I'm going to add this piece of insight to this thread.


ALWAYS admit your feelings, whether it's on the first date, the first moment, or a year into a relationship.

I strongly promote transparency in relationships. For anyone who's read Mark Manson's Models (a terrific book btw), you may remember the section on Honest Intentions. Honest Intentions is, in short, about being clear to yourself, and those around you, what your intentions are - it is about congruency of character (expressing what's 'alive' within you irrespective of what you may receive back in return).

Now before you go wearing your heart on your sleeve and sharing with everyone all your inner most feelings, whims and desires you need to understand boundaries first. Boundaries are the cornerstone to developing and maintaining healthy relationships. Think of your boundaries as a house, with a nicely pruned front garden, pathway, and white picket fence. Are you just going to allow anyone inside your yard, kick down your front door, and plop down on your couch dirty shoes and all? Boundaries are set FOR YOU, not anyone else. When one sacrifices (note how I don't use the word "compromise") their personal boundaries, they experience diminished self-esteem. They begin to feel less attracted to themselves, and as a result hold a more negatively nuanced vibrational frequency, or energy. This has a carry-over effect to others you're interacting with as they too, intuitively react to this energy and if you continue making such sacrifices you begin to allow more and more dark elements into your space/house; making it all the harder to get back to that pristine house you'd taken so long to build.

So boundaries are used as a sort-of slow brake (think of the hand brake on that BMX you had as a kid, when you went downhill and gently squeezed the brake to slow the speed of the bike down to something you could handle). Or think of it as a buffer of sorts. Those boundaries will SLOW the progression of you getting too invested in someone to the point where you start making decisions based on emotions, throwing any sense of objectivity out the window. It's under this circumstance where a lot of guys 'follow their heart' and become increasingly entrenched with women who are a poor fit for them, and in some instances violently toxic women.

So, what does this have to do with admitting your feelings in a relationship? Everything. Reveal only small bites of yourself in the beginning. Why do this? To see how receptive the woman is to you. If you tell her your feelings towards something inane or other, and she scoffs at it, or diminishes your response to that thing you're sharing with her - then that's a pretty good indication she may not be a good fit for you. You're actually qualify her in a sense to see if she's the type of quality girl who'll have your back and respond positively to you when you experience life's dents and dings. If she's an Avoidant type, for example, she may minimize your feelings about something. She may outright reject you, or change the topic (Avoidants get scared when they perceive someone trying to get 'too' close). Congrats. You've saved yourself from months or potentially years of drama through this little demonstration.

One caveat to note about revealing your feelings. Being VULNERABLE = highly attractive, being NEEDY = highly unattractive. The difference? A needy guy will tell a girl some sob story to get her sympathy, her validation. The vulnerable guy shares with her something intimate about himself irrespective of how she responds (though takes note of her response as a qualifying 'tactic' to see if she's a girl worthy of his time and energy).

Ask yourself: "Am I wanting to share this bit of personal info with her to win her over? Or because I truly value connection with people, what I am expressing is truly how i am feeling in this moment?" If it's the later, don't share. If it's the former, go right ahead.

Very good post, however regarding the last sentence isn't it the opposite: Better share feelings when you express truly how you feel at this moment, NOT because trying to win her over?

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"Tell the world what you intend to do, but first show it."

Yes I believe he made a mistake with "former/latter". Former = first (which is what I believe he was saying NOT to do); latter = last.

That said, some really good posts here (n2thevoid and neo87 but I havent read the whole thread yet). Its easy to see solid PUA advice and separate it from the bad or questionable - if it makes a ton of sense at every angle you look at it, take it seriously.

A word of caution though. Be conscious of the tricks your brain can play on you, misleading you to wrong conclusions. If you have very strong feelings, your brain will cloud your judgement and convince you that you arent being needy when, in fact, you very much are. I think you must *always* stop and ask yourself if your girl said absolutely nothing in return (or "OK") would you be at all affected by it? If yes, reel it in and wait until you can honestly answer "no". If you dont care what her response is, then by definition you have zero neediness. And then you can say whatever you want. Otherwise, she'll sense your neediness and it will devalue both your attractiveness and what you are saying to her. In the worst cases, she might think you are feeding her "lines".

