Maybe he is not trying to game her but just wants to get some (i hope usefull) advice from her.

It is funny though. If a female wants to get some attention all she has to do is sign up in a PUA forum and watch the replies flow in.

Getting some advice from her is fine, but that does not mean that he has to act like a wuss as he is doing it.

That's kind of what you would call being counter productive to his game. He can still ask her whatever questions that he wants. He just needs to reframe things a bit and do it as an alpha male instead of a wuss.

If he starts acting like a wuss, then all that he is going to be doing is demonstrating DLV behavior and that is something he should be avoiding at all costs. Asking questions of a woman is fine and there is nothing wrong with that. He can ask her anything that he wants, just as long as he is doing it in an alpha male manner instead of a an AFC manner.

It's all in how you go about things. Basically you have a choice. You can either choose to act like a PUA and an alpha male or you can choose to revert back to AFC status by not paying attention to the game.

At the same time, if a guy wants to come across like an idiot, all he has to do is hijack a female's introductory thread.

Get used to women coming into the forums. Like it or not, it's a byproduct of the commercialization of our community. I hate that female introductory threads always seem to get 1.) way too much attention, 2.) hijacked beyond recognition, 3.) knee-deep in a flame war.

From my experience, 95% of the time, it's the guys causing the aforementioned atrocities while the female gets grossed out or scared by the behavior and runs away from the forum.

This thread is in serious danger of being locked. Gentlemen, I'd suggest you be careful to keep things theoretical, general, welcoming, etc. I'll give everyone the benefit of a doubt and assume no one was even considering posting anything questionable here.

_________________
- Zip

Caaaaalm down David D junkie.

Act with consistency. If you would say something friendly like Z said to welcome a MAN, the same should apply to women.

If you wouldn't buy a MAN a drink, the same should apply to women.

If you would hold the door open for a MAN who's directly behind you, the same should apply to women.

If you would buy a man lunch when you're hanging out with him to shoot the shit, the same should apply to women.

That is my point exactly and that is exactly what Ross, Mystery, David D and everyone else has been saying from the begining.

We are all here to learn and to exchange ideas, thoughts, opinions, resources and anything else that may help us to grow and to become both better people and to become better at the game and just as you said that it is all about consistency and that is what the difference is between an AFC and an Alpha Male.

Alpha Males do not need to go around seeking the approval of women or of other people, whereas AFC's do tend to supplicate to both women and to other people because that is what society and the media have taught them to do, and that is what people like Ross, Mystery, David D. and all the other teachers are trying to beat out of all of us as they know that supplicating to a woman or to anyone else for that matter is not attractive in any way and it is especially unattractive to women.

Everything that we have been learning about the game is geared towards weeding out all of those undesirable characteristics that we have picked up over the years, so that we are not only more attractive to women, but so that we feel good about ourselves and the decisions that we make.

Talking to women or to other people is not a problem, but if you are going to do it then do it on your terms by not supplicating to them in any way and that is what Ross, Mystery, Style and everyone else are saying. It's all about being your own man and not really caring too much as to whether the girl or anyone else likes you.

Simply put by Ross Jeffries and others is to stop supplicating, be a man and live life on your terms. That is the point that they are all trying to make and that is the whole purpose of this forum.

I'm not sure about the other people, but I am here to learn and grow just as people like Ross, Mystery, Lance Mason, David D. and all the others propose and just as they say I am not going to supplicate to any woman or to anyone as that would be a violation of everything that we have been learning from the game and that is not a good idea.

If other people choose to supplicate, then that is there choice but in my opinion that would be an unwise choice as supplication is what AFC's do and this forum was not designed for us to learn how to be AFC's and supplicate to women or other people.

It was designed for us to come and learn how to be become better at the game by weeding out our AFC tendencies and to exchange thoughts, ideas, suggestions, education, and experiences about ourselves and about the game. In short it is all about collabortion and I am using that word losely as it may not be the correct word to use.

Seriously, calm down. You're just being excessively paranoid. That's the best way I can put it.

Z wasn't supplicating. He was being civil.

There's a fucking difference.

I can tell that you've probably been looking into all this pickup stuff for less than a year and that you are currently going through a highly transformational stage in which you are forsaking many habits and characteristics of supplication you previously possessed.

That' good, but don't get carried away. You don't want to throw the baby away with the bathwater or whatever they say.

You are right I am going through a transformational period, but I have been at this game for a lot longer than a year and I have learned a lot from people like Mystery, Ross, David D, Lance Mason and others and I have had a lot of experience out in the real world with people that are more than willing to lie to you, have bad attitudes, or are just plain old difficult and negative people and I am working those areas to the the best of my ability.

It's good that he is being civil and I like that, but there is a difference between being civil and supplicating and it is important that people know and understand the differerence as that is what we have been being taught by people like Ross, Mystery, David D, Lance Mason, and all of the other's.

They are also trying to convey to us that we need to be not only reinventing ourselves, but that we need to be standing our ground by adopting the attitudes and beliefs of the Alpha Male as that is what women and a lot of other people just find so damn attractive.

I admit that I am not perfect and that I do make mistakes and I am working on correcting those mistakes by trying to learn from them and by trying not to repeat them as the definition of crazy acording to people like Albert Einstein, Dr. Richard Bandler, Dr. John Grinder, and Dr. Milton Erickson is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results and that is the entire premise of what NLP is all about.

I guess that you are just going to have to take some time to get to know me before you start ridiculing me as I know a lot more than what you are giving me credit for and unlike a lot of other people I am trying to be proactive and positive with my life by making better decisions than I did in the past and I am trying to be a lot more positive and outgoing than I once was.

