I think the oppposite is true....

Take all your bullshit routines, DHV stories, openers, , C&F stuff into the trash , concentrate on bodylanguage / screening first ; use the power of the moment , which means : Be yourself, be spontaneous, be confident in expressing what your desires are.

Trust me, if the latter case is no problem for you, your results will be devastating

See, I´ve been into this PU stuff before, just using indirect shitty lines and routines, bla bla. It didnt get me anywhere - its a fake of yourself.
If you think you can play the game, be aware that women - in the end - will play it better and you will get frustrated very easy.

Better go out regularly and focus on your screening skills first by just observing guys in clubs - what they do wrong - followed by learning to observe horny girls.

And then go for improving your confidence.
BadBoy and Alan Currie are your best friends when it comes to this,


Just my thoughts about becoming a Natural,

Baxxter

Why the hell would you take 2 steps back? Getting good with girls is all about becoming the best you, how can you acting like someone else be the best you?

I absolute just hate Canned, routines, if you do natural right, you learn confidence, attraction, elevation(courtship process).

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Just another guy from back in the day.

Blogging again living life: http://www.Scienceofnaturalgame.com

First of all guys ha ha i never said dont take the route to being a natural yes textbook game is complicated and can confuse a person like i said IT WORKS DIFFERENTLY for all of us look at some of the most successful pua out there all started with text book calibrated themselves picked out the good threw out the bad made it a part of themselves and then went to being naturals did they or not people who are comfortable with natural game of the bat should follow it and not textbook since that's what works for them i myself prefer being a natural but started with textbook and textbook increases day game chances much more
What happens is in the beginning you are pretending so while using textbook game strengthen your inner game it will amplify your alpha development!!!!

No, it is ridiculous to do such a thing. If you are going to end up doing 100 approaches learning to act like someone else how on earth can that help you? When a lot of folks learn routines they don't actually gain confidence, they gain confidence in a system. So when they try and be themselves around a fly girl they want to move forward with they have nothing to say, their routines have to end somewhere and they have no clue how to act.

A guy can approach 100 girls being himself and learn more about himself and others in the process then how she reacts to a line over and over again. It takes balls and confidence to learn to be yourself, and it is important to do it. Don't cop out.

Best opener ever: "Hi I just wanted to introduce myself, my name is ___________." A smile, palm up hand shake(long hand shake), and a slightly bent over bowing torso, that is the best opener I've ever come across, it's charming, it's bold, and no one else has the balls to do it. Nothing beats it, you walk up with confidence and deliver that line and you will at very worst get a small weak conversation going.

Why not learn how to have an actual conversation? Why learn to have the same conversation over and over again? Why not learn the actual process of hooking up, and know how and when to elevate now? Learn to respond to women correctly, learn their little quirks, and you will know so much more about how to attract and impress women.

Your confidence should not and can not be based on you hooking up with girls. It is built on your self love, your direction in life, and personal happiness. Hooking up with girls acting like someone else, using someone else's lines does not help one bit. You can not build true confidence off routines, you end up with confidence in a system. Style proved it at the end of his book The Game, he went through all that process learning that and then realized by the end it didn't even attract the type of girl he wanted. In fact it sounded like by the end the only time he had confidence was when he was his pseudo personality. That is definitely wrong, you should be completely confident in who you are.

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Just another guy from back in the day.

Blogging again living life: http://www.Scienceofnaturalgame.com

Walk up to a mixed 4 set and use that. Canned openers and basic routines are perfect for learning and they become part of you. I can deliver a canned opener and think about my next move while my lips are talking. There's no awkward silence, and I can come off as very fun and interesting using basic routines. I don't know why you guys are so against canned openers.

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My mPUA pickup journal: mpua-glades-log-of-pick-up-and-life-vt99032.html

If you can't use that line on a 4 set then you lack confidence, pretty simple, you need to hide behind a line to open. Show them you are a confident you and it is easy. How many men do you think have the balls to walk up and straight up introduce themselves with confidence? Not many, and certainly not that forward about it. If you need an excuse other then the fact that you want to introduce yourself you just show a lack of confidence.

I know what I want, if I walk up to a girl and introduce myself, my intentions aren't necessarily to sleep with the girl, but if I'm attracted I'm not at all scared to show her. My confidence shows that I'm not just another minion there to hit on her. I don't have to "give up the power" when I show I'm attracted. I walk up with the attitude of your cute, but so are the three other girls I've been kicking it with.

I'm against canned openers for multiple reasons. One reason is if I happen to meet my wife one day, I don't want it to be as if I said the same line to every single other woman I've met. I don't always start with that introduction, but if I want to meet someone that is what I use. The next reason is what if some other tool was using some sort of similar line, how good does it look when you are the second or third person asking that question? Next I don't understand why you would ever want to take away the spontaneousness of this moment, why can't you just start talking?

Conversations are 2 ways, if you are busy trying to think up your next statement then you aren't participating in the conversation. Yet another thing I hate about canned openers. It's ridiculous to not to learn how to have a conversation.

Awkward silence, that is funny, that shows more about you then them. You make the moment awkward, nobody else does. When we say something about a situation, it is how we feel about a situation. You feel awkward not the silence. Yet another reason you should be gaining confidence instead of copying other people.

Sorry but the way I see it you can use a routine to seem fun and interesting or you can actually become fun and interesting. I will stick with actually being fun and interesting. You can act like someone else who is fun and interesting.

To me this community is about bettering yourself, and you can't do that if you aren't willing to be yourself. Perhaps my take is incorrect but that is how I feel it.