Also recognize that the more strong your urge to tell her, the more likely you are coming from a place of neediness. At least thats my view.

Actions speak louder than words man..

Where guys make the error is when they express themselves to girl because they're trying to get the girl to be more into them than they actually are. It comes across manipulative and unattractive. Theres no need to ever completely pour your heart out, but there is nothing wrong with lightly reassuring a woman you're dating when SHE IS LOOKING FOR IT. She'll bring it up, she'll let you know when she needs a little assurance to secure her emotions. You don't ever need to randomly come out of the wood works detailing to a woman how interested in her you are.

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agree

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"Tell the world what you intend to do, but first show it."

Bad advice, IMHO. If you want to date 5's and 6's. go for it. But a beautiful woman who knows her value will see you as needy and stalkerish.



A date isn't a relationship, lol. Neither is the first moment.

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Good advice.

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Lol. Do you know how NEEDY it is, to NOT do something to obtain a woman?

I'm with n2 on his point, because I just turned 29, and I feel too old to do XYZ to get a woman and dont care what a woman thinks about me. I like you, you like me, sex is good, we have a good time...if thats not enough for you go and find someone you can play games with.

You care about her knowing HER value...what about you knowing YOURS? Where you dont care what she thinks. You're not trying to impress, and you're not trying to affect her mind. If I feel like i like a chick, I'll tell her. If me saying hey i like you makes her think im needy, then her needy radar is messed up. Alot of guys date women who have simply, COMMITMENT ISSUES so you gotta change YOURSELF to make it work with a chick with baggage. Thats all it is.

If you go up to a girl and say hey I find you attractive, and she thinks your needy and stalkerish, guess what...she has some kinda issue. Guys act like telling a girl you're fucking "oh I like you" is some sign of weakness. You're fucking. If you didnt like her, you wouldnt be going out with her. If a chick acts weird to this "revelation" she is fucking crazy. Not you. Is she that crazy and stupid that a guy LIKING her is some kinda red flag for her? She's really thinking "wow...I know we've been fucking and talking and dating for a few months, and Ive been cooking for him and even picked him up a thing I knew he'd like..but he just said he "liked me"...wow...that must mean he's a stalker....its crazy to like someone!"

1000% agree with n2, dont be a needy person and do what you want to do. Dont give a fuck how she reads your actions. If you're not a needy person, and she thinks your needy, thats HER issue and thank the stars she ran. Because what she wants is the guy who will play hot and cold and ride the rollercoaster of drama with her.

I agree with this. But let's say you find a woman who completely rocks your world. You're not going to want to lose her, at least not until your attraction fades. You will make adjustments. Some women are just better than others, like some food is better than other food. You'll keep going back to that restaurant.



That works for pickup game, but it doesn't work in a relationship.


Disagree. Hot girls hear that boring line all the time . She'll think you're the same as all the other guys who have gushed that her entire life.

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If I lose her so what? To use your restaurant analogy, I'd go find another restaurant. If she's rocking my world, I should be rocking hers.

Actually, changing yourself works for pickup and a quick lay. Valuing YOUR happiness before hers, is FAR FAR more effective long term than valuing HER opinion. Do you not see how needy and backwards this sounds? The moment you start the "I need to hold on to this chick" menatlity, you lose.

Again, this is more neediness and insecurity. If she cant tell I'm different, then its not my job to change her radar. My delivery, my grooming, my body language, my eye contact...these things communicate I'm not gushing. Same way I wont be afraid to tell a chick I like you. Cause up to that point she has miles of evidence I'm not needy.

