Kind of like friend zone, except the opposite: I've been a complete jackass and kind of went overboard making fun of this girl I have dance lessons with. She is quite pretty (she has those soft doey eyes and legs that go on forever), and she moves quite well on the dance floor. I was not pursuing her romantically, so basically I shut my game off while leaving the negs on.

Actually, I wasn't so much teasing her as just being a complete jerk, rolling my eyes and making her feel bad about herself whenever I can. I'm not quite sure why I did this, but I know it made her feel bad. Her physical IOI's stopped recently and although I catch her looking sometimes, she won't hold eye contact any more. Last night she declined to dance with me (she usually accepts) and I *think* that's her way of telling me I went too far.

Yes, I'm going to hell. But before I do, lets hear some advice on how to reverse this disturbing trend I've set...get me back into neutral territory with her, that's all.

Oh, and no I'm not going to apologize unless it's a last resort.

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Fuck all that gaming back into a neutral zone. Say sorry and you're back at square one. And you're being humane about things.

The quickest way is obviously to say sorry, but seeing as you seem to stubborn for that, though I am not sure why, it doesn't make you more of a man, tone down the negs, smile at her every now and then, simple stuff, everyone seems to play by the rules of 'The Game', whereas a lot of girls cannot be picked up that way, sometimes you just have to be yourself.

- SC

Pfft everyone I asked is telling me to say "sorry", but I'm not going to be "sorry" for something that has become a part of my personality through the study of PUA.

Gotta find another way. Maybe I'll find her a boyfriend.

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If continually making fun of someone to make them feel bad and then not saying sorry is part of your personality , I'm not so sure that PUAing is really contributing positivitly. Sounds like your more of just a douchebag.

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aspiring High school pickup artist...

Thanks kanye, I'm glad you took time out of your day to call me a douchebag. Although, I think a douchebag is more like someone who doesn't bother to understand the situation before offering his douchebag opinion, kind of like what you're doing.

Alright, for those of you who are hopefully blessed with a little more creativity, I need a way to make this up to her without:

1) Saying "sorry" or apologizing.
2) Buying her lavish gifts, because I don't know her that well and I like my money.
3) Gaming her. That's right, I don't want to send IOI's, or do any kind of obvious pull.

Sounds like I handcuffed the magician here...any Houdinis out there wanna give this a crack?

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The fact is you have insulted her. I understand your pride will not let you say sorry. So say sorry in a different way. If you have gotten to know her personality a bit or know a bit about her, maybe bring her a cup of her favorite coffee to class. A little trinket that you see at the gas station that says you thought about her in a time outside of your dance classes. Just something random that says you want to be on a friends level with her.

Do not go overboard, just be random. She will obviously be confused and think "Why is this jerk brining me coffee?" She will probably think its cause you are trying to get in her pants. So dont try and game her. Just give her a nice compliment with her coffee... like "Your leg kicks seem to have really improved the past few weeks." Or whatever dance moves yall do. I dont know, just something simple and self-LESS. Ya know, an act of kindness where you expect nothing in return. The thing you probably would have done as a nice guy when you were an AFC. Being a PUA is riding the line but sometimes being overly cocky funny is just being a plain asshole.

Sounds like she has a good freeze out going. Pretend she is the PUA. So reverse the rolls. What would you expect if you are freezing out a girl who did something bad to you?

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success is my only mother fucking option, failure is not.

PUA isn't about being a jackass, so don't use that fucking excuse. Being a dickhead isn't part of the method. Nothing wrong with apologizing if it needs to be said, and it is obvious that you need to apologize to this girl. Trust me, bad word of mouth can destroy your game before you can even open your mouth. Do yourself a favor and just apologize for being a jerkoff. It's not cool or alpha.

Yea thats exactly what I'm saying. You should just apologize, your not "lowering value". PUAing doesn't mean becoming a social robot and making everyone around you feel bad about themselves.

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aspiring High school pickup artist...

I dunno maybe I'm wrong about this but maybe she thinks of you as being way out of her league -or on too high a pedestal for he to reach. Maybe you've sort of beaten her into submission through negs or something -I dunno -its hard to guage exactly without being there in person. Anyways, if this is the case you should probably just show her that you aren't all that? and that you are still within her reach?

This is like saying "I locked myself out of my house, but I don't want to break a window, what do I do?"

You are wrong about it. He clearly said he was negging her (basically insulting her) without trying to pick up. He clearly stated he was being a jerk to her. At this stage, you apologize for your behavior. That's part of being a alpha male. Knowing when you are wrong and being able to stand up for your wrong doings. It's part of being a leader. A leader recognizes when he's wrong and he's able to apologize while still holding a strong frame. In fact, his frame gets even stronger when he can admit that he was wrong. Being stubborn and a jerkoff DLVs you, not increases your value.

A lesson you all should learn. It would be different if he did nothing wrong. Yes, at that stage I wouldn't apologize just to apologize. However, if I felt my actions were indeed wrong (by my omission, not somebody else) then I would indeed apologize.