_________________
Just another guy from back in the day.

Blogging again living life: http://www.Scienceofnaturalgame.com

Ok lets do a small experiment how many of you guys here started with canned stuff before natural game despite getting little sucess

I think it depends what you mean by "natural" - some of the stuff on here gets a bit too technical, and sort of devalues the true meaning of natural in my mind.

I started out not using canned openers - not because I had anything against them, just because I preferred the natural way. Now I mix it up a bit, depending on the situation and, most importantly, what sort of mood I'm in, but still don't use them a lot.

Personally, I do think that natural first is the best way to go about it. If I had to give advice to a new member on here - I'd say go and read the "body language" section, the "building an attractive lifestyle" section and the "social shyness and anxiety" section. Learn from those, make yourself a better all round person, as said above, learn how to have a conversation with a girl (just an ordinary conversation!), build up your confidence in all aspects of your life, learn how to talk to random strangers, and when you're good at all those things, then you can bring in some of the more routine-y stuff to enhance your game even further.

Although, one thing I'll add to that, is that if you're maybe really socially awkward or anxious, then canned can be good to sort of relieve the pressure from you slightly. If you're going to get tongue tied as soon as you talk to a female, then having a canned opener can take your mind of WHAT you're going to say and actually just get you talking. So a bit of a combination is probably the best way forward really.

I'm sure it works for you, but saying no one else has the balls to do it is just wrong. I've seen it used A LOT...hell, it used to be my opener.

A strong, indirect opener is far superior, in my experience. The key is how the opener is delivered. I approach with nonthreatening body language and deliver the opener (my own origional canned) with absolute authroity as if we're already old friends. I expect the hook, and I usually get it. Introductions usually take place 1-2 minutes into the set.

I'm coming from a different place though, as I'm moving from being a decently sucessful natural to incorporating more technical PU stuff.

At the end of the day, ANY opener is better than NO opener. I don't think any one way works for everybody.

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Indulgence not compulsion.

Don't forget about the confidence(the paragraph before), most guys even those who approach girls don't have an aura of confidence, a presence.

I would have to say submissive body language is non-threatening, in fact it is the root of non-threatening. Submissive being palm up, slightly lowered torso and head, smile, all submissive(non-threatening).

My Body Language is very important through out the interaction, look at my signature to see how important I consider it. I start with a charming, confident, submissive(adds a little humility to you), behavior involving strong eye contact and extended touch(long hand shake). You talked about how important delivery is, then ignored two key aspects of mine. I wouldn't have described those other parts if it weren't so important to my opener.

You have an equation: Confidence + Body Language + Introduction = My Opener
You ignore the body language you have confidence and introduce yourself but seem aggressive it isn't the same nor is it charming. If you have Body Language and introduction but no confidence then you don't have a presence to capture the woman. You need all three elements.

Indirect openers work, but for those who carry a confident presence it is a waste. A confident person doesn't need an EXCUSE to talk to a girl he is attracted to. I don't need an excuse, I am attracted I have no need to say so can I get your opinion, or what is or whatever else you can come up with. I can carry and start a conversation, I can introduce myself. I can do whatever, that is the power of true confidence.

It is my confidence that never gives up the "power" in the attraction balance, after all the person who cares least owns the interaction. Just because I'm attracted to a girl doesn't mean she holds anything over me. That is the mistake most guys make, when they state their attraction, they put them above them and care more, SPAM the "power" in the attraction process.

I was never a natural when it came to elevation, I have always been a natural when it comes to building attraction. That is why I took a look(albeit short one) at canned and routines and realized it was taking me away from who I am. I don't want to be like anyone else, I love being me. Why the hell would I ever hide myself behind something like a nick name or canned line? That wouldn't be me. If you want to hide behind a nick name or canned line that wouldn't be you(though in your case at least it is your own line).

That said, these days I never miss a hook. I can read body language so well that I can adjust and comment on their present mindset and emotion and boom I have a full blown conversation. Say what you want about usually getting a hook try never missing. I've walked up to girls with boyfriends not knowing guess what, still got a hook. In fact with one girl flirted with me all night, her boyfriend would walk up and pull her away from me, it was all innocent I even joked that her boyfriend "would kick my ass" and she should stop talking to me. I did this at a booth full of men with 2 girls. So I'm just going to say it works, and it works well.

Indirect has it's selling points no doubt about it, most guys can't gauge a girl properly enough to know where to stop or start. So it is easier to fly in under the radar, that said easier isn't always better. Most difficult things are worth the effort, this is one of them.

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Just another guy from back in the day.

Blogging again living life: http://www.Scienceofnaturalgame.com

You make sense and I think we're more similar than we initially seem. An opener is just a conversation starter, right? So, I deliver mine before I deliver my name. You don't, but I assume conversation follows introduction...do you ever know what you're going to say before you say it? If so, it meets a loose definition of canned.

I'm splitting hairs here just to make a point that sometimes it's a matter of samantics. Body language is important. If you LEARN effective body language, can it be called natural? If you do it enough that it happens without conscious thought, then yes. My opens may be "canned" but they are also natural. Does that make sense?

My open changes, and is usually something that my friends and I are actually talking about at that given time. If I'm alone, or experiencing a brain fart, a good canned open in my pocket gives me no excuse for not approaching. I have a conversation all gift wrapped and ready.

ta-may-toe/toe-mah-toe.

"Indirect has it's selling points no doubt about it, most guys can't gauge a girl properly enough to know where to stop or start. So it is easier to fly in under the radar"

I agree with that point 100%. Indirect pays off when you know when to shift gears.

_________________
Indulgence not compulsion.