So not much has changed with the girl I've been meeting up with, life has gotten in the way of meeting up in the last few days. I don't see anything progressing with us, now I've had a week out of meeting her, so I need to tell her that, then it's up to her if she wants to stick around.

I went out last night, I had a party at my place, well a late housewarming then everyone went out after a few drinks, we went to a club in central London and I ended up getting a make out with a really hot blonde girl. I was planning to have a good time with my friends, but I'm glad I have being able to make approaches in my locker - it's something that I feel I'll never forget to be able to do while I'm out now. It was also quite nice to get the ego boost of her telling me I was a good kisser, it possible it could have gone further, but she went off with the 2 friends she was with to the smoking area I couldn't find her after that, I think they left.

Next plan, more daytime approaches, and trying to get a date with a current work colleague.

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My Journal is thoughts on life game and approaches: artful-roger-journal-vt148980.html

Don`t lose the eye on the ball, remember that you are here to learn from yourself so help a brother and give him the highlights. The more details you bring to the table, the more you`ll be able in a near future to understand what the problem was.

Glad you make out with this hot chick, but how did it happened? Did you do any particular move? Why did she told you you were a good kisser? Why didn`t you number closed for a day 2 and than a lay?

I believe those a some guidence questions we can follow to understand game a bit better.

Also, were you applying Chief`s guide to outer game? Kasabi`s guide? Your own guide?

Actually you're right about the level of detail that needs including. The reason it lacked was the amount of time I don't have right now, I'm working a full time job and I study 4 nights a week, I basically have no social life - but I need to do this now to support the financial sins of my youth.

Well what happened, I was dancing with 3 friends, noticed a girl checking me out once then on the second glance I waved and said hi (The club was so loud), she came over, we exchange a couple of questions. She was the odd one out of her group everyone was coupled up, she kept getting closer so I just went in for the kiss. The reason I was a good kisser? I guess I just put a lot of passion into it, like everything I do and I think that came across.

As far as the type of style or game I used, well it was my own really. But I attribute this more down to getting lucky or being in the right place at the right time (but I knew what to do). I didn't get a number or day 2, we didn't really chat long and her friends pulled her away after they saw us kissing, and I didn't see her after that to reengage.



...With the dating, Jeez... It's a bit of a mess right now, I'm still seeing that girl but I'm really interested in dating someone I work with, I don't what it is about her, but something really grabs me and I can't stop thinking about her. I don't see her at work that often but she always makes the effort to wave to me, but we do get the train home together and I really love those journey's talking to her (it's only been a week). She's older than me just turned 28, as I'm 23 I'm so scared she'll look down on me being young, I think she believes I'm older. But I really need to demonstrate to her that I like her, I believe this is far more effective than telling. So I will ask her out in some form, haven't felt like this for a girl in a long time, kind of miss it, kind of sick of it already.

Someone said this to me and I really agree, it also matches up with the 5 levels of love, trying to incorporate this aspect into my game: 3-cooked-5-different-ways-vt167905.html

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It`s actually great advice, but one for wich we need an important thing: time.

Sometimes you have only one shot at the person sitting next to you in the table. You miss it, kiss her goodbye for good.

If you manage to pull every time you are getting better, and will have more chances to cover all those 3 important bases, if not than I`d rather go for kino. Of course, I`m having a hard time doing so, but going all in on it.

I feel like I'm messing this up, I've had several opportunities to ask her out and I haven't managed it yet. I think it's a sinking ship now personally, I don't know why I'm finding it so hard.

In the morning it was promising, I spoke to her and we were talking about the weekend and drinking alcohol was the topic we were sharing stories of nights out, and I was like we'll have to go out drinking together at somepoint and she said something along the lines of "yeah sounds good fun." A very non-descript meet up that is more friend like, than man to women like.

We were on a commute back from work, and we were talking about favourite food and meals, we were talking about sushi as she loves sushi, I brought up Wagamama's because I was sure they sell it there (still don't know if I'm right to be honest) anyway it came to the point in the conversation where I should have just aimed at saying "let's go this wednesday" I was even conscious of it, but I didn't say it I just let it slide and another conversation began...

