I've had a ton of success in the online dating world over the last year, but I just started reading these forums.

I'd like to correct a mistake I've seen repeated like a mantra over and over again here: that the most important thing is "standing out from the crowd" with you profile, and having a "fun" profile, or making yourself seem sexy and mysterious in your profile. WRONG. These are all good and all, but the #1 most important thing by a mile are your photos.

If you message a girl, 90% of girls will NOT even read your message or your profile if they don't like your photos. Yes, they just click straight to your photos and flip through them, then delete your message and block your profile from their future searches if your photos aren't up to par. So that clever message you spent 10 minutes crafting? Didn't get read, sorry. Your funny and clever profile? Wasn't even a factor if you can't pass the photo test.

I know this because I've talked to dozens and dozens of girls I've met in real life from the dating websites. When I'm on a date with them, many of them haven't even read my profile!!! They see my photos, read my message to them, and respond just from that. They start asking me questions on the date like where am I from, what do I do, etc., and then admit they never read my profile so they have no idea.
Then, once they are fuckbuddies, I'll even cruise their messages on their account with them and watch them as they select guys from the dozens of messages they get every day. They go STRAIGHT TO THE PHOTOS. If they like the photo, then they'll like the message they get from the guy. If they don't like the photos, then the exact same message sent from an ugly guy they will say is a 'creepy' message! lol - sad but true.

Once you pass the photo test, you profile is important. It should show your personality and not be boring. But do not underestimate the importance of your photos. Whatever message you send to the girl is a distant third in importance from your photos and profile.


Tips for your photos:
1) Have a girl look through all your photos on facebook and tell you which are the most flattering ones.

2) have a girl or girls screen your current dating profile photos and make sure any of them aren't unattractive.

3) do NOT put up an unattractive photo of you just because it's cool or you are jumping a walrus with a wakeboard or something crazy. The fact that you look unattractive in the photo is enough to remove it from your profile, even if you're doing something awesome.

4) Start bringing a camera with you when you go out and have people take TONS of pictures of you all the time. Even if you're not photogenic, after a few weeks, you'll be able to find at least SOME photos amongst the plethora of random trash photos that show you from an attractive angle, attractive lighting, out doing something fun, etc.

5) Use the "my best face" feature on OKCupid to have the community rate your photos and tell you which one is the best. www.okcupid.com/mybestface

6) If worse comes to worse, pay $150 and have a professional photographer take dating website photos of you. They are professionals and can make you look pretty damn good.


PHOTOS > profile > whatever message you write to the girl.

If your profile is really good to the point that you get messaged "What an amazing profile" or "I love your profile so much" then photos aren't even required at all.

Female attraction is based only 20% on how a man looks, it's how you make her feel inside that counts. The entire PUA paradigm is based on DHVs to create an attraction in your target. If all that mattered was how you looked then this entire forum would be pointless, if your not doing well then right a better profile.
Obviously if you look like Brad Pitt then put your photos on the dating site, but strictly speaking they aren't essential. The only exception being VPGs (Vacuuous party girls) to who your profile is just "words".

I spent two days working on my POF profile filled it with DHVs, emdedded suggestions, language patterns etc to the point were 75% 0f the girls I message reply. 50% I will go on a date with and 30% I FC and thats profile on it's own.

I'm average looking; maybe a 6 or 7 but all of my dates have been with HB8+'s.

Thats what a good profile can do for you.

I'm not saying that the profile doesn't count at all. The profile is certainly important, but she's NEVER going to read your profile, no matter how awesome it is, if you don't pass the photo test.
So you made a better profile and now get more messages? Great. That means you always passed the photo test for these girls, but up until now you had a crappy profile. That's fine. No girl is going to read your profile FIRST, decide it's awesome, and then message you even though she thinks you look bad in your photos (unless she is a fat ugly cow).

And I don't think these forums are meaningless even if photos are the #1 most important thing. Good profiles + messaging strategies (like learning that you should move for a date FAST after only a few messages instead of writing back and forth for 2 weeks) are invaluable to learn.

I just feel like too many posts here give people the wrong impression that photos aren't as important as other things. That is a dangerous impression to give since they should spend as much time on selecting their photos and creating really attractive photos as they do on their profile.

The funny thing is: if there is no photo then they will read your profile as that is all they have to go on.
I have asked girls I dated on POF what was the attraction (feedback to improve my profile) and all but one said the same thing....mystery, what do you look like, they just have to find out.

females may not care as much about looks, but online it's extremely unnatural. Girls like to feel unresponsible for whatever happens. They want to feel that they have the ability to deny it was their fault they met someone on an online dating site. It goes hand and hand with the anti slut defense in real life. It's why women won't sometimes kiss you in front of certain people, or if you brag about hooking up with her you'll never touch her again.

This online approach makes them very responsible for anyone they meet. It also prevents you from displaying positive body language, from showing her traits that convey your a leader or are preselected (although having an award on okc or female friends posting on your wall helps a lot). So it' difficult to "game" girls like you do in real life. You need good pictures to make up for the handicaps in your game. I would agree that they are by are most important on an online dating site, but a bit less important on social networks like facebook.

where can i find tips on making a better profile?

_________________
"Hi may I ask you a quick question?"

Brah speaks the truth.

When a girl visits your Facebook page, she first things she looks at are the pictures. Not only does she want to know what you look like, she wants to know what you're into, and who you hang out with. Pictures are the most honest source of this information, and if you don't have them, girls will just assume that your lifestyle is too boring to take pictures of. Anyone can write anything, and post it on a Facebook page. I've seen guys go on and on in their "About Me" sections about how they street race and beat people up, etc., when I know for a fact that they don't. It's all fake, and girls know this.

A well-stocked photo album beats a fluffed up information tab any day of the week!

I am going out tonight in the real world with my good pocket camera and get a friend to take lots of pics of me. Thanks Brah, I needed the reminder to do this, that was the reason I chose this pocket sized cam instead of a bigger one.

What if you don't have a Facebook account and aren't interested in having one.
I think a mix of some professional photos, combined with also taking a decent camera out with you and taking hundreds of pics, is the way to go.

If you don't have many friends, go to meetup.com, join a couple social groups and have your photo taken being with people at any meetup.

My post was more geared towards dating websites anyway. Mach.com, OKC, POF, etc.
I don't game girls on facebook.