The Claw is just putting your arm around her neck. RSD, Real Social Dynamics, is one of the biggest and most successful pickup companies active today, headed by Tyler Durden. He was one of the main characters in The Game by Neil Strauss, and yes, RSD was mentioned in the book as well. I highly suggest you read The Game. It's a great novel that everyone in the community should check out. I can't believe you didn't know RSD...

Chief, what book/information most changed your ability and perception of the game and why?

Also, what in your opinion is the best point in a sarge to make a transition from an opening C&F frame to a comfort/sexual frame? When you make the transition how do you find it best to work it?

/madals

Before 2003, I was a complete wbAFC chode. I hated myself, the world, and was severely depressed from pigeonholing myself into a victim mentality. The first book I've ever read from this community would change my life forever. This book happened to be Double Your Dating by David Deangelo. Now, of course, I look back and see that text as pretty basic, but coming from where I was, that book turned my life around 180 degrees. It changed my perception of the game by making me realize what some of the right rules actually were. I saw my first glimpse of the matrix.

Years later, I find this forum and stumble across this thread: the-best-pua-book-ever-i-hope-so-vt10925.html

The Zen of Meeting Women by Max Weiss. This book raped my brain. It combined Zen Buddhism and concepts from this community to create a form of pickup that was congruent to the path of enlightenment. I was already looking into eastern philosophy like Taoism and seeing some connections between it and pickup before I heard about The Zen of Meeting Women, and this book hit the nail on the head.

Reading this book allowed me to go down a better path in terms of pickup. My mental focus became more mature (I don't know how else to put it), I developed way healthier mindsets about men and women, and it made me feel just more alive as a PUA. I can say without a doubt that I have grown so much after reading that book. Max Weiss just came out with the second edition, by the way.

In my opinion, though, I would say the BEST book overall in the pickup market would be The Attraction Code by Vin DiCarlo. I was already prepared with an awesome outlook on pickup from that Zen book, so it didn't dramatically change my perception on game so much, but I found it to be the best book to learn some solid shit from to develop natural game. One reason it's great to learn from is that the author teaches the material through different methods in the same text so that the information is reinforced and solidified in your head. I actually made a thread about this book here: the-best-imo-vt24968.html
I don't think my personal style is to have an "opening C&F frame" and then transition to something different later on. I have an overall light C&F attitude throughout my entire interaction with a girl... in fact I think it's just part of my genuine personality now. I even piss off some PUA guys I hang out with because they think I'm trying to steal their frame when I'm just unintentionally being C&F. C&F isn't something I think about at all. I just internalize the attitude.

For me, sexual frame should be consistent as well, but in more of a "start light and escalate up" fashion. You can achieve this with Gunwitch's simple tactics on getting into sexual state, talking about sexual topics peppered here and there, kino escalation, etc.

If you're going to put all this shit in terms of frames, the same crap goes for comfort. If you maintain the idea of "warm dominance" (as Vin DiCarlo promotes) in your frame of reality, you're going to make her feel like your presence is a warm protective blanket.

I know that stuff doesn't exactly/directly answer your question, but I can't imagine being congruent in-field when you're TRANSITIONING from frame to frame. Your frame(s) need(s) to be STRONG as hell. How are you supposed to just toss one strong frame to move onto another? Staying consistent with your frame establishes your identity as an attractive man.

Imagine a guy sarging a girl and he's being C&F. She's all giggling and stuff, playfully punching his arm, and qualifying to him. Now let's say he finds a good "transition point" after isolating the girl to a dark corner or some other sleezy shit. Yay sleezy shit. He drops the C&F attitude and slows down and uses a deeper, more seductive voice. He goes into Sexual State and does Gunwitch's SECT stuff. He's also switching the conversation to something more comfort- and rapport-related. He's not C&F anymore, and he's doing something now that he hasn't been doing at all before.