I did actually semi ask her out on friday last week, I said let's go to a pub get that friday feeling going, but she said I had quite a lot of wine last night, so I'm not really up for it.

Why is this so hard for me, fucks sake I've done this so many times before and got rejected so many time before.

This kind of brings me onto my next point, I actually don't why I don't have a girlfriend or anyone I'm really interested in. I'm not ugly but I dress well after investing in my style, I'm in good shape and I'm a kind, outgoing person. There's something doing slightly wrong and I don't what it is yet. I think it's desire I don't show enough desire for a women, that really get's them turned on.

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I actually asked her out for a drink on Friday for sometime next week, she's away for the weekend and while we were commuting back, I asked her out (in my opinion) the worst way possible. It didn't flow from any conversation, it was a bit of out of nowhere and I could feel my voice trembling a bit, terrible really. Anyway she was a bit taken aback and saying "erm, uh, I don't know" so I just replied, "look don't tell me now, just think about it, enjoy your weekend focus on that, and just tell me next week, I'm not gonna act weird if you say no" which she laughed. It's good because it parts my cards on the table, and shows my intent, the problem is if she says no I honestly believe it's not a no, it's a "not yet" - I do have this confidence in myself that I am a good partner, it's just I need to demonstrate that a bit, although I will also pursue other options I will try to not get hung up on her.

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I received the advice of Hobbit through some PM's and Kasabi in Bond's thread this week, I sought this advice because I found both of their posts insightful in the "#3 cooked 5 different ways" thread, and I wanted to learn more and accomplish it.

So this girl I've been writing about, I now have her number and we're going out for drinks. How did I make this work? Simple really, getting her comfortable with me and pretending I've always known her i.e. we've been together 2 years, kind of talk. We commute together at the moment, so I just thought how would I have spoken to my ex of 2 years while on a train and where would I sit and how? and I just did this. What did this sound like well I'll quote 2 parts of hobbit's PM which I really liked.
This felt so much better, because I was just me and I wasn't trying to be overly gamey, (which was my serious error last week) I was just patient and allowed something to crop up that we could do together. She told me of a job offer she had which she was relieved about, and she would start this monday coming or the week after and she wasn't sure which. So I told her great and why she should take it then I said "well, we're gonna have to do some leaving drinks" she agreed and seemed excited for it.

We did a little more fluff talk about our weekends coming up and she was really intrigued in what I was up to this weekend, asking me to take pictures of what I was up to and show her, which was a nice sign. Then I realised she may not be in Monday so acted accordingly "since you might not be in Monday let me give you my number, and text me if you're in or not after your phonecall about the new job." She then phoned my phone so I have her number now, and then we said goodbye and went off on our ways. A little thing that really did it for me, and actually made me feel great was just after she gave me her number and we started walking she went up on her toes in a really cute way that suggested she was excited - maybe I'm reading into that too much, yeah...I probably am. It made me feel good, allow me that.

I'd like to thank Kasabi and Hobbit for their advice, as this scenario wouldn't have happened with out their input.


Thoughts:
- The semantics aren't in place for a "date" technically but the point is all I need to is to get her out and have fun, I have faith in myself to handle this part on my own.
- The pressure of not commuting together has probably been a beneficial factor in her agreeing to go out with me, I guess because 1. she realises she might not see me anymore 2. There's no worry if it doesn't work out between we'll be forced to sit on a train in each other's company. (probably reading too much into this again, I reckon it has an effect though).

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Ain't Hobbit a sweetheart? ...

Just to add. . . if you're going to give the five language thing a serious look, it's worth taking a minute to classify all the expressions of love above. Very simple. The reason for this is by classifying, you will be able to figure out her language(s). The one that turns her on is the one that you pour on the most.

