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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:13 am 
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first let me tell you i know i am a purebred AFC, but i'm trying.

i know this is a long story, so here is the short version: I been trying to bang this girl for a while now, but it turns out i like her a lot and i think we're on the fast track to an LTR. i've slept in the same bed as her, she'll jerk me but she won't fuck me (tried once and she said she wasn't ready). she's probably an HB7.5, bright red hair, bright blue eyes, definitely one of a kind (yes i might have one-itis but her fuckin hair and eyes turn me the fuck on). her friend says she wants to be my GF. It's been almost 5 weeks and 4-6 proper dates...no sex....should i next her?
Quote:

BACKGROUND: i met this girl about 2 months ago during finals week parties. we made out in a bathroom at a houseparty and she jerked me off. i got her number and we've been talking and texting and partying since then pretty frequently. just recently we've been hanging out almost every weekend and we even split a hotel room (i didn't wanna bang her there since one of my friends was stayin in the same room) with some friends for some fun for the fourth of july long weekend. my friend (mutual friend) told me that she (target) thinks that we have something special and i'm definitely BF material but she feels that i have a lack of commitment. anyways, we've slept in the same bed maybe a total of 8-10 nights and the most she's done is jerk me off. i tried to have sex with her but she told me she wasn't ready so she jerked me off. most nights that i do sleep with her (like go unconscious next to her) end up like she is too drunk to mess around and passes out, or i pass out, or she feels sick (from the previous night of drinking). funny story i passed out while she was wiping the mess off of my belly

PROBLEM: hanging out with her one day (1 on 1) we got to talking. since i am not very experienced (my number is 4) i got pretty hurt when she told me she used to have sex all the time at this place she used to work at (with a coworker). now i'm thinking..."wtf, i've been trying so hard to lay her and some dude used to just have sex with her all the time and not even be in a LTR with her" she also told me about all the sex she's had (very briefly). so wtf, why won't she have sex with me? The reason i want a relationship is to have an intellectual and emotional connection with someone and express it in ways that are new to me (sex instead of just talking).

INNER GAME PROBLEM: My very first girlfriend wouldn't have sex with me (in highschool) and then broke up with me and fucked the next guy she had an LTR with. That hurt me a lot and have never been the same with girls since. i'm a senior in college and haven't had a girlfriend since i was a senior in highschool (when that girl broke my heart). I have issues of trust. I don't want them to cheat on me because I tried so hard to get them in a relationship and have sex with me and then some dude comes along and without even trying lays her. all this hard work i've put into her and all i get are hand jobs? bullshit! maybe because i've never had a fuck buddy or a girlfriend who gives me sex all the time. i just masterbate a lot hah. again i know i am a purebred AFC, but i'm trying.

QUESTION: Should I stay in it with her? I want the sex because it would make me feel like i got something out of the relationship (so i can justify to myself why I put so much time and effort into it). I can get intellectual and emotional connection with a lot of girls, but i never get sex out of it. Should i bust out of my AFC shell and just next her?

YOUR SOLUTION: ??? help? i want to have sex with her so bad but i feel that i should maybe just cut my losses and move on...at this point i feel she might be just a losing investment.

the story is so long because i want you to know the whole story. it would hurt to let her go, but isn't that what's supposed to happen?

thanks a lot bud. i know i PMd you this, but i didn't know i could post replies! i apologize.
also i been talkin to her everyday for the past 2 weeks. bad idea?


Last edited by PoopHead on Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:07 am 
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I can't help but comment. Too me it sounds like you actually have something special and even though there's no sex I would just roll with it. When it happens, and from the looks of it; it will (she just isn't ready yet), it'll be that much more special .

There's a phrase Jeffries always said, once you find someone special stick with them. So stick with her dude. It brings me joy to hear things like that.
You have one-itis, she is also just as in-like with you, so why the fuck not keep talking to her? Be a part of her everyday routine. Enjoy it.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:48 am 
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Perhaps a relationship can outlive the participants.
And that is exactly what some people are looking for - someone they can be so compatible with that they would last a lifetime together with them and then some.
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I dont know if you have had any experience with Hypnotica and his teachings, but is hypnotism (in your opinion) worth looking into, or is it just another routine to fascinate women? I recently watched Hypnotica's 3DVD course, and, to me, it was entreating. Still, i would like an outside opinion...
On the second page of this thread, 7th post from the top, someone asked me if learning NLP was "worth it." Read that and come back here.

