I also drink something called "Woodchuck" -- it's a fermented apple cider - same booze content as beer but not a malternative like Uncle Mikes or Smirnoff Ice it's like Strongbow or Hornsbys. Great stuff and as it is different without being flaming - mild peacocking. Women tend to ask me what it is, I explain and then DHV by telling them the bar stocks it special for me. (they order 2 cases every 2 weeks or so and I drink all of about 2 or 3 bottles out of those cases).

Wouldn't you know it - they were out last night too - had to go to the Goose.

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duck
I got to get into this dude's pelt and crawl around for a few days. Who's the gopher's ally? His friends. The harmless squirrel and the friendly rabbit.

I realise this thread is old but for anyone reading through it in order to formulate an opinion, I wanted to throw my 2 cents in:

If you meet a girl in a club/bar then sure, don't just be buying her drinks without receiving any in return. Ask her to get the first round, then you can get the next. Be charming about it, I just use the classic line of "I only buy drinks for people I know, so why don't you get the first round and we can chat & get to know each other a little bit, then I'll get the next round". As long as you say this playfully, it works great.

On the other hand, if you ask a girl out on a date and you decide to take her to a restaurant for lunch/dinner, then you should pay for the meal without making a big deal of it. If she offers to pay for her half, charmingly refuse ("let this one be my treat, after all I invited you") and say she can buy you a drink or get the next meal instead. In my experience, this gives the best results because:

- It puts her in the frame of mind that you two shall be spending more time together / going on more dates in the future
- You've shown her that you're a generous guy who doesn't make a big deal out of spending money. Girls really *really* don't like guys who are tight with their money, I cannot emphasise this enough, it's a huge turn-off to most. I understand many of you are students or cannot afford to treat women to lavish meals, but in such cases, you can pick a more inexpensive eatery. You don't need to be eating caviar and lobster at a gourmet restaurant to have a great date, just pick a cosy, inexpensive bistro or cafe instead.
- If she's been having a good time up until this point, she'll now suggest you go somewhere else for some drinks/coffee as her treat, which allows you to extend the date, bounce to another venue and continue spending time together.

By the way, when the bill arrives, I always observe whether or not the girl offers to contribute. I've found that girls who don't even make a token effort to reach for their purse tend to be materialistic. There are many women out there trying to wrangle free meals from guys and this is a good filter test for those. If ever a girl just sits there and doesn't say anything or make an attempt to contribute to the bill as if it's her God given right to be treated to this meal by me, I would still pay but never call her again. Time to move on and find someone less selfish.

Hope this helps.

Well I dont really go on dinner dates, but I am in a few days, so I think I would just offer to pay, saying something to the lines of what ^ said..."I am the one that offered to take you out, at least let me cover this one "

Every girl is different though, its hard to read for me, which is another reason I sorta avoid dinner dates, so much more fun things than avoiding talking by stuffing your face, or avoiding KINO by sitting across from her...

If you feel like you need to pay and you don't want her to think of you as AFC, try to incorporate a game into it. Something along the lines of "if you win, I pay, if I win, you pay." Then you play the game, make it as fun / lighthearted as possible because if you seem too serious about it then you'll just come off looking like a douche.

Some games that I play are:

1. Thumb wars
- Good kino, very fun, you can intentionally lose if you want to pay
2. A,B,C Game
- This one is if you want to win / tease her at the same time. Ask her to think of as many words that don't have A,B,or C in them. She'll most likely take a lot of time thinking and then will not do well. When it is your turn, you literally start to count "1, 2, 3, 4, 5...etc etc." You win. You tease her correctly, she will be a but irked that you cheated. Be playful, be fun and this always works.
- You can even say, since I cheated, I guess I'll pay if you need to. I don't recommend it, but you can.


I have a few others that I like to do but they are more situational and more spur of the moment type deal.

I hope this helps. Paying isn't bad. I pay a lot of the time because I have the money to spend. If the bill comes, I immediately take it and pay. It shows that I am the leader. If you are intending on paying however, have your credit card ready when the server comes with the bill and immediately give it to him/her. If you are paying cash, try to do this as fast as possible. Show that you are alpha and are deliberately paying.

I never found this a bad thing and it never was pattern forming. I went out with one girl and paid for the drinks, the next time she paid. I was never the only always paying.

There's no need to avoid dinner dates just because they make kino difficult. Sharing a meal is an age-old tradition human beings have used to get to know each other and establish trust and comfort and that's basically the aim of the dinner date. If she shows up to the date, you've obviously already generated attraction otherwise she wouldn't have come. So now, here's your chance to build trust and comfort, by showing her you're interested in her personality and not just her good looks. Don't let her lose attraction during the meal though, typically I do this by picking fun and interesting conversation subjects, entertaining stories, jokes and anecdotes. Avoid dropping down to interview-style everyday questions which come across as boring (e.g. what do you do for a living, how long have you been doing it, do you like it, etc.).

If you can nail the dinner, you'll have no problem suggesting you bounce somewhere else for a drink or coffee afterwards. In fact, she may even suggest that herself. Aside from being a huge IOI, that's your opportunity for when you can kino escalate.

Well put my friend!