Also, Hobbit is much more mature and self aware than I ever was at his age. But in my biased view, there is no such thing as a FWB. She is either your girlfriend or she want to be. The only thing that the FWB frame/promise/contract gains you is that when they are slobbering and crying later on, you get to pull the contract card. "Woh, woh. . . but we knew we were FWB from the very beginning! Come on. . . I told you all of this from the very beginning!" Then you convince her that she is essentially an idiot with a bad memory and you send her on her way. Just my own twisted opinion. . . *The only times when I've seen this dynamic NOT play out is when the relationship is between a younger guy and an older girl. . . or couples of the same age but the male is clearly not financially ready for a relationship. You can call them gold diggers if you like but if you had a choice,(women endowed with outer beauty definitely have choices) would you like your kid to grow up in the ghetto or would you like your kid to have the best things in life? Strong education, positive psychological, physical, emotional childhoods, etc. . . This dynamic is just a fact of life.

From the few times I've been to Europe, I've formed a belief that Europeans tend to flirt a lot. Maybe this is just a stereotype, I don't know. On the other hand, Americans tend to say nothing, stare, stare, stare, pounce a few "pick up lines", then disappear out of the bar to F. It's not that this type of interaction works or it doesn't work. . . it's just that comfortable, well adjusted people do not behave this way in any other aspects of our lives. We do not usually behave this way with our family, friends, strangers on the street, colleagues . . .not any one.

Treating people as if you've known them for a long while is a good principle for interacting with anybody you ever meet. If you keep this mindset, things always tend to work out better. You could go to a job interview, stay silent, then "pounce" your answers in abstract sentences . . or you could make it seems as if you've worked there for 2 years already; when given a problem to solve, you could ask questions about a few employees' specific positions by name and suggest solutions as if this is a real situation that could be solved by the people who already work there. . . you included. What sounds better, "I would do this, I would do that. Then the designer would need to follow through and make sure everything was up to specs. . ." Or, "Pam, (the designer) with a project like this I'd probably to pick your brain a lot to get things right but I'm a fast learner. I'll definitely bug you less on the second project. . . "

In regards to "]\applying these principles to pick up, the most important thing to remember is that there is no set order of development. The premise is that you've already known this girl for 2 years. What type of chronological order can come about with a girl you've dated and lived with for 2 years? Some days are great and you jive well and you have great sex. Other times, you fight and you don't want to see her face. Either way, if you are planning a day out with her, you'll try to plan for something special.

Date ideas?, how do you plan for something "special" for a girl you've been with 2 years? First, here's what you don't do. You don't throw a ton of money at some random 'cliche' crap and hope that it will impress her enough to spread her legs. Remember. . . sex is already built into the formula. If you want her to have a great time, then ask her what exactly is a great time for her. . . This is when a little tact comes into play. If you ASK HER DIRECTLY, "What do you want, what do you like?" . . . she will reply, "Whatever... I'm good with anything.... " - this is a lie. Women do not function on a logical wavelength. Her pleasure comes from her MAN figuring shit out and taking care of her. (Yeah, not exactly politically correct)

So ^this is why during a conversation, whether you're after a ONS or looking for a wife. . . you are going through a spectrum of topics to figure out her thing. . . vacations, restaurants, sports, even politics. . . and once you NAIL her shit. . . then you've got it. It does not matter if you will never ever take her to some fancy restaurant she seems to like. All that matters is that you use her dynamics to create a connection; you use it for a future reference. . . and you use her "taste" to suggest something fun just in case you go out for a date. (Even if you don't go out for a date. . . these "connections" will get a girl sucking your cock. Hey, I didn't create these realities. . . I just follow them)

Do not search for acceptance. Instead, create excitement.

In relation to this, I just want her to trust me I can show her a good time. I know I personally can, it's just I want her to feel it too.

Well her language is acts of service and a small bit of words of affirmation.
The reason I know this, just through when I helped her with her studies her facial expression and eye contact was completely different after in the morning I pulled out a data stick with a piece of software on what she was after. And when she said she was leaving, I said "well it's a shame you're not sticking around" her reaction totally changed and she was hanging on every word I had to say after, also when I notice something about her and comment on it she responds well e.g. her bag, jumper shoes and coat were all a mix of black and cream, so I asked "did you coordinate your outfit on purpose?" knowing full well she hadn't.

