs. I'll see you next weekend.
HB: Eh . . . OK . . .

TWO:

K: Wanna go for a motorcycle ride?
HB: I dunno . . .I'm kinda scared . .

K: Hey I thought you told me you were a 9 on the adventure scale?
HB: Motorcycles are like another scale altogether.
K: OK scarety cat, I'll call you later.
HB: OK

But in my mind, there are plenty hb's I'm working on who ARE going and even if they don't show, I have a blast opening sets. That's my frame. But because I've been somewhat "distant", I'm cycling through sets and losing as many as I'm gaining.

The funny thing is, there was a time when I wasn't much of an opener . . . but I'd call girls up, ask them out on "dates" and this would get me to a certain point, but my clinginess and "aggressive"(if I could call it that) pursuit would often drive them away.

I'm having a tough time with this balance act. Also . . . while writing this, I'm realizing that with a few, I know for SURE that they want me for a boyfriend (through their friends and whatever) So they continue to test me to make me work for them. Now, I don't mind this shit. I could step it up a bit, pay more attention, so that their girlfriends can go, "Awwww, you're so lucky! Oh . . he's in total love with you! . . . " All that crap . . . but after this, it's either the LOCK DOWN or the FLAKE OFF because you just rewarded them with princess tiara. . . or is it?

I am not sure if attention is the actual problem but more being able to connect or at least show emotions. Because you stated you been "distant" from the girl there is no emotional connection going on to grab the girl.

Kasabi, I'm sort of nervous critiquing a "master critiquer", but I think I may have seen something in the two example scenarios you gave. In both cases, you pretty much closed the door and rescinded the invitation altogether, so even if she wants to change her mind, she can't. I'm thinking that it might be better to conclude with something that still conveys it's no sweat to you if she comes or not, but still gives her the ability to come along. The fact that you couldn't care less might be all she needs to to convince herself not to be such a pussy and follow along, but to do that, you need to leave her that small opening to be able to follow.

In the cases you gave above, maybe something along the lines of "No problem, we're going to have a blast and you're welcome to come, otherwise I can tell you about it next weekend." Or with the motorbike thing, "Fine if you're scared, but know that every time you chicken out, you're less and less likely to ever get up the courage to do it. Let me know if you want to give it a try, otherwise I'll catch you later." I don't know if it seems like it's giving her too much power, but I don't think it does - you're still making it clear that her decision doesn't really have any impact on you, you're doing her the favor by letting her join in on something really cool.

Also, I can sympathize with the balancing act: I've also got the instinct towards being clingy/aggressive, and I think we've just got to make sure not to over-compensate by completely pushing away.

Ah, that's something slightly different Kasabi. I was talking about the fact that if you don't want to continue a relationship with a girl because she is not interesting to you or even obsessed over you, the easiest and often kindest way is to just not pay them the attention they crave. This causes them to look elsewhere for that attention.

As far as your situation goes, you are having a problem with "leverage". You need to make it so that you aren't "dragging them" as you put it, but rather you give them reasons that cause them to jump at the opportunity to do something with you. The reason why this is called leverage, is because if you suggest the event in the correct way, they end up being highly interested and practically do all the work of trying to get together with you for themselves; just as a lever does most of the work for you rather than having to lift something heavy all by yourself.

You just need to learn how to determine what will cause the girls you are interseted in (this is a case by case basis typically, not a general thing, although there are general trends amongst women) to really want to be around you. The most powerful thing is being truly utterly and completely happy and confident with yourself. That's what I suggest every human being works toward in order to be attractive to other human beings (not just pickup guys, but people wanting to be around other people). As far as finer details, that's gonna be dependant upon the context of what you are wanting them to do with you.

_________________
"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

Maybe I'm just not satisfied with the odds. You know . . . we always want the ones we can't get. Women know this . . . so they play the game as well.

Yesterday, I got a text at 11pm for a dinner "date". Like I mentioned in the initial post of this thread, there are plenty who go along with this confident, happy frame rather quickly. Others play the "Oh . . . I dunno know. Maybe. . . Still undecided . . ." Now I know if I go, "Quit your whining, I'm picking you up at 7." I think I've just gotten in the habit of letting them go a bit too much.