Definitely go. Definitely show them how you've changed. Definitely let the new alpha male in you come out. Definitely game. Show them something they are not expecting to see from you. For some, it will repel them, but for some, it will surprise and even amaze them and will inevitably turn them on. Also, I wouldn't talk shit about men gaining and women going downhill, but do run game with your alpha male that you've brought out of yourself.

Whats a good way to build comfort with someone when in a group situation? I'd feel a bit weird going kino on just one person specifically when theres 5 other people there. It's a pretty even dude:girl ratio, so I can't kino the rest, either.

Also, is it possible to recover from maybe appearing too eager early on (called the next night, left voicemails a few days later [no reply], left it a few days, called again, got a text back , but didn't want to hang out outside the group)? I'm basically not going to call/text (which was no doubt my mistake, gotta ignore those chump instincts), and thinking maybe freeze-out when in the group again.

If you want to progress with the target, kino is EXPECTED even when in the group. She has to know you're comfortable with touching. Whether you touch the rest or not doesn't matter so much, although if you are comfortable touching guys non-sexually, as in you being buds with them, that will go over very well with the target too. And you SHOULD be comfortable being able to do that.

It is possible to recover from being too eager, but it's hard. You say that you called the next night, but did you actually talk to her? You say you left voicemails a few days later. Does that mean you called her each day for a few days? Or waited a few days to call back? Maybe she was busy, who knows? You texted back and forth, which means that she reciprocated in the texting. That's good. She doesn't want to hang outside the group, so you haven't built enough comfort with her.

Basically, you need to build more and more attraction, BOTH. I wouldn't freeze out next time you're with her. Instead, build comfort AND attraction next time you're with her.

Thanks for the very quick reply! I was actually halfway through editing the last post when you replied. I'll use this post to amend any info you need. All the info up to about Monday is here (general-pointers-vt18690.html), but I'll go over some of it here.

Actually, come to think of it, we were sitting next to each other, legs would occasionally touch (yeah, im not taking this as the kino), we'd sorta give each other a little playful shove, say something like 'you're in my area', high-fives etc., obviously I need to step it up.

Next two days (Thursday and Friday) calling up about what was happening is in the other thread.

I wait around for a call-back (for some reason, I didn't exactly indicate I wanted one) over the weekend, tried calling on Monday, left a message (said 'You should call me back') she texted back was bowling or something like that, asked what was up. I waited until lunch the next day to text back, basically just about how bored I was at university, got a few replies.

Called me up on Wednesday, asking if I was going to the group event, then called back a little later to call it off, as basically everyone else had to have an early one (found out later she called up my roommate to see if she wanted to come too). Suggested maybe doing something this weekend ('I'll call you or you can call me' were my words, and needless to say she gave me a bit of shit about saying something that obvious). I ended up going to the original event with another friend anyway, then afterwards texted back saying how it was (idiot!), no reply.

What's your opinion, and where should I go from here? Apologies for the longer than average post.

Ok, one note about the other post . . . you called TWO times and then she called back: Basically, she's humoring you here. You're being way AFC actually. You should be teasing her and busting her. Instead, you're offering her anything you can to keep her attention. Once again, very AFC. "you can come along if you like, or I might run into you later, w/e, bye." She hears "he's waffling big time. he doesn't know what he wants. he has no plans/goals/he doesn't know what he's doing or where he's going. I don't want this." OK, now THIS stuff is actually good. OK, I'm guessing that this is what I quoted above? So, you had the good rapport I just complimented BEFORE this part, eh? You don't have to indicate you want a call back. If you do indicate, then just "call me back" is sufficient. But you don't have to. If she's interested, she WILL call you back, or at least text you. Depending on her level of interest. If it's "he's OK", probably a text. If it's "he's really something" probably a call.
Now, the fact that she replied back and forth to your texts the next day is a good sign, albeit not great, but good. OK, nothing wrong with you texting her about how awesome the even that she missed was. No reply? No big deal. But, what does stick out is that she was looking around for reasons not to go with you. If she had to go, she didn't want to go alone.

Apparently there is SOME attraction there, or she would just be freezing you out. But, she's seeing a guy that is not concrete with his plans or with his intentions, and this does NOT turn a girl on.

You do need to step it up if you want anything at all to happen here. Start flipping the attraction switches:
1. Leader of men
2. Pre-selected by women
3. Willing to Emote (show some emotion0
4. Protector of Loved Ones
And willing to take risks. And, you NEED to make up your mind about things. Don't give her the choices for what you will be doing, or for what you and can do. YOU make choices, stick to them, and if she doesn't like those choices, tough. You move on to someone else. You've GOT to show her that you are a man worth her pursuit.

Don't always take the initiative to contact her. Let her contact you. For instance, just tonight I took the initiative to contact a girl I picked up a month ago. And, each and every weekend before this weekend SHE has been the one to initiate contact with me. I finally did it first this weekend. Just like any other girl, she plays it off that she's not THAT interested, but if she wasn't she wouldn't be contacting me to begin with. And wouldn't continue to contact me. So, let her contact you. If she doesn't . . . MOVE ON. If she does, she WANTS and NEEDS to see a guy that will flip the above switches in her.

Now, what I would do, if I were you, in this situation is invite her to ONE last thing that is a GROUP event where she can hang out with you and some friends (either your friends or hers, doesn't matter) and YOU start leading. Then, from there, let HER contact YOU. You escalate kino at that get together, and push boundaries, but pull yourself away as far as going home with her. Don't do that. Pull back there, and let her contact you. If you can pull that off, you will start turning things around with her.

Very comprehensive and thorough, and it all makes sense.

