there is a fine line between chasing a girl and being overbearing to the point of turning her off completely. I know the game is to be the prize and have her want you but i can't scenarios for that to happen. Also the goal here is LTR (long-term-relationship) not lay so I want her to know I'm serious. am weary if i come on too strong she will loose interest or get creeped out and if i play it cool than i'm screwed also. she's out of town for 4 weeks and i really want to pursue her (even fly out to where she is if on my own excuse if need be).

I'm not into creeping out chicks or stalking etc so I don't even want to create the remotest impression of that. maybe i'm over-reacting. but how does one playfully pursue but make it seem that you are really into her without going overboard. read all the books. not sure how to do this. esp for a long distance thing.

No . . . there is no LINE. You seem to know the fundamentals of the game but the way you pose your question leads me to believe that you're still in denial.

The AFC believes that a pick up begins by "demonstrating" their interest in a girl. She then either complies (success) or doesn't comply (failure). In high school, if you ask a girl to a dance (demonstrate interest), and she shoots you down (non-compliance) it feels bad because nobody feels good about being denied for something you ask for . . . nicely . . .

So what does the AFC do? He asks over and over again. . . then he begs over and over again. . .

This is absolutely NOT what pick up is about. There is no rambling. There is no useless chatter. There is no "asking" for her hand. There is no statement of "interest". You don't "ask" for her love.

Instead, everything you say or do should cyclically go through points that spark attraction in her heart over, over, and over again. The point of pick up is to make it IMPOSSIBLE for hb's to not fall in love with you. You never "asked" for anything so there's really never any risk for "getting shot down".

You haven't given us any details so there's no way to be specific but there are some important aspects to remember:

1. Dude, are you nuts? You DO NOT fly out anywhere wasting money and time for a chick you hardly even know. You've read all those books but it seems you skipped the chapter on "Do not be a Needy AFC".

2. I don't remember all those PUA codes but the 4 triggers for attraction is valid and proven. I believe they are, in order, 1. predisposed to be attracted by women. 2. leader of men. 3. Care for loved ones. 4. Able to show normal range of emotions. So if you're not in the habit of demonstrating these things naturally, on the spot as it pertains to the situation, do some creative writing and strategize.

Do not call her often. Force her to call you. How? When you call her, keep it simple and tell her 1 fun story and that's it.

NYC: "Hey, when you get back, there's this little cafe you ought to see. . . "
After some discussion, she'll go, "Who did you go with?"

NYC: "I went with Angela. She's a bit weird. Drank a huge cup of coffee and was like, 'whooo whooo'! Ha ha ha . . . So what are you up to?" (And you really do have to go on these "FRIEND DATES")

Let her tell you 1 story and say, "Cool . . . I gotta get back to _____" Done! no more . . . She has needs to tell you stories . . . so she'll call you back. She wants to hear more of your stories . . . so she'll call you back.

See . . . there is an order to the madness. Through one short dialogue, you've just demonstrated 3 of the 4 points of attraction and you've shown that you have important things to do in your life. However, you have already been bitten by the one-itis bug and I fear if you cannot shift your mindset of pursuit vs. pursued, you will fall into a terrible trap.

This is why gaming multiple hb's is so helpful. To play the game properly, you have to take it easy. You have to be able to step back, take a deep breath and think, "Hmm . . . which one of these hb's will get the privilege of sucking my cock? . ." Only in this way will you boost your chances of scoring 10 fold. A few hb's flake out and you think to yourself, "Great, now the juggling of 4 hb's will be a lot easier. And you bounce them off of each other. You don't introduce everybody but they know they all exist. Get them competing for you . . . This is the game.

If you make 1 sappy phone call, listen to all her crap and comment, "I like you . . " and you are 100% done and out of the game. There is absolutely no line between an afc and a pua. It's like saying that there is a fine line between a 50cc scooter and a 1300cc Harley.

Fair enough. Thanks for the reply dude.

You are right. I have to go back to fundamentals. Reverting back to the needy AFC is the default option.

What I would say though is, there is a large distribution of hb7s out there, but not a lot of hb10s. So building the confidence to act like the prize with rarely hot women (as much as it would work so much better) is not exactly straightforward.

It's like going and finding some classic one of kind car of your dreams but trying to play it cool and be ready to walk away should seller not come to your price (knowing full well that you might not find this opportunity easily again). Easy in theory, but hard in practice. But I agree with all you say and need to get my head back to the logics of the seduction....

