Quote the sentence and provide a link to the thread or it did not happen.

Secondly, your primary statement is not relevant at all to the topic. Likewise, your post has no logical structure. A simple logical framework goes like this:

1. Claim.
2. Supporting evidence or supporting reason #1
3. Supporting evidence or supporting reason #2
4. Supporting evidence or supporting reason #3
5. Summary or conclusion

You're simply ranting about your emotional observations and then nagging everyone with your whining and complaints. For someone who does not have a girlfriend or wife and doesn't go out of the house to interact with women, it doesn't make sense that you're rambling on seduction and relationship topics that you don't know about or have had any experience on at all.

_________________
Approach. Open. Escalate. Isolate

Here are my two essential rules on texting that will save you tons of time and money:

general-questions/topic137931.html

Come on. No need to get hostile.

Why on earth do people use the "dudes back in the day were this way" or "caveman did this." Times have changed. Stop making it sound like world war 2 era relationships just worked. It's more socially acceptable now to get divorced. It's easier now for a woman to get divorced and survive. Ever think that maybe divorce is up because it's easier to leave a marriage now? Whereas a woman would have to stick in it forever, she can walk. If you want to play by world war era rules, go back in time, throw the internet away, throw the cellphone away, marry your high school sweetheart and know that you can pretty much have illegitimate kids in other states and she'll still stay with you.

As to the emotional talk stuff, the concern is WHEN SHE DOES something that crosses a line for you. Not when you're having emotional problems of your own. Do you think in the olden days, men ignored there wives when disrespected? Freeze outs are the exact opposite of what the WW2 guy would come home and do if is wife disrespected them. Heck, they'd quicker slap them which is not a passive aggressive tactic. Now since, a WW2 guy would more likely be direct when disrespected, I could better use your argument to support mine, which would be to address it. Because in both cases, calling it out or slapping your woman is a direct address of the disrespect. But I won't even use the WW2 logic because of the reasons above. But please dont use the alpha male WW2 guy example in support of a freeze out. Because they DIDN'T freeze out their women when disrespected. They didn't use "non verbal communication"

To the emotional talk stuff about your own problems stuff, which was a derailment of what I was talking about, I'll repeat what I wrote. MAKE SURE WHEN YOU GET INTO A RELATIONSHIP, YOU'RE SHIT IS HANDLED. That way you're not breaking down emotionally every other day. That way you're secure in yourself. Have your support systems in place whether it be friends or family. That way when shit DOES affect you, which is inevitable you can go to whoever. But don't be afraid to tell your gf if something is bothering you. The irony is if you're that afraid to tell your gf something, are you really in control? If you telling her hey my job is stressing me out causes her to leave you or lose attraction, was the relationship strong?I never understand why you see relationships as this walking on egg shells thing but still deluding yourself that you're in some kinda control or position of power. Who is communicating strength? The guy not afraid to be say something she may not like, or the guy who is hiding stuff? I dont even think you're agreeing with HH, as far as I can tell his stance is cut and move on. Not ignore to stay.

Your post perfectly shows my point. You think MAN means indirect stuff. You think a man means hiding stuff. A man calls out bullshit or disrespect from her. A man may not necessarily go to his woman for his problems, but he sure as hell isn't afraid to lose her if he did. You play games with women, and wonder why they play games with you. You do passive aggressive stuff and wonder why they shit test. You don't communicate and wonder why you can't trust them. You mistake women being emotional creatures as an excuse not to look for maturity among them. Instead of looking for a woman, who is not a child, and can process simple "hey I don't like that you did this" can understand it was reasonable to feel disrespected, you find the immature chicks who will see this as some weakness. All of that was not aimed at you. It's not some big dream to expect a girlfriend to have your best interest and understand she was wrong, and move on. Fuck whoever you want to, but is it so much to say, as PUAs or whatever, if we are investing all this time in improving ourselves, in meeting women, we can pick women who have a level of maturity where we dont need to be afraid to say something?

I saw you demonstrating passive aggressive behavior in another thread, and then I see you promoting passive aggressive tactics here so It was really justifying my observation of you. - Conversation Over

Anyway, Neo I agree with everything you have said. A well thought out and valuable post as always. Has your girlfriend outright verbally assaulted you in attempts to make you feel disrespected? If she has do you mind sharing the story and how you dealt with it that didn't involve freeze outs. It would probably help future readers of the thread.

_________________
I am a hunter of human excellence. I seek out those individuals who break the norms
and demonstrate to all of us what’s really possible. I learn what those few
extraordinary individuals do that’s different from everybody else, and then emulate
them.

Again, the topic of this thread is NOT about me. It's about Freeze Outs in Relationships. You keep on derailing thread topics when you don't even go out and sarge nor have a girlfriend, FWB, or FUBU.