I've got her a leaving card and it's a mix of gesture and words. The mindset I'm trying to have is just enjoying giving rather than resent it if it doesn't work out, I find this quite hard in all honesty - this makes me sound terrible, but for some reason I have it in my head that the 5 love languages will work. The way I'm trying to counteract this is by doing a lot of nice things for people all the time.

What I know about her, She's the older sister but still loves to party type, vacations - Sri Lanka, she's talked about that as her next chosen holiday, food - sushi I got this info out of her in the last 2 weeks, political - probably a slight liberalist as she worked in Kuwait for a year which is a strict muslim country.

So with these things in mind, a special night out would be grab some sushi somewhere or if even possible, food from a Sri Lankan restaurant, (all though sushi is a safer choice form her words), do a bit of bar hopping before going onto a final place to party.
This phrase just sums up my whole goings on with this chick, I must be so all over the place showing interest in her, but not actually doing anything about it. I'm actually so bad at asking girls out, it's like I don't even like my own ideas, so why should she? I don't where this anxiety has come from. I can't think of anything better than sitting in a bar with her having a chat, I have a cool and calm demeanour - but it's not about me is it? Quality time is my love language.

Some things I want to say to her but I don't have the guts:
- I love your brown eyes
- (In relation to her new job) Congratulations and all, but aim a little bit higher, you have the capabilities but you don't believe in yourself that you're good enough.
- You look even better with your hair tied back.
- (if she's not keen on dating me) Give me a chance, I can show you we're a good match.

As you said in Bond's thread Kasabi I'm so worried about putting myself out there, making friends pissing and pissing people off. Well at least I've got nothing left to lose on Friday.




EDIT: This journal has become a bit of an emotional dumping ground of late which isn't particularly helpful or getting me anywhere, it feels good to not carry it around any more - but it's time to be a bit more practical and start suggesting ways for improvement for myself.

New mindset with this girl: "of course we're going out this Friday, we need to celebrate your new job. Even though you have that meeting with your new work colleagues we'll meet up later on - I can't wait to hear all about it."

mindset in relation to will she/won't she cancel anxieties playing on my mind: "look you concentrate on the meeting for friday, I'll just plan it to make sure we have a good time when you're free afterwards."

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I think I`m getting a clue with you.

First things first: there is absolutely NOTHING WRONG with making a few pages of your journal emotional, on the contrary, I believe it`s a sign of improvement.

And second: While I was reading the downside part of your last post it was actually ironic to find the very same answer to your problem in your advice to this girl; and I quote you: " Congratulations and all, but aim a little bit higher, you have the capabilities but you don't believe in yourself that you're good enough."

Pay special attention to you giving advice to others. Now pay even more attention to you giving advice to yourself.
No pay attentio to you trying to actually apply that advice in your life.

It`s a HARD BITCH, that`s what it is. I know because that`s how you and I connect. Kasabi nailed it once again; you and I are two scarry little bitches putting ourselves out there. And let me confess one thing: I now believe that my main flaw at pick up is that I`m way too scared to put myself out there for real with a real woman.

This means the following: TONS of posts in my thread describing night outs that are wasted time, simply because I wasn`t learning shit. I wasn`t paying attention, not living the moment. I was way too defensive inside my own shell, and the sad part of it all is that women can tell.

This is why most pua`s recommend you to solve your inner game first and then seeing women fall at your feet after; it`s as if you were a puzzle, and when you put the pieces together things run as a breeze.

Solve yourself, then see the world solve itself in front of you.

Next time you are with her there is only one question you should ask yourself: am I paying attention?

Yes while I agree my point, was if I don't suggest ways to improve for next time I'll keep making the same mistakes over and over.
Can you expand a little here please bond, on how I should aim higher - I think you're seeing something I'm not at the moment. any input would be greatly welcomed.
To be honest, I'm so stressed right now. I don't think life has ever gotten me to feel this bad - no wonder this girls finding it so hard to be attracted to me, I can barely find the confidence to believe in myself let alone her. I wave in and out of spells of feeling good when I'm around her, it must be so confusing for her. I don't know what the solution is right now, but I need to get on top of this stress some how, as it will run me down and I will get ill, something I can't afford.