Dude, in the eyes of some random guy that may seem like the sarge is going great, but it's definitely not. Alarm bells are going off in that girl's head right now. Her subconscious is screaming at her, "WATCH OUT!!! THIS GUY TOTALLY SWITCHED HIS IDENTITY OUT FOR ANOTHER!!! HE IS NOT CONGRUENT AND THAT MEANS HE'S PROBABLY TRYING TO MANIPULATE YOU!!! THIS COULD BE A THREAT TO YOUR SAFETY!!!"

Hey, that guy in the scenario might get as far as kiss-closing, but not any further. Her subconscious feels too unsafe with his incongruous frame at this point.

OK, let's start over. Imagine a guy sarging a girl while embodying a C&F attitude, the fire of sexual intent in his eyes, and projecting a welcoming, warm dominance over reality as we know it. Now imagine this guy consistently keeping this strong frame relentlessly, staying strong shit-test after shit-test as he kino escalates smoothly. He keeps this frame of his strong-ass identity from point A to point Bedroom. That guy wins the game.

Whoo! That question really got me thinking and reflecting. Thanks!

Wow, bloody good answer :O
I probably came across wrong with frame to frame. I seem to have got caught in using terms that i think people will understand (gotta stop this trying to make things clearer just makes them more blurry).
In your suggestion that your frame should be constant between attraction and closing, but rather just amplifying the intensist, i totally agree and to an extent is what i meant. C&F isnt something i have to think about, but i can notice that sort of attitude when i reflect on the events. I'll re phrase my second question: At what points do you choose to increase the intensity of your sexual/comforte stage rather than purly trying to build attraction (I am using the mystery model since its unerverially understood).
I have been looking at Jugglers methods of conversations and all that is currently confusing me is how to move from a friendly, attractive and C&F attitude to a friendly, attractive, C&F and seductive attitude. Ofc, if you bring the seductive element to soon, you will come off as a creep, but to late and u will be rejected because its out of your personality. Now dont get me wrong, i am not talking anything as drastic as your example. That is by far not what i meant when i said transistion. I am refering to adding in more intesity to your feelings for eachother and just as you you need to escelate kino i believe you need to escelate your sexual interest. Correct me if you think otherwise.

/madals

Haha! Yeah I know what real social dynamics is, been getting some of their newsletters. I've just never seen the abbreviation, haha! But nah I haven't bothered with "the game". Though I did get "the rules of the game." As I felt that was more practical than a novel.


Also new question..

1. What is the best way to get around an age differrence when the target isn't willing to confronthe issue while still having a problem about it. My guess would be too continue running game, pump her buying temperature until she realises you don't care so neither should she.

That sound about right too you?

Chief, what is your opinion on using PUA techniques on your social environment? For example, I just started working in a new company and am trying to make some friends. There's just this one guy who's really popular around the working flour, but I just can't get him to really like me. I tried to be laid back but then he doesn't bother speaking to me, I try to be energic but then he looks at me like I'm an idiot. What do you think would happen if I used an opener, false time constraint, negged him and those kind of things?

Oh, and just to get it out of the question: I'm not gay

_________________
"Give a man fire and he's warm for a day. But set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life" - Terry Pratchett

Right-O. This also has to do with sexual tension. Switching frames will break any tension created by the previous frame whereas amplifying the intensity will amplify the tension (provided that your frame is serving you well).
Compliance.
When you've got any form of compliance, whether it be verbal compliance or kino compliance, that means she's expressing her natural submissive feminine nature to you. Then you reward that with more value from your masculine polarity, meaning you escalate or "increase the intensity."

For example, I love highly kinesthetic girls. They dance very well and I dance floor game the hell out of them because they are so kino-compliant. They almost always pass my kino compliance tests (whether subtle or blatant), and I reward that by letting her give me a kiss on the cheek, twirling her around, hugging, biting her neck, making out, and sometimes I follow it up with pushing her away (2 steps forward, one step back).