Thank you and I think that perhaps that might be a good idea. I can't say that I know everything but I have learned a lot and I am still learning all of the time.

Contrary to what others may say I am not a David D junkie or a junkie of any of the alledged gurus, but I do believe in some of what each is saying as I have seen different aspects of it all play out in real life and I continually do.

I guess that you could say that I got my start in the game through David D and that was back in 2004 just prior to my divorce from my ex wife. Ever since that time I have evolved past that point into studying the works of people like Ross Jeffries, Mystery, Style, Lance Mason, and a whole host of others that I can not even really remember.

I have also hung out and spent a lot of time with a friend of mine that lived in Portage, Indiana. He was a natural and he advocated the Cocky and Funny techniques that David D advocates.

Unfortunately he kind of dropped me when I started trying to explain to him about some of the stuff that I started learning from people like Mystery and Ross because he did not understand the power of NLP & hypnosis.

I have also been introduced to the concepts and teachings of people like Dr. Milton Erickson, Dr. Richard Bandler, Dr. John Grinder and I have also gotten into areas like business and have found that there is a correlation between the game, business, sales & marketing, and pretty much just about any area of life that you can think of.

I have even found out that it is very possible to use stuff like NLP & hypnosis in business, Sales & Marketing, and I have discovered that much of what Ross, David D, and Mystery are talking about is true as the better looking the chicks are the more of an attitude they get and they atart think that they are Gods gift to man and that their shit don't stink and that why you have to knock them off of their little pedestals and bring them back down to reality, but unfortunately that is not always very easy to do as often times they will either lie outright or they will start to become defensive just like some of the people in this forum have already done.

rdonovan1, just keep in mind that phrases like "be chivalrous" and "be yourself" come full circle. They will mean different things to a true PUA than to an AFC.

And a PUA will interpret situations differently than a wbAFC, AFC or rAFC.

Get Blueprint

That is a very good point and thank you for reminding me about that as I know that it going to be an important part of my game. I'm not sure as to what is going to happen in my life at the moment but I have long suspected and believed that the whole reason that I was introduced to the pick up arts was to not only improve myself, but to also try to undo some damage that I did back in 1987.

I know that it may sound crazy to some people, and whether people like it or not I am a christian and I personally believe that my introduction to the pick up arts came as a result of a plan that God devised for me a long time ago and that I am only now starting to get any kind of a clue as to what it could be.

I have long suspected that a lot of his reasoning and his plan for me has to do with a girl that I once knew and fell in love with back in 1987 when I was in high school.

I guess that you could say that I just really did not know as to what the hell I was doing at the time and I guess that I was pretty stupid back then because I let the one girl that had meant the world to me at that time go because of my stupidity and because I did not know how to properly respond and it is in my opinion that because of that because of the way that I grew up that God has been trying to give me a second chance by introducing me to the pick up arts and by encouraging me to educate and improve myself for the better.

I can't say if I will ever see this girl again as I know that she is currently married and I really don't care either, but I do believe that it is best for me to be prepared in case I do see her again as she is one tough cookie.

In the mean time I am going to play and have as much fun as I can. If I meet a woman along the way then so be it, but I am just not going to worry about it.

I am in fact just starting to sarge a girl right now, so we will just have see as to what happens with that.

You know, we ought not to be so quick to write her off. Naturally she sees things from the perspective of a girl, which can be skewed--but she also knows what has worked and what hasn't. if something works, rather than tell her that's not how we play around here, we ought to figure out if it is simple due to a misperception on her part, or if it isn't--why it works and at least consider integrating it into our gameplans.

Also, I disagree with you about "leagues". Leagues are very real. Claiming to be an alpha is trying to place yourself in the top league. I think what you mean to say is that if there is a girl you want, anyone has the potential to attract her.
What would she gain from that?

_________________
Lo' there do I see My Father.
Lo' there do I see the line of My People, back to the beginning.
Lo' they do call to me, they bid me take my place among them.
in the Halls of Valhalla, where the brave may live forever.

You are right we should not be so quick to write her off. I agree with you on that 100%. But we also need to keep in mind that we are players and that we need to take anything that she says with a grain of salt.

If we do not then we are disregarding and disrespecting everything that the game is all about.

You might want to check out some of my other posts and read what I have said and as to what other people have said before becoming so judgemental.

I know the game. I'm not perfect at it, but at least I am trying. I am in fact at this moment sarging a girl, but I really doubt that anything will become of it as I think that she lives in California and I live in Albuquerque, New Mexico.


I guess that we will just see what happens. I'm kind of having fun with it as she said that she wants to have 50 kids. I don't know about you, but that is a lot of kids and I am trying to find out as to how she proposes to accomplish this goal. I am not supplicating to her either like most people would. I am using what she gives me and I am having fun with her about it.

I am assuming that she wants me really bad and that is the mind of a player and an alpha male. I am making her work for it instead of it being the other way around like an AFC would do and I figure that if she does not like me, then that is her loss and not mine.

The alpha simply assumes the position as leader without thinking about leagues in the first place.

Bringing forth the notion of leagues would only beta a man because it would make him obsess over trying to get to the top without actually being at the top... if you know what I mean

If an alpha never bothers to even think about leagues, we shouldn't have students of the pickup arts obsess over them by identifying "leagues" as some sort of independent variable that can be transformed into a dependent variable.

Whether leagues exist or not, they should be out of sight, out of mind. If you were overweight and wanted to lose weight, cake should be out of sight, out of mind. It's the same thing. Cake is bad for you. Stay away. AFC mentality (thinking about leagues) is bad for you. Stay away.

Welcome to the Forum AdamsApple.

As was said before it never hurts to get another opinion on the forum... even if it's from a female which makes it inherently crazy.