Even though the PUA community has been expanding like wildfire, the pick up methods are almost dead. I will explain.

When the whole thing started a few years back, some PUAs came out with a specific system to meet women. Unnatural or not, they had step by step advice on how to pick up women. This was good as there was actually a game plan to pick up women. Best example would be Mystery method. The next wave of PUAs saw bashing these methods as unnatural and hard to learn, and came up with natural game. The natural methods stayed away from a solid structure but still taught lot of elements that real players often used to pick up women. Eg: Vindi carlo

Next generation of pick up artists went even simplistic. They presented the idea that none of this was needed. That all u need was a great personality, and some ability to talk. The downside was that there was no actual game plan and newbies couldn't learn how naturals operated.

The recent trend is even bizarre. Some of the latest books and posts I read simply ask people to dress well and do a lot of approaches. Let me ask this: How is this any different from the age old wisdom " Be confident and hit on a lot of girls"? The game is dead...New PUA books ask people to talk to a lot of girls until u get lucky. Am 100% honest here.

Well the truth is, thats not enough to pick up women consistently. Lot of guys who joined the PUA community were already normal guys with good personalities and jobs. Still they were not pulling girls because they didn't how to operate like a player. And trust me, being a player means not just being confident or outgoing.

To pick up women constantly u need good GAME. After hanging out with several naturals (my roommate himself is a natural), I learned that they do things that are anything but natural. They are MANIPULATIVE on varying levels. They LIE a lot. They will do and say anything to get girls into bed. I once asked my natural friend: Why do u think players get laid a lot? His answer was simple: "WE KNOW HOW TO FUCK WITH WOMEN'S MINDS".

So the truth is naturals are simply not confident guys with good personalities. Why do u think the term 'player' got a bad reputation? Its because of the manipulation and deceit involved.

So my conclusion is this. Simply being a confident, outgoing guy will not get u laid a lot. U need some degree of game whether u like it or not. Its time the PUA community went backwards in time. U dont need to be a player who doesnt give a fuck about women's emotions but u need to learn to be a bit manipulative. Learn to manipulate women's minds and social situations to your advantage. To compare it with marketing, u dont need to be a total scam but u need to manipulate customers a bit to sell ur product more..I hope this was an insightful post.

Cheers

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One Smile, One joke, One tease, One touch & She's Mine..

While I agree you can get laid by being manipulative and lying a lot, it's not necessary and will lead to all kinds of bad feelings and the occasional slashed tire or keyed car. Your friends are not being naturals or even players if you ask me, they're being scam artists.

It may seem counter-intuitive but it's just as easy to get laid by being brutally honest with women. As long as you can pull it off with a little charm and some sexual confidence, they often find it intoxicating and challenging when you say what you really feel. I've seen it, I've lived it. And when you're done you can call her again because you didn't feed her a ton of BS she's going to bust you on.
This is what the pickup industry does to guys, it's about 90% marketing and 10'% substance.
Agreed, but being a SEXUALLY confident, outgoing guy WILL get you laid a lot.

You develop your own method. Most pua methods are stepping stones to get you on your OWN way.

Nothing is gone or dead. The most famous i can think of all have proper guidelines and a style. 60, MM, RSD, PUATraining, Vindi-carlo etc, etc.


You have to do a lot of approaches to get good and start properly applying any method, although i didnt. It'd take me 5hours to do 1 approach on a girl who wasnt even hot and just say "hi" or something at first.


Optimistically you want to be just going out there and 'chatting up' girls whislt taking advice from other methods and peoples offerings.

FYI, almost every guy on the planet has some sort of 'game', they have things they say, do or act like around girls. PUA is about you making one that actually works

If you dont believe that every single guy has this (even george clooney) and can prove me wrong, Ill eat my own ear.

You just read a book, thought everybody did it and found out they didnt. Thats all.

