OK I'm new here and here's the deal: My friends cant believe I have trouble with women and frankly, I cant figure it out myself. They always say you are "way too good looking to be struggling dude" and it just makes me feel worse. I told this 1 guy 1 day how TERRIBLE I am at getting a date and he basically called me a liar to my face, saying there is "no way women arent lining up for you, way too handsome". I HATE HEARING THIS SH*T BECAUSE IT MAKES ME NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT MY PROBLEM IS!!!!

Please don't mistake what I'm saying as ego or in love with myself, that is far from the case. But I would say I am about a 7 or 8 easy in the looks dept on a scale of 1 to 10. My guy friends call me a 9 or 10 looks-wise, but I wouldnt go that far. Physically I am in decent shape, nothing like Bruce Lee or anything but I work out everyday. 6'2 inches tall. I often even get told by WOMEN how handsome I am.

Why I am saying this is, I don't understand my problem with women. I know women aren't visual creatures but I should be having MORE success than I am. My personality is not terrible, at least I dont think it is. I tease women at bars (or neg as you call it). I am naturally a very nice person and can make a woman laugh. So I ask the following: Why do I have such a low success rate of women calling me back? I get numbers EASILY but they just don't call back!

I live in Chicago and have a steady job, but I am certainly not a stock broker or Doctor in terms of money. Is it a financial thing?? I see gorgeous women all the time with ugly, fat little trolls who have the personality of a rock, yet, surprise surprise they just "happen" to make 6 figures (yes I am bitter lol).

Anyway back on track, I get a good rap going with women, have little trouble approaching them. But I admit sometimes I stumble a bit in the conversation (who doesnt though unless you are Mystery, the PUA on TV). But overall nothing where you'd cringe. I ask their number and they give it with no hesitation. I wait a couple of days and ALWAYS get their f*cking answering machine. And of course...it's "THE END" time. I never hear from them again.

WHAT THE F*CK AM I DOING WRONG HERE??!! I am a late bloomer here, in my early 30's and just starting out on the bar scene. As I said, my looks are good and I think my personality is ok but SOMETHING IS MISSING/NOT WORKING!!!! Why do these women NEVER call back? Why do they give their numbers if they dont intend to call back? WHY WHY WHY!!!! (I know, I am a little b*tch but I assure you I don't act like this outside of the PC world, just venting a bit).

Am I being too nice?? I am naturally a "NICE GUY" (yeh one of those) but I fight it when talking to girls, of course (do negs and stuff). I get them to laugh but can never seal the deal. WHAT GIVES??? Thanks to ALL for answering. Oh, and if you don't believe me about my looks, please just "assume" I am, and humor me. "Assume" I am a handsome guy, and then tell me why I am striking out so much. Thanks AGAIN!

All I can think of is that perhaps you come across as a bit desperate/clingy. But then maybe I'm biased after reading your post (which comes across as a bit desperate/clingy). You say you stumble a bit in conversation, which could make you seem a little awkward or too eager to please. Body language says a lot too, I don't know what yours is like but sometimes guys have that look like they're hanging on to a girl's every word, practically on the edge of their seat anxiously seeking signs of approval/attraction and desperate to get that number. That gives the wrong signal to a girl - even if you're really good-looking, it will give the impression that there must be something else wrong with you for you for you to be this desperate.

But I don't mean to sound negative, you say you are "just starting out on the bar scene", it's normal to be a bit nervous and also to suffer some rejections, many girls won't call a guy they meet in a bar. Do you go out with your friends at all? Sometimes having friends around you can help boost your confidence and also makes you look better (and less needy). Just go out a few more times and "practice", don't attach too much importance to anyone you meet, relax and keep reminding yourself that you're hot and you rock. Well that's what I try to do, anyway...

i get flakes when i don't kino properly. Maybe you should work on that aspect of your game, neging / teasing builds comfort but kino separates you from LJBF. Hope this helps.

Thanks for replying. By all means, BE NEGATIVE lol. I appreciate the honesty because frankly, I want to know what I'm doing wrong. Truth be told I AM A BIT DESPERATE and perhaps even NEEDY. But I am always aware this comes across as to women and try to avoid seeming like I am. But how can you "fake" not being desperate when quite frankly, you ARE desperate? I guess that's a good question. Just so you know though, I don't talk to women like this "I think you're really pretty!! Gosh you're gorgeous!!" etc. etc. and yes I go with my friends, usually. I don't go alone (that would look sad I think).

OK heres another example: this girl I work with in the office seemed to really be into me when we met. Some flirting etc. I negged her, we had some laughs. LOTS OF EYE CONTACT AND SMILING. I definetely thought she was into me. Then about a month in she suddenly stopped talking to me out of nowhere. Short answers, and acted like she was in a hurry to get away from me (WTF?). I then asked her out by saying "we're gonna go out friday (friends and I) and have a couple of drinks, wanna come?" She said "I already have plans but mabye next time" with a shit eating grin on her face.