Alright, welcome back. Hypnosis isn't exactly the same thing as NLP. It's related to it, but it's less applicable to pickup in terms of Outer Game. You would have greater control of your NLP skill and your Inner Game if you mastered the art of hypnosis, but you can essentially achieve the same results just by studying just the content that gurus like Hypnotica has to offer.

As an analogy, Mystery knows magic. He uses his knowledge of magic to pull off tricks to DHV and also to provide himself with a perspective, a model, to see his reality. What I mean by that is, if you look at his Method, the M3 model, it looks as if it would fit the design of a magic show. It's "indirect," just how magic is based on misdirection. Hypnosis can also provide you with a model as such. Whether or not it's "worth it" to look into any outside discipline to assist you in pickup is not something I can answer for each individual.

My other hobbies include guitar playing, musical composition, musical performance, and martial arts. I grew up on these disciplines and they are a part of my personality and a part of who I am. They provide me with real and helpful perspectives when it comes to pickup. I could probably put together a program that uses music and musical training to teach pickup to guys just how Hypnotica uses hypnosis to do the same.

My advice to you would not be to look into hypnosis specifically, but to look into (and commit yourself to) a discipline besides pickup that you have a real passion for.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:14 pm 
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I been trying to bang this girl for a while now, but it turns out i like her a lot and i think we're on the fast track to an LTR.
...
my friend (mutual friend) told me that she (target) thinks that we have something special and i'm definitely BF material but she feels that i have a lack of commitment.
...
i got pretty hurt when she told me she used to have sex all the time at this place she used to work at (with a coworker). now i'm thinking..."wtf, i've been trying so hard to lay her and some dude used to just have sex with her all the time and not even be in a LTR with her"
...
so wtf, why won't she have sex with me? The reason i want a relationship is to have ... (sex instead of just talking).
...
haven't had a girlfriend since i was a senior in highschool (when that girl broke my heart). I have issues of trust. I don't want them to cheat on me because I tried so hard to get them in a relationship and have sex with me and then some dude comes along and without even trying lays her. all this hard work i've put into her and all i get are hand jobs? bullshit! maybe because i've never had a fuck buddy or a girlfriend who gives me sex all the time. i just masterbate a lot hah. again i know i am a purebred AFC, but i'm trying.
...
I want the sex because it would make me feel like i got something out of the relationship (so i can justify to myself why I put so much time and effort into it). I can get intellectual and emotional connection with a lot of girls, but i never get sex out of it.
...
i want to have sex with her so bad
...
I disagree with Beschatten.

PoopHead, let's drop the subject of this girl for a moment. Let's talk about YOU. I'm about to tell you something that's going to blow your mind and rock your fucking world.

Ready? Make sure you're sitting down for this. Alright, I hope you're ready.

You don't need to be in a relationship with a girl to have sex with her. In fact, most guys that girls have sex with are not and were never "boyfriends" of theirs. I think it's pretty important for you to know this because I can actually elicit your values (yes, like Style's EV routine) from your lengthy post.

Let's be honest. You have (or had) a limiting belief that says "I have to be in a relationship with a girl in order to have sex with her." Let's be even more honest. You REALLY want to get laid. You don't even care about relationships. You feel like you've "emotionally connected" with girls enough, and you're sick of settling for just that. You want sex, and that desire is stronger than your desire for any "bf/gf" status.

Oh, and let me tell you something that your penis is screaming at you (but you might not be listening).

You want sex with a girl you find attractive. You don't NEED to have sex with THIS PARTICULAR GIRL. You just want sex, whether it be from the redhead who jacks you off or from Heidi Klum. By the way, I'd totally do Heidi. She's currently making my desktop look very lovely.

Fortunately for you, you've come to the right place. In the PUA community, we'll teach you everything you need to know to get what you REALLY want for your love life. Some people actually want a serious relationship, and yeah, we help those guys get good girlfriends, but that's not the boat you're in, buddy. Other guys, like you and me, actually don't give two shits about serious relationships at the moment....

Go ahead and keep gaming this redhead, but do so with this fresh new perspective I've shoved down your throat. It'll give you better results. Also, don't stop there. Game other girls, too. Have sex with them while you are SINGLE and loving it. Defeat oneitis.

Oh, and after you've tried this out... there's still a chance that you'd develop a desire to have a relationship with this redhead girl after you've fucked her... but only if you haven't been getting sex from other girls.

Fucking GFTOW.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:47 pm 
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i really appreciate your advice. but being a newbie (obviously since i have oneitis) i'd like a bit more direction...

so in this situation, you say a PUA should still game this girl, but how should a PUA respond (general behavior) to this girl's phone calls, texts, etc? (while attempting to GFTOW but having almost slipped into an LTR with her?) most of the info around here is for day 1's and day 2's


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:23 pm 
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how should a PUA respond (general behavior) to this girl's phone calls, texts, etc?
From the position of someone who has the upper hand and an abundance mentality, but is still warm and playful. Well, that's MY style at least.