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"You don't want girls to think you suck dick at fucking pussy"
-Seth (Superbad)

Lol so your roomate lies a lot yet you believe him when he says he banged a chick. Is he making you favors in exchange for his natural methods?

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Bow chika wow wow

I prefer using the term bluffing instead of lying. There's a lot to be gained in life, not just with girls, if you start re-evaluating your definition and appreciation of the concept 'truth'. Read what philosopher Richard Rorty has to say on truth if you need a jumpstart.

It would be interesting if someone combined say, the Sleight of Mouth patterns with PUA. So, anyone looking to make some money writing an e-book, have at it.

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Go.

Thread started by: Magneto
First reply by: Professor X

lol

It's not lying it's flirting?

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Name is MC I'm a number one rapper
I still buy toys and read comics on the crapper
Still playin' stand-up root beer tapper
I'm mackin' mad ho's and you're still fuckin' fat girls ~MC Chris

I've seen people say they're interested in long term relationships and stuff along the same lines to get a girl into bed. That's not flirting. That's lying.

The occasional story about how at one point you saved a puppy, or that the scar going up your side was caused by a shark attack is not lying if delivered properly. The 'lie' isn't part of any scam, you're just being funny. This is flirting.

Comedian's stories are rarely ever true. We don't ridicule them.

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Can you feel my dick.. Fucking your mind..?

Replying to the OP because it was interesting.

Why do you think that the "game" has developed like that?

The new books are written by the people who are good (learnt a lot) and they often forget how it was before they had any training at all, before they knew anything about game. So they give advice based on their recent level of game. Yes, I can agree with them, all you need to do is be alpha and awesome and then you get what you want. But that is just because I have years of experience with other methods in the back of my mind.

People do not think that they use any of the old PU techniques anymore because they do not call it "negs", "cocky funny" etc. But if you look at people picking up, that goes for naturals as well as experienced PUAs, you will see that you can identify a lot of stuff that can be found in books.

The natural stands around just chatting, oh he accidently slips in a neg, just because it fits him, he didnt even know it. A mPUA acts alpha, oh he accidenly said something cocky and funny, yes, that happens to all of us. It is just that for more experienced guys, it comes when appropriate and not in the taxi home (oh I should have said that).

For many reasons, many of the methods are flawed, almost all I guess. But take a moment and consider this, it was written and developed by someone to fit his personality.

The best way to stay alive in the jungle of PU is to find your personalized map and develop your own style, your unique way of behaving that improves you where you need to be improved.

I don not have the same weaknesses and strenghts as Mystery or David DeAngelo or Hypnotica or anyone, I cannot just follow what they have developed. Take the best parts from everything and fuse it.

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I'm not trying to be a dick Ezo, but you're being a Pick Up Snob in my opinion.

bbardot: you just reminded me about porn

I look at every incarnation of the community as something else I can use with Mystery and Style being the foundation. Their techniques, if used properly will get you laid still- but, eventually as even Style wrote, you have to develop your own game eventually.

Think of all these systems as tools. Nothing more. A hammer, a screwdriver, a plow, whatever. Study all of it and take what you can from it. You are the maker of your own destiny and these can help along the way- but only YOU decide what the end product is and which tools to use.

Word.

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Can you feel my dick.. Fucking your mind..?

Its great to see others responses...of course some agree and others dont..

To start, my roommate didn't lie to me..these are things I observed (He is dating a model now). And things he told me about him and other players..

Everyone knows u have to be challenging,mysterious, unpredictable..but its not easy to be those without some manipulation..I used to be a sexually confident guy who lets women know what I want..But truth is, then u r not a challenge anymore..or unpredictable..

I can give u a real example: Assume a newbie PUA gets a woman's number. He is throwing a party..he calls her and says "I have a party tomorrow..u should come" or some variation of that..And if she comes, he will talk to her confidently and build rapport..

A player does not do that. He calls her DURING the party and says " Hey I just remembered u, when I saw ur number..stop by if u r free"..and when she turns up, he totally ignores her during the party and flirts with other women..