I assumed she wasnt into me, and quit talking to her. I remained friendly but stopped the joking, negging etc. Well all of a sudden she is coming back TO ME just like "old times". How do I respond to that? It's obvious she's playing a game of some sort. I have just continued to be nice but no more negging etc. Now it's me giving "short answers" instead of her. Kind of a role reversal. She said she had a rough day yesterday, and I just said "things will get better" with a smile. I would normally say something like "You had a rough day cuz you havent seen me yet" but since she shot me down once, I didnt bother. Was that the right move? How do you act when a potential interested girl says she's "busy" after you ask her out? I am not acting like I am angry, just like I lost interest a bit. Is that the correct way to go about it? Or should I be just as flirty as before? Do I wait until she makes a move now where its OBVIOUS she wants me to ask one more time? Or am I delusional, and totally "imagined" that she liked me when she never did, and just forget her?

This is just an "example" mind you. Any advice appreciated on it, just to help my mindset on how to act after being "shot down".

I didn't read the entire post , but , just in the title , I see that there is something wrong with the way you game these girls, first , you've got to be alpha , you need to take decisions , and , the subject is " I don't know why they don't call me back " !!! guy !! you need to be the one who call them , don't wait for them to call ,that is a DLV, too much afc, whether she likes it or not , she will be more attracted to you if you lead , than if you are waiting for her to lead , a woman doesn't want to lead, (exept in special cases, but first , learn to be alpha , learn the game ,the rules , and then break them whenever you feel the time has come , Style said something like that in the game)

I agree with what the last person said - I had the same reaction when I read your thread title. You can't sit around waiting for people to call you back. Yeah I know you probably don't want to call too many times because that seems needy... it's a hard one.

As for this girl at work, could be that she just isn't sure about you, rather than that she's playing some elaborate game. I've had people act this way with me too and I rack my brains trying to guess what they're thinking and it usually turns out they weren't thinking anything at all. My opinion on how you should act in this situation is : however you want!! If you feel like hanging out with her, ask her! Who cares if she shoots you down - her loss!! But on the other hand if you think she's going to be too much trouble, kick her to the curb!! There're other fish in the sea!

After I leave the initial message, sometimes they then block my phone when trying to call a 2nd time. So you can see where I'd get discouraged sometimes attempting to call back a 2nd time. Actually I'm a bit surprised you're telling me this, I'd always assumed you call once and if they like you, they'd call you back. But you're saying this isn't the case? Well I just called this "latest" one a couple days ago. How long in between calls do I wait before trying again? Some of the info is conflicting. On 1 hand I'm told not to be needy and clingy, and on the other I'm told I'm told I'm not clingy enough (lol). Ugh, I'm am so bad at this "game". Is there a normal planet out there? Well, that's another post.

I see, so, the thing you said about, you call once , and they call back... they will never call you back, I learn it. If they doesn't answer your call, may be it's because they're at work or something like that, or it could be that they doesn't want to see you again , at this point , the problem is in your game.

I don't know the right time to wait between two calls , and nobody know , it depends of the situation , so let's say there is no right time , do it when you thinkit is the time to do it.

If you're too much of a nice guy , if you're handsome , she will give you her number but it means nothing. The best way to get your calls answered , is to make a strong impression , to include her into your life plan, just a I'll call you tomorrow at 6 is enough, this way she knows you will call, and she would have no excuses not to answer , and if she is not answering , so don't call back again.

I understand that it is difficult , that's a hard feeling , but, see it from another point, you've got her number , next time you will do it better , for sure.

Look at it this way, at least they're giving you their real numbers, usually when a girl's trying to get rid of a guy she gives a fake one. How many times has this happened, you make it sound like hundreds? If it's just a couple of times it's probably no big deal, sometimes people change their minds. The initial contact is the only sure thing, you have to try to make sure you leave her wanting more. Try to establish more of a rapport during this initial encounter.

Oh and hey, blankfile, are you in France?? So am I!

I didn't read any replies, but first imperession matters all the time. Yea you can get the number but did you leave a menal note in her head that "wow this guy is (lets say) ambitious, he goes for his goals and beyond". Good looks, good body is a plus cause she sees that as your a healthy guy for reproduction, but do you have a "good past" that can create a positive future for you and anyone part of your life, she will want that. Then she will say to herself later on in time, wow look what I am missing......boom haha

If I'm wrong just say so, but thats my opinion

I'd actually feel better if they gave me a fake one. I tend to think them giving real numbers has more to do with them being afraid I'll pull out my cell phone and call them right there to test the number. But then again I have always been super negative. Of course one could argue back and forth whether the negativity is causing my problems, or vice versa. Guess it doesnt matter, something has to change with me and it sucks because I hate change. I hate trying to be something I'm not (I.E. leader of the pack and all that bullshit, thats just not me). I guess all hot women are the same huh? Like a cookie cutter mold. Geez, nice for the douchebags I guess.