What confused me was how it went from a good rapport (She said 'you have my number, let's do something' before and after the whole 'you didn't have to stay...' debacle. Actually, the week before that she came ot visit her friend/my roommate who was sick. Roommate went to bed and we hung out for a few hours, shooting the shit. This is basically what made me decide to send her a text the following week. There was also other stuff like inviting me out the movies a while ago with my SPAM, but a friend was kinda interested on her so I flaked out) to, well, this. Doubtless had something to do with me being all 'whatever' about the whole thing, as well as the way I called (I hate voicemail. I'll call, then if I don't get through, I'll hangup for some reason, then go 'argh, I suppose I'll leave a message', then call back up again a few mins later). I don't want to be too eager (which is what I was worried about), but appearing disinterested will do me no favours, either.

This:
was way off, I don't know how I got that messed up. I said that I'd be going to the concert anyway (everyone I spoke to suggested that I invite to something I was going to do anyway, and we didn't end up going due to the confusion), and the 'if it happens' thing was about doing something that weekend (which wouldn't've worked, she had a family thing on). Can't believe I misquoted myself! Our conversations are filled with us busting each other, I think its much more fun to talk with someone when you're making lighthearted fun of each other.

Anyway, as for the group event, since it's the Easter weekend, it's probably not a good idea to suggest something Fri/Sat night (even though I'm doing something with friends both nights, probably more family stuff going on), so I'm thinking just leave it until the usual group thing on Wednesday, see if I get another call about attending, and follow your advice from there. If not, forget about it, move on.

Whichever way it goes, your advice is pretty top notch, it's much appreciated.

This is true. Sounds like a plan.

dude, i've been recommended to use a bf destroy on a girl i've known for 5 months.. we get pretty close, physically and spiritually, but i can't get her naked cos of her bf.. and maybe i come on too strong.. what are some good bf destroyers? i think he might bore her, and possibly not make her come.. it feels like she's my gf when we're together!! ! it's driving me crazy!

First, forget about the part where it feels like she's your g/f when you're together. That's one-itis in the making, which is already apparent, since it's driving you crazy. She probably knows you don't have any other options, which is bad from the start. You're probably not the leader of men either, which is another attraction switch. Anyway, I won't give you a word for word routine for a b/f destroyer, but I will give you the principle behind why it works. You build her b/f up to a higher standard than what he really is, in order to get her to start saying "no, he doesn't do that." Get her to start repeating that a few times, which lowers his status in her mind. Then you tell her it would never work out between you two because you would basically do things you BETTER NOT actually do. For instance, you tell her that he probably calls her everyday to make sure she's ok or w/e. She says no he doesn't. You would say AFTER you've gone through several of those scenarios about what he does, you would say that it would never work out between you two because YOU would call her 5 times a day and stalk her. But you say it with a smile, and even a playful push. So she knows you're joking. That's the essence of a b/f destroyer. It will start drawing her to you. However, after being this close to her for 5 months, I will tell you it's gonna be HARD to make a b/f destroyer work. She already knows you WELL. She most likely knows your habits, how you work, etc. So, she knows who you are, and if you start running a b/f destroyer on her, she's gonna know that YOU know already what he does and doesn't do. So, in essence, you being as close to her as you say you are, and knowing her for 5 months is actually going to work against you. I mean, don't get me wrong, give it a shot and see if you are one of the lucky ones. But, if it doesn't work for you, what YOU need to do is game OTHER girls, get OPTIONS so she KNOWS that she's not the only one in your life. And, start leading some guys in something. She will see these changes and THAT will have an effect.

well thanks for your tips.. i know it's not good having known her for a while.. she's said before maybe when her bf leaves town, which is in a few months.. actually she repeated that a few times the other da.. and yesterday said he wants her to leave town with him.. but i think she doesn't want to.. and suddenly (?) shares my dream of owning a farm sometime! oh, and it's a bit weird.. she sort of expects me to have other women - which i sometimes deny aqnd sometimes don't ( sometimes true and false), but it seems like she wants me to have cos she feels bad about having a bf.. she definately gets jealous when i do mention other girls..
actually this destroying might work with her bf, because i don't know much about him at all.. i get the impression he isn't calling too much. she doesn't sound too excited with him either.. but maybe she likes it that way.. with him anway! i probably give her more attention now.. some say back off... one-itis yeah.. maybe i should play around more and get more confident with it.. a haircut and new clothes seem to make an impression on her
another problem is that i'm now teaching her english.. good for conversation etc but i'm doing something for her...!

That's all that I need right there to tell me this is one-itis. You're done with her man. You're LJBFed and you're staying there. That's why she's telling you to get other g/f's. This isn't a problem if you're an actual teacher, but if you're just helping her, then yeah it is. I'm guessing she's foreign then?

Anyway, I would repeat my previous post about the attraction switches, but I'll just say go back and re-read those man.

And, move on and game other women.

the LBJF thing seems difficult to break through yeah.. think i should make a few changes.. and i actually am a teacher yeah.. damn, there's many to be chasing, but i hate losing out on this one!
oh, and i didn't cut the hair and get clothes for her - but for me and the next ones haha
and yeah she's Chinese..i'm in China teaching - and meeting lots of girls.. maybe alpha would kill it here with the subconcious and history... I'm reading alot though many contradictions exist!
Thanks for your help dude.. i feel stronger when I feel stronger

Interesting. I have a student I'm personally mentoring also on this forum that's from America but is teaching at the moment in China.

Anyway, dude, those words are backwards. That's another problem. You don't need to be chasing all the girls. They, or at least the target, should be chasing you.

You're reading a lot but contradictions exist? What are you reading and what are the contradictions? Your welcome for the help. That's what I'm here for.