Now that looks like harmless stuff but its mind fucking. Its manipulation. There are various levels of it a player/natural uses at various times. There are so many subtle tricks. Now the first approach (which is taught by PUAs these days) can work but does not fly well as the second one. The second one is extremely effective.

So this is what I meant when I said u have to be a bit manipulative. Like old age PUA methods. Newbies are too direct and straightforward in their approach. They are never the challenge or the prize. Again to repeat last post, u dont need to give a woman an emotional rollercoaster but the significance of some sort of game is undeniable.

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One Smile, One joke, One tease, One touch & She's Mine..

I have this two questions that pops out in my mind constantly when i read about being "manipulative". Do i care? and Does it work?

I like your post, recently i have found a very one sided opinion in this forum about how to game. Being manipulative BAD, being direct GOOD wich maybe right and maybe wrong is kind of dissapointing the lack of conflict (im not saying it is always like that).

When someone ask for puas like mystery or similar and get the "mystery FB" label on them. Sometimes is true, sometimes its not but i always hear the "i dont want to be manipulative" answer pretty often.

But my two cents on the subject is the this: the "Manipulative" label has layers its not black and white. And on the black and white thingie i may add that a big part of that "manipulative" label comes from moral opinion. Lets be honest, i honestly doubt the mayority of people learning pua aspire to become for the sake of being moral paragons.

More than asking or saying "being manipulative its bad" or "its not being true with yourself" or "its ok, to be manipulative?"

One should ask question like "Does is work being manipulative?" "how does it work?" "how do i learn to be manipulative?"

To me is like some pua theory became like Karate instead of "CQC". In karate isntead of teaching just how to kick people they teach you a way of thinking and a moral standpoint, instead in CQC they just teach you how to kick people, PUA should by my deffinition only teach you how to pick up. Things like whats right and wrong to do while picking up is left for your own morality to consider. You want to learn pua to fuck women and dont care for their well being? Cool, thats your choice learn the trade and be happy! Want to learn pua to cultivate wonderfull relationships and make the life of the woman you meet better that before? Thats cool too! learn the trade and be happy!

Would i lie to a woman to fuck her? All the time. Its being manipulative? yes. Im a bad person for doing it? No, im bad person for a lot of other motives


Just my opinion anyway

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NEVER CONFORM

@Magneto: From reading your post you seem like your still using materials, in my opinion I agree with EZO. PUA books is like the foundation of a house, its a stepping stone if you like.

Yeah I have noticed that alot of people use negs, c&f subconsciously because we as human are only open to what our minds are open to. we see them as negs or c&f etc because we have identified with such words in which we notice our own kind (sub-culture)

Being munipulative and being true to yourself - check your beliefs because I believe there are other ways to skin a chicken.

You have asked an opinion and its only fair if I ask a question, and my question is this.

Since you have read PUA books (build your foundations) by now do you have your own method, in a way you have your own way of PU without using any materials?

I also want to add that this is a good post, sometime last year PUAs were talking about turning back into naturals without using routines etc, I think that you might be onto something magneto, maybe on your journey from PUA back natural.

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Three Types of Players:
1) Those who doesn't know whats happening
2) Those who watch what happens
3) Those who make it happen

Systems and methods are just ways to sell books. The underlying keys, like confidence, humor, and physical escalation, exist in all of them with maybe some very minor variations. But if the guys who make money off pickup just said that was all you needed there would be like 4 books out instead of the dozens, hell hundreds I dunno. So another 6 months goes by and a new "method" comes out because it needs to be different somehow in order to sell. It's not that their bad, just not nearly as original as every new systems inventor would have you think. At the end of the day it is a business to some.

I agree with the general consensus here, though. Learn as much as you can, practice it infield and see what feels right and what doesn't. The end result of a little reading and some time/effort can be a style adapted to your personality that'll be much more effective for you than if you tried to follow something like MM to the letter.