There was a time when I'd use the whole preselection thing. If I was on a date, I'd drop a line or 2 about an ex, or a chick or something. Then I just stopped caring. For a while, I stopped dating to focus on work and shit. Cut of fwbs just because I had shit to do and wanted to start fresh. So after about 2 months I started dating again. Chicks would ask me "so you must be dating alot." I'd be honest. Actually, nope this is my only date this week I have other things going on. Thought it would make chicks not see me as attractive before cause I was basically saying there were no other women on the first date. But guess what. Chicks went crazy. Because at that point, the way I carried myself and looked, chicks knew I could get women. So even though I was saying I wasnt sleeping with or seeing anyone and being honest, they went crazy for me because they could tell i could get women. Whatever I said didnt matter, they could tell this is a guy who doesnt care what I think, we're having a great date...its not a problem for him to get laid. I say that to convey that, caring what they think is worse than just being honest.

And I know it all sounds like platitudes, and I'd be the first to say improve yourself to the point where you dont care.

I wrote a thread about this a while back. Hot girls only think that's boring if she hasn't recognized your value. Hot girls love to be complimented on their attractiveness in most occasions. Hell, they work hard to look good most of the time. If Brad Pitt lookalike walked into a bar and complimented the hottest girl there on her beauty, it would make her night because she can see his attractiveness/value right up front.

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True. But I think you're a bit try hard with the "so what?" comment. It would bother you. It's fake and cheesy bravado to imply it wouldn't bother you, lol. You'd be crushed.



It;s not about "I need to hold onto her" it's about "I need to keep improving my life".

Do that and you won't have an issue.
I agree that honesty and indifference is how you win, but there are differences between pickup and keeping attraction in a LTR.

I agree. But to say you wouldn't care if a girl you loved dumped you is intellectual dishonesty. Humans aren't robots, which is why so many good early pick up artists suck at LTR, and this is a relationship forum.

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I would be "crushed" over a fling ending? No. Disappointed? Sure. Crushed? No. When I say "so what", its not bravado....I'm alive, I'm healthy....a fling ending is no big deal. Women are one SMALL part of life. And there are millions of other women just like her. I wont be crushed because Ive had to turn down amazing women because I had other things to do and going on. So if a new chick doesnt want to continue, what is the big deal to be crushed?

I dont know how I'm afraid of her opinion about me = improving my life.
Its just valuing yourself. If you value yourself, you can like or love someone but still have your happiness as your priority. So you dont care what a woman thinks. Value yourself makes you not needy, it makes you improve yourself so things naturally dont get stale.
If we are talking about a girl I loved, yes it would suck. But as you said humans arent robots. Most of the time, a chick doesnt just dump you. So if I value myself, I would be the first one to feel things getting stale, or discovering we arent compatible. Why so many guys get heartbreak, is because they dont value themselves, so they brush aside issues to make it work. Then the chick dumps them.

I'm not even preaching honesty, moreso just stop caring so much what she thinks. I read these relationship situations and they sound unbearable. To me, dating/relationships should be where I relax, have fun, be myself, not stifle my thoughts and words because she may not like me. At that point if she's with me for my persona, I might as well get a mail order bride and at least I could be myself. And with so many women out there, why would I choose one where I have to strategize to keep?

Mystery had a routine back in the day where he'd ask a chick "how many days do you think are in a human life...dont calculate it just off of your gut feeling." And then the girl would say something like I dunno, a million. Then he'd tell her no actually a huma life is around 28,000 days....and then blah blah . And he used the routine to communicate that you shouldnt pass oppurtunities by or some shit to make it easier to lay her. Now, I dont know if its a good routine, but I think like this...I have less than 20,000 days left and best years are going. Am I really going to waste a DAY with a chick I cant be relaxed with? On my deathbed am I going to think "darn...I really wish that I had gamed that HB10 harder and kept her for a year with tough work and stress, instead of being myself and she didnt give me a second date?" I say spend the time you have enjoying the relationship you're in; not pretending to be someone else.

I agree with a lot of what you say in this post.

But as you said, there are only 20,000 days left, and the best years going. In that context, I'd rather have my dick sucked consistently by a hot girl who I had to occasionally game rather than not getting my dick sucked.

I can put up with flaws, with an understanding I may never find the perfect woman. How valuable is your time?

Tick, tock.

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