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First off, that 5 languages of love thing is a great idea but it's not everything. Get some ideas from it, have some awareness for it, but let's get beyond it and start living.
If you have trouble saying ^this, it's because ^this is not who you are. (at least for that moment) Maybe you have this idea that you need to show her that your feelings for her are serious. Maybe you feel a need to differentiate yourself from flaky jokers out there. There could be a hundred different reasons but who cares? If these words do not slip out of your tongue, it's because you don't own it. Go to a coffee shop and see how people interact. Some people ask nicely, "Ehm, can I have a _____ please?" Some are simple, "Medium coffee." Some stand there and chat, chat, chat and ask what he/she should get. You have to bet that if you were to follow one person around all day long, that is EXACTLY who he/she will be with everybody else the rest of the day.

You have to figure out a way to express "I love your brown eyes," in your own way. Ideas? Here's a few from the top of my head:
1. Stare, stare, stare into her eyes until she almost gets uncomfortable... then you throw a fat smile and just sigh.
2. Stare at her tits for a while, until she goes, "WTF", then you smile and go, "You have beautiful.... eyes." - I read this one in this forum before.
3. They say beauty is in the inside... but outer beauty is nice to stare at.
4. I don't always stare at beautiful ladies but when I do, I drool... sometimes.
5. Is your dad a thief? Oh, you heard that one. Ehm, They say the eyes are the mirror to the soul... shoot, I forgot the punchline. OK, let me try, your eyes are as sparkly as ice cold coke. Eh? How about that one? But I really, really love coke.

*Not suggesting if any of these things is a fit. . . just trying to show that you can express your thoughts in many different ways. Find yours. . . own it.
I know you mean well but how 'exciting' is criticism? . . .constructive or otherwise? There is nothing accomplished with this. If you are getting nervous about saying this, it's because you know it won't end well.
Same as the brown eye thing. . . 100 different ways to express it. Find your way. Own it.
Absolutely not. Never, ever beg for a relationship. In fact, you don't even ask for one. You just LIVE the relationship. You don't beg your girlfriend of 2 years for a relationship, you don't ask for a relationship, you don't pry to figure out, "hey, we're going to have a relationship right?" - Really? Can you really show her that you're a good match? Then, why haven't you done it yet? You mean, she hasn't given you chances yet? You spent time with her haven't you? What are you waiting for? Is SEX the only thing that creates a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship in your mind? You can't verbally compliment her eyes in a simple way, a funny way, through your behavior, or even a serious way... and you are still really that confident that you can show her that you're a 'good match'?

You seem to agree that the idea of "treating her as if she is already my girlfriend" is a good idea but you don't own it. You don't believe it. (This is that "might not be able to fake it" part) But you've at least got to give it an honest effort. You're "chasing" and actually even thinking about BEGGING for a relationship but you haven't even asked her out yet. You haven't excited her yet. You haven't jived with her yet. I realize that this won't come easy for all but when you figure this out, you could meet a girl for 20 minutes and boom, that's it. That's all it takes. There will be some more time, figuring each other out but she's already made up her mind, "This guy, I could definitely fuck. . ." And when you do this, you'll figure out those milestones. You'll figure out, "OK, she's definitely comfortable with me." "Alright, she wants to suck face." etc . . .

Simplify. Remove EVERYTHING that has nothing to do with pick up. Begging, thoughts of begging. . . Criticism, etc... Just focus on those 2 things. 1. Trust. 2. Excitement. (for a real life event) That's all.

Oh, and that last advice for "no criticism" is not to be confused with the "goofy advice guy act", which can be hilarious. "Great, awesome. Let me give you some advice. Everybody loves popcorn. See, you get to the office, start popping. Pop it baby. Pop, pop, pop. Then you go around and offer it up. Once every top of the hour, hmm. .. start at 9, add the 30 minutes for lunch, carry the 2, multiply by a factor of average of 10 unpopped kernels, You're looking at 7, no... 8 bags a day sister. Promotion, 2 weeks, tops.