For additional guidance, check out the rest of the forum and ask questions in many places. Please keep in mind that this thread is mainly for "advanced" questions. Basic strategy for pickup, such as phone game and text game, can be learned elsewhere.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:56 pm 
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Thanks for the advise, chief!
I have committed to many different discipline's such as guitar, piano, weight training, etc.

I now have two questions (its like an amoeba!). You can answer both, one, or even none.

1. In your opinion, what disciplines (hobbies) do women respond the best to (take the most intrest in)? Edit: i know from your last post what your hobbies are, but, in general ( hell, even skydiving), what do they like to hear about?

2. Seeing as you have just come out of high school (i assume this because in an older post, you said you were 18), [how] is gaming hs girls any different than gaming any other woman?

(if i have put this in the wrong section, please re-direct me)

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:11 am 
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1. In your opinion, what disciplines (hobbies) do women respond the best to (take the most intrest in)? Edit: i know from your last post what your hobbies are, but, in general ( hell, even skydiving), what do they like to hear about?
There is, of course, the element of "different types of girls like different things." While this is true, I believe there is another side to it.

There are some hobbies that demonstrate value (you can follow Mystery's 5 attraction switches as a guideline) and there are some hobbies that don't. Skydiving, for example, demonstrates willingness to take risks. Computer programming doesn't demonstrate shit. If you do computer programming, that's great, but you don't have to talk about it with girls.

I'm sure that if you look into the hobbies that you already do, you'll find plenty of DHVs you can work with. Talking about these valuable hobbies with passion will cause women to respond very well.
Quote:
2. Seeing as you have just come out of high school (i assume this because in an older post, you said you were 18), [how] is gaming hs girls any different than gaming any other woman?
Well, actually, I've already been through one year of college and I've already settled into college life and its fast-paced party scene quite comfortably lol. On top of that, I've been going to bars and clubs in New Orleans (except the places that card hard). So, I'm not as in-tune with my knowledge of high school game as you may think...

I can tell you this, however. Since the social scene in American high schools is essentially revolved around cliques, you're going to have to play social circle game to an extent. I think it's important to develop some kind of reputation, preferably a positive one.

The brain of a high school girl hasn't fully matured yet, so I think they actually respond differently to some attraction cues. They are more susceptible to media influence; they have absolutely no idea what they want. They haven't been exposed as much to smooth men. They respond better to LOOKS because that's what society tells them to base their attraction on. Then they get confused.

I'm just saying that there are so many other variables that are flying around when it comes to high school game that it's harder to have predictive power, so it'd be useless to try to perfect your game in HS and to have control over everything. Perhaps it'd be best to just chill, and just go with the flow.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:33 am 
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You mentioned recognising correlations between pickup and musical performance. I'd love to hear a little more about that if you have time.

I'm a semi-professional musician, and have given this some thought before. For example the learning of theory, internalised by repetition (practicing scales, modes), then going "on automatic" when on stage and not consciously thinking too much about the theory behind what you're doing.

Personally I play a lot of Jazz, where one of the core beliefs (for playing bop and related styles) if you want to play it well is that you must internalise the theory through study and practice, then go onstage and just play what you feel. Again this has some similiarity with how I think of pickup.

Excellent thread, many thanks for this.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 7:56 am 
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You mentioned recognising correlations between pickup and musical performance. I'd love to hear a little more about that if you have time.

I'm a semi-professional musician, and have given this some thought before. For example the learning of theory, internalised by repetition (practicing scales, modes), then going "on automatic" when on stage and not consciously thinking too much about the theory behind what you're doing.

Personally I play a lot of Jazz, where one of the core beliefs (for playing bop and related styles) if you want to play it well is that you must internalise the theory through study and practice, then go onstage and just play what you feel. Again this has some similiarity with how I think of pickup.

Excellent thread, many thanks for this.
Jazz? I'm jealous! I'm not advanced enough for it, but I have played in bands before. Now, before we continue, let's shift our perspective to the rock/metal world in which I can explain things better...

Before you even think about performing, you sit down and study at home or go to your music teacher's place to learn the ropes. You lean music theory, the hows and the whys for what sounds good and what sounds bad. You practice your scales and you learn your favorite songs.

