Just for the record I'd also like to say that my therapist had some great insights on this issue. Yeah, I'm pretty fucked up so I have to go to a therapist. But now things are much better. Anyways, we digged deeply into this friendzone trauma I have from I was 15 to I was 19 with "my first love." He thinks when I have healed from that grief that that situation caused, ie, allowed myself to fully experience those painful emotions and memories and fully mourn them, then I won't any longer hide my authentic self in fear of being rejected in relation with women, so then I will express myself fully instead of hide in this fearful "nice guy" persona. So I think both pickup and therapy is good for growing into ones alpha-male potential (or whatever you want to call our potenial for becoming whole and complete as human beings).

OKey, holy crap, this girl this thread originally started with, she was supposedly going to invite me for tea when she had landed after moving to a new place. I was waiting, but loosing hope, but bang, suddenly I got a message from her on facebook, she had been thinking about me and wondered if I wanted to come with her to some kind of public discussion about "the cult of positivity" and the meaning of life. Of course I said yes, and it turned out I was the only one she had invited. We drank two beers each, and had a lot of fun giving each other comments about this discussion while it lasted. After that we went to another pub and drank two more beers each. Lots of really deep conversation, and we both expressed how much we enjoyed each others company and blablabla. I didn't manage to escalate so well, but at least there was much more teasing and laughter in the conversation, not only just "deep philosophical stuff," much more fun mixed in. So we ended the evening and I said that I wanted to follow her home. Initially she resisted, but I said it was important for me to make sure she arrived safely home. We had lots of fun walking to her place. So when we arrived at her door, she wanted me to come inside so she could show me her new appartment. I came inside, and she showed me around, and here is like where I'm going to have my kitchen table so when that is in place I'll invite you over for tea, and that sort of stuff. Well, so I say, "looks like a really nice place now follow me to the door." She does, and when I go for the kiss in the goodbye-hug, she gives me her cheek, and then I go for the kiss one more time, and cheek on more time, and the we stand there looking at each other, probably saying something about how nice it has been and I kiss her without resistance, but only quickly (she probably would have resisted if I took longer time with it," and then I hold her hand and kiss her hand and saying that she is really really beautiful, and she tells me some spiritual shit about my ability to see beauty in her only reflects back on my own beauty or something along those lines, and I say kind of "well I hope that is so " and give her my last kiss, this time from a greater distance, but really perfectly and passionately delivered, but she can't really do anything else than passivly receive and that is the last thing I do before I quickly leave.

Naturally my feelings about this is ambivalent. I'm glad to have demonstrated my passion for her, but also it felt intrusive, she seemed at bit surprised, but didn't give me strong resistance. Also the comfort we have been building now for the three times we have been hanging out together has been really really high quality, it is just that my physical advances are a bit, well, hmm, not like a natural build up, although, this is the first time we drank together and I followed her home so it shouldn't be too surprinsing that I went for the kiss either.

I think I would have felt like a total failure if I didn't make any moves this time, so at the very least now she knows I'm the kind of guy who will go for the kiss, and she can decide based on that what her next moves towards me will be.

What to do next? Give her some few days? Excuse my advances in message "Sorry if that was a bit intrusive but you are just too damn beautiful." ? Or invitate her out again just pretending like everything is as it should?

Help desperately needed

Woohoo! Didn't contact her, and she initiated contact with me again today through facebook, picking up on some of the topics we discussed last time. She was even flirty. I asked her out again tomorrow, but she was busy the whole day, but said she appreciated I was asking. I can safely say that this woman is digging me and wants to be in my life, and that probably I have a fair chance of turning it around to something romantic from my typical tendency to end up in friendzone in this situation. Next time I see her I'll be even more flirty and I'll try to touch her much more so she is more warmed up for further escalation. Last time I probably went way too quickly from only very little physical contact to going for the kiss and she was probably unprepared for that, but I think it had a very positive effect after all. I'll leave it hanging for now, and continue to pursue other women as well, and I'll just see where and when we're picking it up again. Best thing is, my old tendency to desperately wanting to do the stupid "what is going on between us?" talk is totally gone. I'm fine keeping it fun and playful, and I should probably steer it towards more fun and playfulness.

There aren't "12 inter-dimensional chess moves" before the kiss. You just go for the kiss when you want to kiss her.


Yes, good move. You need to completely weed that out of your personality, as do all men.

_________________
Pickup coach. PM for direct, simple coaching.

Your comments are always great, Arch!

I was planning to invite this girl out again, but my intuition tells me I will force a rejection if I do, and that it will be better to just let it be for a while and focus on other girls. Also I was getting too oneitis about this, so it was good to think that I will let it go for a while. Been meditating on this stress/trauma/panic that has been coming up and it now seems gone, and my focus is back on my purpose and other pickup possibilities.

Went out tonight. Got drunk. But damn it. There are just so many possibilities. I'm re-reading "The Game" again, and I could never imagine how much importance forums like this one have had on the movement before I actually got hooked myself. I'm hooked now. I really am. And I'm glad I am. I've been so half-heartedly about this before, because of shame and shit, but now I'm proud, I can identify. Hanging out with men, and seeing/listening to all that lame shit they/we talk about all night long, I'm glad I'm becoming the one looking around in the pub being open to all the social dynamics going on all the time, not just stuck in my head and needing someone else to help me sort out the shit I'm stuck in, that lame ass lukewarm fucked up pseudo-wisdom people desperately loop on year after year, but actually instead being open and receptive to all the sexual signals being signaled all the time. It's much easier than I've ever thought, but I'm still slow, somehow, in my learning, I'm taking my time, being sensitive and all that shit, but more important than that - I'm steady and I'm commited. Combining forums like this, with the literature, and with actual field experience, is dynamite. I hope to meet my first real life mentor in this real soon. Gratitude to all of you.