Moreover, my country has a Law on Violence Against Women. Shouting at women during an argument or slapping them are classified offenses (at least according to a lawyer friend of mine) punishable by law. If you like to promote that type of reaction, then don't involve me in it since those are illegal in my country.

Work on the Newbie Mission first. When you have had at least 10 girlfriends, then you can provide your 2 cents on relationship topics here. Keep to the topic and REFRAIN from attacking persons especially when the thread topic is NOT about the person.

Stick to the forum rules and DO NOT promote anything illegal.

_________________
Approach. Open. Escalate. Isolate

Here are my two essential rules on texting that will save you tons of time and money:

general-questions/topic137931.html

Chantos' mentality underscores the dichotomy between the old archetype of men being 'stoic' and silently suffering keeping their emotions tucked away and suppressed, vs. the new archetype bourn out of the Self movement of the man who is in-touch with his emotions and isn't afraid to present them to the world, so-to-speak, unapologetically.

Of course this doesn't mean to share your emotions with anyone at any time, nor does it suggest in any way for one to not take any responsibility for themselves. But to reference back to a bygone era (WW2) and how men dealt with things back then is a really simple minded, archaic, and myopic view of how males should be.

Chantos likely has a cave-man mentality the "it's my way or the highway" unbending/rigid view of how a so-called ALPHA male should be. I would imagine this poster will (and has) had a difficult time with women until he learns to loosen up on his views and hopefully develop a greater self-awareness in the process.

Whats a FUBU?

Guys...let's not take discussions to a personal level. This is the internet. I could be a fat woman eating cheetos all day talking shit and so could anyone of you guys. If you dont agree with someone words, debate it with logic and experience which others can connect with.

HH: Haven't read all the responses...are you saying that I promoted slapping women? Far from that. I responded to chantos assertion that men in WW2 handled shit differently ie freeze outs???Pointed out that if we were to follow old school relationship dynamics, we'd be closer to slapping women for disrespect than ignoring their calls for a couple of days. But in no way am I advocating using violence to settle disrespect.

Fudge: Whats an example of verbal assault to disrespect you?

Yeah, and the old time mentality paints the past in this perfect light which was further from the truth. If you compare the present with the past, you gotta be realistic about whether things DID work back then by being silent, or whether they didn't and there were just systems in place to prevent divorce.

A lot of these 'superior ways' of old, and increasing narcissist culture are what's fueling this whole 'being Alpha' mentality. It's so wayward and taking guys off course in terms of empowering themselves and being authentic to themselves.

It takes a LOT more courage to stick one's neck out, take that risk of being themselves in spite of the fear of not being accepted than putting on this stoic, untouchable front that's sole purpose is to conceal a frail sense of self.
Living egoically isn't strength, but rather weakness. It demonstrates how out of touch you are with yourself and the world around you. Being one's own person is being comfortable in one's own skin, and accepting one's imperfections as well as the imperfections within the world around him. Being abrupt, crass, and insensitive to the feelings of others, in addition to not showing compassion to one's self is weakness, not strength.

The guys who bought into the lie that being Alpha is the objective to "winning" with women are deluding themselves, and will only alienate themselves further.

If you look at a lot of the traits PUAs use to describe the Alpha male (having an ends justifies the means mentality, holding the "frame" in interactions, AMOGing other males, Neging, Freeze-outs/isolating behaviors etc..), a lot of them are associated with narcissism and even psychopathy. For its part Western culture rewards and promotes these traits, it's called Rugged Individualism and this is why a lot of people take to social media to promote this idealized version of themselves, yet at the same time this cult of the Self is alienating and creating anti-social people.

Fubu -fuck buddy

Not at all Neo. I was simply asking how N2 would react to a woman who is shouting at him and verbally abusing him. Since my reaction was to walk away, some noob who doesn't go out of the house and is NOT in any relationship with women called me passive-aggressive.

My behavior for those types of situation is certainly passive-aggressive. But in a work environment or a martial arts tournament, I highly doubt it if anybody will call me passive-aggressive. We have different roles to play in different types of interactions in human society.

The most grounded individuals are those who can adapt to every role society throws at them following established norms, social mores, laws and other protocols of acceptable behavior. Those who cannot follow simple rules like what this forum has are more than likely to get ostracized in the social circle they interact in by which they are violating its established norms.

_________________
Approach. Open. Escalate. Isolate

Here are my two essential rules on texting that will save you tons of time and money:

general-questions/topic137931.html

Stop barking at the moon hellhound.

Neo, I was basically talking about verbal abuse. I take it your current GF hasn't done that to you. That's great. I'm really trying to elicit a response out of you for how you personally deal with a woman who uses explosive verbal abuse to try and make her points.

