Imagine an incredibly close minded person who already (before encountering this site) thought ALL men are lying, cheating backstabbing manipulators who are just out to get into girls' pants and has no intention of seeing things any other way. Then she finds this site and sees threads like "How do I f-close this girl?"

I am sitting down with her tonight and trying to get her to see it from my perspective but it's a HUGE uphill battle.

K, now add on that she'd been raped and in abusive situations. Guess what, got that girl interested in working with me running workshops in order to learn from it and learn to improve herself. It's really not a hard sell.

I gave a copy of The Game to both sets of parents, my aunt and my sister for xmas this year. I got told I was sick and fucked up, then I pointed out that those guys in the book were extremists and told them exactly what I'm really doing, which is just helping guys to improve themselves; nothing to do with manipulating women, or anything like that. I give the "car analogy"; a drunk driver can get behind the wheel of a car and kill a kid, but does that make it evil? You can drive that car to the store to pick up groceries to feed your kids as well, so the car isn't evil, it's how it is used, it is the intent. Instantly they realise they're viewing it wrong and change their perspective and how they treat it.

This isn't a new problem man, you aren't dealing with anything that hundreds of other guys haven't encountered, so don't worry, you can overcome it.

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

Yes, Rye Lee, you are absolutley correct regarding INTENT.

My issue is with the guys who are not HONEST regarding their intent, no matter what the issue, ie:what they're trying to "get" from a woman or "why" they're on a site like this.

Trust me when I say, I fully believe in being the best person one can be, but you must see how disturbing a site like this can be when you see guys trying to be the best "douche" they can be.

Yes, we read Cosmo and magazines that give advice, but it's usually to get ideas on how to please the men we are with, not how to bed as many of them as we can find. And we spend time trying to find ways to improve our relationships.

If you're a douche...at least be honest, and for the most part I have a difficult time believing that most of the guys who say they're completely honest about the games they're running are actually being completely honest.

If you're promoting yourself as a "decent" guy then don't behave deceptively and need to "explain" your behavior.

Excuse me if this comes across harsh, I'm not on here asking these questions and making these statements to open myself up to a barrage of insults and attacks.

I would absolutely like nothing more to believe that there really are decent guys out there that not only CLAIM to be, but can actually live up to who they SAY they are.

Convince me, seriously!

Welcome to the forums BA.

Make sure and introduce yourself as well, you will meet many of the members here very quickly. /there you can direct the thread how you want it to go.

Do not worry about being harsh. (just no member bashing )I dont believe this site needs to be defended nor do I believe anyone here needs to convince you of anything. The proof is on the website. Read the forums and visit the newbie section. See all the questions that are asked daily. Several of the guys here are just now learning the skill set to be able to approach women.

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success is my only mother fucking option, failure is not.

Hobbit,

Being new to this site I apologize for not being able to reply to each specific "quote".

My negative impression comes strictly from the "threads" that I have read, on this site, that state exactly the type of dishonest PUA's that I'm referring to...the one's with the malicious intent.

You know the one's I'm talking about, they claim to be the nice guy and the one we're all looking for when they're running a game the entire time.

I'm not talking about the "nice guy" that I cry to about the latter.

Kudos to the guys on here who are stand up guys, kudos if that applies to you.

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"And this too shall pass"

Thank you Hobbit. I'll get the quotes figured out and get some insight from ZIP. I appreciate your help.[/list][/quote]

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"And this too shall pass"

woops!

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"And this too shall pass"

Why the hell is she "very much embedded in your life?"

Be careful who you associate yourself with. I personally like being close to the open-minded kind... so something's telling me that you and her are "close" not by your free choice, but because you have a scarcity mentality going on.
This one girl I was out on a first date with told me "I don't want to give you everything so soon" as we were escalating to sex. I laughed because of the ridiculous frame she was coming from.

It isn't about "getting" anything from women. It's about sharing a wonderful experience, or, as I tell my girls, painting a beautiful piece of art on a canvas together with an adventure. Fuck the give and/or take mentality.

Annon, I think many of the people you see as being malicious, are actually just misguided. Unfortunately, as Hobbit pointed out, women are the ones that have created many of these men that end up seeing a way to finally succeed and then misunderstand how to do so in a manner that makes them a better person, at least right off the bat. Many of those men end up having revelations, they are told by other members how they are not on the right path, or they have an epiphany and they end up becoming better for it.

This isn't a phenomenon that only occurs in the PUA community, people all across the world end up having this occur to them a times in their lives; but it may occur more often to PUAs, because they usually end up here due to having been hurt by women in the past and wanting a way to overcome that. I'm sure this can make perfect sense to a woman, as tons of women get hurt by asshole guys, just like tons of nice guys get hurt by girls that thought they were "too nice". Guys will break up with a bitch, but girls break up with the nice guys and go out with the jerks, while crying on the nice guy's shoulder.

This is a community of people (not just men, but more and more women every day), bent on self improvement. Nobody's perfect and most of those people have some skeletons, hence why they seek improvement. The goal should be commended, they shouldn't be reprimanded for coming from a bad place.

/end thread hijacking.

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

Oh Chief, you're so good you even hooked me with that one.

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

Rye Lee, I agree that some people may be misguided and use this in a manner not intended, but are you saying that for those who do abuse their new found skills...that we should just say "okay, sugar" under the assumption that perhaps they'll have an epiphany?

I'll be the first to commend any guy who comes here from a bad place and does the right thing.

It's a fairly simple concept that I believe in...The Golden Rule...Do unto others...

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"And this too shall pass"

Obviously not. As I said in my post, the reason there is a community, is for others to give feedback and guide people in the right direction.

Check out Beschatten's thread not too long ago, about whether he should try to hook up with his 2nd cousin. It started out with a few guys saying that it was cool and then many others trying to steer him back onto a more wholesome path. Hooking up with your 2nd cousin isn't even illegal or anything, but we realised why he was doing what he was doing and in the end so did he. Guys that are truly interested in becoming PUAs are open to feedback from other people and usually end up becoming better people for it in the end, but that doesn't mean they don't need guidance along way way; just remember that it is guidance they need and not attacks on their character.

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

Obviously not. As I said in my post, the reason there is a community, is for others to give feedback and guide people in the right direction.

Check out Beschatten's thread not too long ago, about whether he should try to hook up with his 2nd cousin. It started out with a few guys saying that it was cool and then many others trying to steer him back onto a more wholesome path. Hooking up with your 2nd cousin isn't even illegal or anything, but we realised why he was doing what he was doing and in the end so did he. Guys that are truly interested in becoming PUAs are open to feedback from other people and usually end up becoming better people for it in the end, but that doesn't mean they don't need guidance along way way; just remember that it is guidance they need and not attacks on their character.

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

I think we're all looking for guidance and I don't mean to attack anyones character any more than I want mine attacked. I'm just trying to understand and looking for answers myself. Men have as many preconceived notions about women as we have about them. Just looking to be enlightened.

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"And this too shall pass"

Wow, this thread blew up a bit.

Thats what happens when i spend a week off my computer!


And yes Nogame, i broke the first (and second) rule of PU.

but I wasnt wanting a dating LTR with her, so I thought "What the hell, she would make good wing-woman (or is it pivot...?)"

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"That's some bad hat, Harry"...

<<<<<See that profile picture?
i SWEAR thats not me