Kasabi, Hobbit, and Bond. I did my best with this girl I work with, we're going out monday or tuesday night possibly, I still have this idea in mind that she will cancel - there's not much I can do. She went back to her hometown on the train on Friday night about 5/6hrs journey, she received a phone call from her mum as she's not in a good way so she went down to spend the weekend with her (legitimate as I was with her when she got the call).

Anyway I sold her the night out, joked around about staying out until late. Going to peepshows, and drinking in some cool bars with DJs, cocktails, happy hours. She agreed, and as she's far away right now she said she'd text me when she's back, if she does or not is another thing. I guess I will send her something Monday afternoon, if she doesn't.

Anyway some good news:

Saturday 26th Oct

So last night I managed to pull and have a one night stand. I was just out with my flat mate, we met up with some people he knows, they were good fun and we had a really good time, drunk too much, danced too much and went back to ours to drink some more.

So once we were back at mine, everyone was having a good time and knocking back drinks, then suddenly everyone went to bed and it was just me and this girl. So I said "let's drink some more in my room", (people were sleeping in the lounge). Then it just happened, we sat on the bed started kissing and then we got in. She said to me mid way through, I'm not "having sex with you" so I just replied "Fair enough," then we stopped kissing laid back on the bed and started chatting for 5-10 minutes. Then we I just made my move again, this time there was no resistance, and it just happened.

I have her number, will I see her again? I don't know, I would be open to it - she was good fun, and I enjoyed being with her. It was a couple of friends that set us up and I have to say normally under such expectations I would have been pressured but last night I handled that pressure and performed. This is some real progress for me.

But right now I feel really needy for her, maybe it's the tiredness but all I wanted to do was lay in bed all day and just hug, when I woke up she was gone and went to sleep on the sofa I assume because 3 of her friends stayed round my SPAM and mine, probably something to do with social pressure? I don't know, and I don't think I will find out.

Also I know that my feeling of neediness for her is now actually a craving for something more. Yeah I enjoyed sex, but really - I wanted to enjoy was holding her and kissing her in bed, not necessarily her but someone I can be close with. This experience has brought out some real emotions in me, which is good...but it hurts a bit today, or maybe that's the hangover?

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I`m glad you`ve got a one night stand that allowed you to perform and gave you confidence in you. That`s a must, you have to experience that.

But you give off the impresion of actually looking out there for a long term relationship, you want something emotional out of your lays and that`s perfectly fine. God knows I want it too.

Two questions comes to my mind in regards to this: 1. Have you made your list of traits you are looking for in a woman? (See Chief`s guide to outer game for more info) In regards of women, you must state the traits you like about her other than being cute. Once you find a girl that fits by asking her indirectly about those traits, and you had sex with her and enjoyed her company; you know that`s a keeper.

2. What is your belief around abundance mentality?

I once entered the chatroom and talked a bit with Chief; the man told me that I needed to experience abundance before I went on a long term relationship.
The deal is to understand a know women better, so you can choose out of the pool the one that fits you the best. It`s a choice in pick up, not a solution fallen from heaven when you enter a long term relationship.
I share this man`s point of view.

Yeah I am out for an LTR now, it's just taken me this long to admit it I guess, probably because it's a little bit anti PUA. I'm not looking to get shackled for life, but just regularly meet and interact with the same girl would be nice. I can see my game leaning towards dating someone and really getting to know them before deciding whether I want to be in a relationship, rather than meeting multiple girls.

I have read that and I do have some important traits I look for:
Open-minded/Adventurous, good sense of humour, caring and unselfish, passionate about something

Yes I see his point and it makes a lot of sense. Since I was in a LTR for 2 years, I kind of learned a lot of what I like and didn't like in a relationship in that period, I'm pretty ready to give a second go now, I mean I just know when I like someone now, with the help of the traits above.

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