Nice advice on the "when to call them" stuff, blankfile. Next time I get a number I will ask "when is a good time to call" or some such thing. Thanks man. I'm trying here, at least. More than I can say about myself in the past. I am still at the starting steps though I just have to remind myself of that. I think I am making some progress.

Naturally, I am the dreaded "nice guy". Wish I had a high paying, 6 figure job, truth be told. Then I could skip all this "alpha male" game bullsh*t. Funny how the girls don't seem to mind how wishy washy beta male and nice you are when you have a fat wallet, isn't it?

Thanks to all for replying!!

Just wanted to ask you all: Whats the best way to "kiss close" when they are there and I get a good rap going with them, BUT their annoying fat friend is cock-blocking me? That happend to me the other night lol. I had a good rap going with a hottie, she was playing with her hair and was laughing with me but then her fat, ugly "friend" said I needed to "back up" and I was being "too aggresive" (funny how her hot friend didnt seem to mind though). I mean, why do the fat ugly "friends" do this? Jealousy? How do you get around that to kiss-close? I need to walk before I run, so I figure my next goal is to kiss-close. I think I may be skipping steps here with the phone number thing after reading some posts here. Mabye I have to work harder THE NIGHT I MEET THEM and THEN they will call me back, but how do you do that when her dumb ugly friends are cock blocking or even kiss-blocking?

THANKS!

very good!

Read up on gunwitch and see if you can download the gunwitch method. Here are a key few points that you need to keep in mind.

-People aren't focused one you
What this means is that no people are not watching every single thing you do so don't sweat that stuff. Thinking too much about it makes you nervous.

-People are more concerned what you think of them
What this means is exactly how it sounds. When you meet a hot girl, you think subconsciously or consciously, depending on your level of game,"gee what does this hot chick think of me" When in reality they are thinking the exact same thing. Use this to your advantage. It will bring you into a better mindset.

Also read up on some laws of attraction. or NLP. It seems that your problems aren't external. I know what you mean though. Pick up artist community for the most part are AFC's or really ugly guys trying to get hot chicks. From what you describe it seems as if the girls are attracted to you based on your looks instantly and you need to keep the bar at that level or higher.

What I mean by this is that ill assume your one of those extremely good looking dudes. Im not too shabby myself although I don't want to sound as if im bragging either. I just know this because I was in the same situation. I used to attract hot chicks all the time.

I actually had a chick dig her claws into my friend cause she got so excited after seeing me. She said "OMG WHO IS THAT GUY and like accidental dug her nails into him. He's one of my closest boys so he told me about it" But it seems that when your attractive you don't need to work so hard on working for the attraction as much. You just gotta be that fun going guy who's confident. Let's just say you'll probably need a lot less work that some of the other guys out in the PUA community. Work on your inner game. It seems your self belief that you cant say anything interesting is holding you back. I used to get told by my friends that I used to say weird shits that girls didn't care about. If you work on your inner game, you wont have that fear holding you back as much causing you to slip up.

I hope that helps. Im no expert but I just know that I'm also in the same situation as you. I'm 6'0 215 pounds and fairly lean. So my problem isn't my look it was me being a social hermit and getting so caught up in working out.

Heck I started to work out to look better and be more social, but I got so caught up in getting big and crap that it did the exact opposite. I picked up a book called "ask and it is given"

It seems to be a self help book with exercises you can do to help improve your inner game. It seems like a mix of laws of attraction and NLP. Laws of attraction btw is the belief that thoughts attract other thoughts. And in this case it seems like thats what your going through. One negitive though like I'm good looking, I should be good with girls leaves a negative vibe in you. It makes you feel bad about yourself and as a snowball effect wreck havoc on your life in general. The bar, the girl at work who you can't seem to get down and im sure other areas of your life as well. It's worked wonders for me. PM if you want me to give you the link to buy the books. I think it will cost you like 25 bucks total to buy the two books. Or even just get one of them which is like 15. It's worth the read and you'll probably end up in a better place because of it.

isolation. If you don't isolate don't expect to get very far. I think AFC adam calls the fat friend who cock blocks you a "war pig"

It was the most hilarious thing I ever heard.

I was getting my freak on with a 9.0 and I couldnt isolate. My wing didn't know what the hell to do with the cock block so he stood there and I tried to work with my game with her friend there. Let's just say after like 4 minutes or so, her friend pulled her away from me and I was out of a dirty punani grind. I was quite upset as that crap slipped my fingers. I need to work with my wing to be more assertive. I literally have to throw him on top of the cock block or he wont move. >:[

The cock block was pretty hot too. She's still a war pig though