There you are, backstage, about to step onto the stage to grace the venue with your art. The less experienced musical performer will be full of doubt and worry. "How will the audience respond? How do I know that they'll even like what I'll play? Maybe they'll boo me off stage!" he shall think to himself. You, on the other hand, are prepared. You know exactly what you're going to play. Even if you mess up somewhere, you're not worried. You know your shit; you're practically a natural musician. You know your scales so you can make ANYTHING sound good.

You gather your courage and step onto the stage with a glowing sense of confidence, a smile, and your opening song. You KNOW that you're about to rock the audience's world, and you KNOW that you're about to have a shitload of fun.

There you are, rocking out, expressing your authentic self by communicating raw emotion and having the audience feel what you are feeling. You are essentially leading the crowd, offering them a chance to see the world through your eyes, to experience your creative power and to really feel you on a deeper level.

You can see the audience reacting favorably to your expressions. They are cheering when you address them on the mic. While you play your favorite songs, you can see possibilities in the future. Perhaps the audience shall all clap at the end. Perhaps they will chant your name. Maybe you'll even get complete silence... followed by a standing ovation. Whatever the future holds, though, you don't let it screw up the fun you are having RIGHT NOW in the moment as you are fully enjoying the 20 seconds the audience is singing along with your music in the chorus of a heartfelt song.

The singer has stopped singing and the rhythm guitar is playing the same chord progression you've heard countless times before. You warm up into a solo that you've never played before (it's different every time and you know it), but you gracefully find that melody that you've been looking for during the entire show. In that moment when you're heart is crying with joy as you find the perfect combination of notes that tells your story and expresses the depth of what you feel, you feel enlightened and fulfilled. You're a real musician. You've become a real artist.

***Now, how does all that relate to pickup?***

Before you even think about sarging, you sit down and study at home or attend a workshop to learn the ropes. You learn psychological theories, the hows and the whys for what women respond well to and what repels them. You practice your positive affirmations and memorize your favorite canned routines.

There you are, at the club, about to approach your first set to grace the venue with your art. The less experienced rAFC will be full of doubt and worry. "How will the girls respond? How do I know that they'll even like what I have to say? Maybe they'll blow me out and reject me!" he shall think to himself. You, on the other hand, are prepared. You know exactly what you're going to open with. Even if you mess up somewhere, you're not worried. You know your shit; you're practically a natural PUA. Your Inner Game is so tight that anything you say expresses your irresistibly attractive personality.

You gather your courage and break open the tightly-knit set with kino, a smile, and an opener with a warm delivery. You KNOW that you're about to rock the girls' worlds - especially your target's - and you KNOW that you're about to have a shitload of fun.

There you are, spiking BT and demonstrating value, expressing your authentic self by communicating your state of positivity and attraction and having the girl(s) feel what you are feeling. You are essentially leading the girl(s), offering her/them a chance to see the world through your frame, to experience your creative power and to really feel you on a deeper level.

You can see the girl(s) giving IOIs in response to your expressions. Your target is passing your kino compliance tests. While you run your favorite routines, you can see possibilities in the future. Perhaps you'll number-close. Perhaps you'll kiss-close. Maybe you'll even get some LMR... followed by a passionate full-close. Whatever the future holds, though, you don't let it screw up the fun you are having RIGHT NOW in the moment as you are fully enjoying the presence of a pretty girl playfully hitting your arm as she's laughing in response to the neg you just threw at her.

You've isolated and it's just you and her sitting in such a way you are all too familiar with. Let's say you're about to wing it with Natural Game. Fuck canned material at this point; it's time to get really real. You warm up to her by exposing a little vulnerability to build trust and comfort. Then you just start saying whatevers on your mind (even though you know what you say is different every time), but you confidently explore your own mind and her's with her to find that click, where her yin compliments your yang. In that moment of true expression and ecstatic connection, you feel enlightened and fulfilled. You're a real PUA. You've become a real artist.

As Mystery once said, pickup is a performing art.

What many people forget, though, is that pickup is an art.

Rock on and sarge on.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:58 am 
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You've nicely articulated the similiarities i'd noticed but hadn't fully thought through yet :D (only in the Game 6 months or so), thanks for the reply!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:17 am 
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Can I have your phone number? :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:07 am 
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Can I have your phone number? :lol:
First things first, beautiful tiger avatars are common... lol

What are three things about you - that has nothing to do with your avatar - that would want to make me get to know you better?

:lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:59 pm 
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Can I get your phone number too?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:44 pm 
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^ Be careful Chief! He is secretly in love with his cousin. Don't want to see you getting hurt :wink:

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"To Give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift" -Prefontaine

Not a PUA just a girl offering my opinions/advice


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