Since I set terms up front that that won't be tolerated women make efforts not to do that. With your relationship style of 50-50 or 51-49 because I'm sure your balance is not totally equal. Since you know how to lead interactions. I think giving her that much power presents your women with more leeway to allow them to express themselves that way. So, have you had that happen, the verbal abuse, and if so: How have you dealt with it?

_________________
I am a hunter of human excellence. I seek out those individuals who break the norms
and demonstrate to all of us what’s really possible. I learn what those few
extraordinary individuals do that’s different from everybody else, and then emulate
them.

Ill poop on every male, who have "become" the narcissistic sociopath, who believe that this is the only way things work. If you can't show feelings(because YOU ARE AFRAID), then my friend, you are nothing. You are the beta of beta's.

PUA and relationship are 2 different things. In relationship, you will love each other for who you are. In PUA you will seduce, because you are not who you are.

Not sure I understand the %s or power dynamics....If I do something stupid I'd expect her to tell me and vice versa. Wont consider that a power thing or verbal abuse. For eg, my current gf has a grandpa who had a history of mental illness due to a tumor years ago. She had told me this before. One day she was showing me a post on fb where it seemed like she was joking about it to him. She wasn't, but I misinterpreted what she said as a joke, I laughed and made a stupid joke about him being crazy or something. She got offended and explained that it wasn't a joke. I apologized, understood that I was being stupid and moved on. I dont see it in terms of power, same way someone else could tell me something is a touch subject, I can understand that and be more sensitive. When I say communication, it's not about power. It's about the idea that if you're with someone they shouldnt be trying to hurt you. If someone does it by accident, you can explain your side, the person can understand and you know not to do it because it causes the other person pain.

For eg, let's say I meet you, and you're a short guy. We're hanging out getting a few beers laughing, making jokes, I make a joke about your height. Not to hurt you but just a joke. You tell me, man im kinda sensitive about my height. I'd say ok, my bad and know not to play like that.

You sort of danced around my question and focused your post on the power dynamics. I'll address what you said though. The power dynamics come from how in control you are in the relationship vs how much you comply to her. Like if we're standing in line at a movie theater and there is a movie she wants to see, and a movie I want to see. 9/10 we're going to watch the movie I want to see. This represent the 90% 10% figure I explained.

Places we go out to eat, etc etc. She can have input of course and if I like the idea I may roll with it, but that's different from me just doing something she wants to do against my will. Aka, compliance.

My question to you was if your girl friend verbally assaults you in private or in public how do you deal with the situation. I.e. "Neo, YOU ARE A FUCKING MORON. or, FUCK YOU, YOUR MOTHER IS A BITCH." things of that nature. I'm not talking about her just mentioning things that she has a problem with like a normal rational person. That's acceptable. Or jokes, I'm talking about outbursts aimed at outright disrespect and what not.

_________________
I am a hunter of human excellence. I seek out those individuals who break the norms
and demonstrate to all of us what’s really possible. I learn what those few
extraordinary individuals do that’s different from everybody else, and then emulate
them.

Why be 90/10? Maybe I'm a pussy but I go to stuff that I won't naturally choose to go to. Not forced into going to stuff, but alot of the time I'll do something I would never have chosen to go to. I find that's how you learn new things. There are movies, shows, restaurants and activities that my gf suggested that I had what I thought was a better choice yet I still went with it. Not to make her happy really, but to try something new. Some things I hated, many of those things I ended up enjoying alot. I'd hate it if we did things I chose 90% of the time.

To the verbal assault thing, never experienced that. That's from screening out irrational over emotional types. I don't accept that women are just these emotionally driven, child like creatures. They have minds, they have self control. Unless I've been caught fucking another girl or I murdered her family, that's an extreme response. But that goes back to what I've said in other threads. When you CHOOSE who your gf will be, make sure she's quality. And not that shes just hot, or smart or funny, that comes with looking for a certain level of emotional maturity. Emotional maturity means you CAN communicate with her and she can understand your point of view, and it means she isn't going to fly off the handle for petty shit or anger.

If it DID happen, I'd probably assess it. 6 months in, it's a red flag...I'd probably leave or maybe see if it was a one off. But I won't use a freeze out. My thoughts are, a relationship should be where you assess everyday whether this person is right for you. Not changing the person to be right for you. Too many people view them like jobs where they are holding on for dear life. If she doesn't like me, fine. If she doesn't respect me, fine. Let's both find people we like and respect.

I get where fudge is coming from. The city he lives in, the women are very forward, educated, head strong and can be blunt to the point of being mean(and single straight women outnumber single straight men 16-1 at last count). When dealing with women in that area, going in with a very dominant frame is the best way to go or they will put you through hell. I get his 90/10 stance.

_________________
mpuaforum.proboards.com