Still, though, you can and should "bring the seductive element" from the beginning lightly with your sexual state. It's like in the example I gave when the guy had the fire of sexual intent in his eyes. Gunwitch's SECT thing is gold.

Yeah that sounds good. Field test your guess and get back to me on that. If you think something could sound right, go out and field test it. Experience is the best teacher.

Your question can go in either of two directions, and my response would be completely different for them lol.

If you mean YOUNGER girls... How young are you talking here??? Keep it legal, man!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm going to assume you mean older women because my frame of reality is telling me that cougars are awesome and that a bunch of PUAs go cougar hunting. I love cougars.

If she isn't confronting the issue, but you feel like she's having some sort of issue about it, that sounds like the perfect foundation to build sexual tension on. Make her want you like mad while she has that internal conflict of "Oh, but he's too young! My mind is telling me no but my body's telling me yes..." Tease her by amplifying this internal conflict. Play around with the tension like a cat playing around with a trapped mouse.

I bet he'll AMOG the shit out of you if you did that.

You can't win them all, man. He feels like you're trying to take value from him, so he's going to be turned off. Let go of your desire to befriend him and just treat him like any other guy and give value to him like you would give value to anyone else. You won't care, but in turn that's actually going to make him see you as cool.

Great responses, got me thinking there. I have a question but it was posted in the Newbie questions, I'll try to find a way to fine tune my game after being out for some time. Anyways just wanted to say great thread here. a lot of information to go through.

how many unique visitors does this site have?
how many page views?
how many members?

(am doing some market research on the active pua community...)

I got a LOT of data for you that will answer your questions and then some. Check this out:
http://www.quantcast.com/pick-up-artist-forum.com

You can look up any statistics for any website with quantcast. I bet you'll find it really useful.

The current number of registered users can be seen at the bottom of the main page.

Chief,

What would you say if you'd been seriously making out with a girl in a club (hands all over, very high buying temperature) and you invited her back to the Chief's tent and she came out with this LMR line:

"I'd love to...but I don't want to be the kind of girl who would do a one night stand" (note the less than affirmative choice of words)

What I did was number close her with a view to Day 2 next week, but I reckon from the choice of words and high BT that there was scope to same day f close here.

Your advice would be very much appreciated and put to good use in the field. I have heard this line or variations thereof twice now in 3 weeks and it is starting to be a sticking point for me.

Thanks,

DPUA

So apparently girls always say something like that when they see that you are RICH... if your pad looks TOO NICE and you demonstrated WEALTH. When girls see wealth, they turn into gold diggers who try to play you into the provider role by withholding sex until they can ensnare you into a relationship trap.

If this is you, go for car extractions or somehow make your place look less rich.

However, even if you aren't rich, I still see a problem with your mid-game. If you are making out with her with hands all over in the venue, that's not the same thing as pumping BT. That's closure. It's closing. Kiss-closing. You're making the kiss-close in the venue part of the seduction process. A kiss-close in the club should be used tactfully to increase sexual TENSION and comfort, not so much for AROUSAL. By the time you pull them to the actual seduction location, they won't feel enough tension to do the dirty anymore.

By Mystery's M3 model, you're starting the S phase in the C location. By the DiCarlo Escalation Ladder model, that means you started the escalation ramp in a logistically bad place. When you begin the ramp but do not finish (sex) in the same time frame, that could very well send a signal to her evolutionarily developed subconscious that there is something wrong with you when it comes to sex, ruining your entire game with her (assuming she's not trying to gold dig you).

And as much as I don't really like freezing people out, that's probably what I'd do if I ever ran into THAT for LMR.

cool.

Just about the most comprehensive answer I could have asked for.

I think you're right, I should've number closed and f'd her on day 2. I often try and bolt the f close on the end of the k close, which is like 2 closes in quick succession. Hardly push-pull, more like push-push.

I'm not particularly wealthy myself but I was hanging out with 2 millionaire mates at the time in the 2nd most exclusive club in town, so she may have mistakenly put a "rich" label on me.