NYC,

How in the World does a guy from NYC say something like this? How old are you? Unless you're 17 and you actually lived in a town of 2,000 all your life and only dream of moving to NYC, there is something very wrong here.

Go out to the city and walk for 1 hour. If you can't spot over 50 hb10's in that time, go get your glasses adjusted. This has nothing to do with getting your "head back" into logistics or anything. You need to get your BODY out of the house and begin chatting with women. Get out there and chat. Stop making this a "Meet - chat - get number - date - fuck" game. Just go out and try to chat with a lot of people. You are way to jittery and insecure. Women can smell this from a mile away. The only way to get through this is to just open . . . chat . . . and realize that:

HB WHAT?!? Dude, this might seem like a sacrilegious statement around here but really, it doesn't exist. Take any hb7 and give her 1k a month to spend on her face and hair. Give her an additional 2k to spruce up her wardrobe. She becomes a hb9. . . sometimes even a 10.

If you live long enough and keep in touch with your friends, you'll notice plenty of transformations. hb9's who become hb4's. hb4's who become hb9's. This is life. Men seem to think that beauty is stagnant. It's not. Add plastic surgery and really . . . NOTHING exists. The only thing you need to gauge is where a particular HB is in her life.

If you can't somehow manage to expand your horizons and learn to "lean back" not just physically but emotionally as well as mentally, you're well on your way to losing this HB10 of yours and every "interesting" girl you meet in your future. Stop trying to catch cats by chasing them around with a net and yelling at them to come over to you. Just put out a bowl of warm milk by your feet and read the newspaper. Get it?

haha. good points. yes there is NO shortage of hot chicks in nyc.

Though i will say I don't use the term HB10 unless the girl has the total package (ie appealling physically, mentally, spiritually, etc). Hence would still argue (in the ocean of generic vacuous girls) real hb10s are rare (even in nyc). i've been dating a bunch of 6,7,8's all summer. so the one-itis here is not from lack of pursuing chicks, but if you meet one that blows you away (as opposed to just blows you haha) than of course the one-itis thing happens. I wasn't even looking for it. With the generic ones i didn't give a shit.

I've lived in london, nyc, and have been all over europe and asia. believe me, there are millions of HOT chicks. but are there millions that one would say this is my dream girl...not really...i know this is a total afc one-itis thing to say. let's just say i was damn impressed with this chick.

1. Go in to your DVD collection.
2. Remove Cinderella, Snow White, Little Mermaid, etc, etc . . .
3. Burn them

There is NO such thing as a "total package", "love at first sight", or as you put it "damn impressed." If you're inflicted with the one-itis diesease, it's because she GAMED YOU. She played you and you FELL FOR IT. You didn't "decide" to be impressed at this girl. Your heart just started beating fast and that's it.

Now, there is nothing inherently wrong with being gamed. This is fun. Hey, men love being romanced and being swept of their feet just as much as women . . . right? But what's more fun that just sitting home with your new disease and feeling that puppy love is strategizing and progressing this game further. Adversely, you know what would be terrible? How about walking down that AFC path and burning this fucking bridge for ever. Wouldn't that suck?

Dude, you know EVERYTHING. You seem to know this game. You've been around. You're mature. But you have to give in to the reality of our social structure and your past experiences. There are no exceptions.

Dude, as Deangelo says, if a woman see you are good for LTR she will hold sex so you don't think she is a slut. But if she is sexualy attracted to you she will be still open to LTR!

I used to be think just like you until recently and know how it feels that persuit of the "perfect woman". It doesn't exists man!! I would advise you to think more about a perfect time than to a perfect person.

Cheers

I read this 3 times but I have no idea what the hell you or this Deangelo fella is trying to say.

Are you implying that women will consider you for LTR even if she is NOT sexually attracted to you? Huh? . . .

I mean . . . there seems to be some important message in this phrase but I just can't figure it out. Anybody?

im pretty sure what hes getting at is that if a chick realized that she would rather have you as a boyfriend as opposed to a one night stand, then she would have LMR and not want to fuck. What his other statement means is that even if she fucks you(being sexually attracted to you) then she still could be down for a relationship.

doesn't make much sense to me but i think thats what hes trying to say.

Yes, that's what i meant. I have asked about that for a lot of girl friends that agree they would wait longer for sex with a guy who they think to be LTR material

Well, this part I think is somewhat common knowledge. I am more curious about the thoughts behind the second part of that phrase.

Usually, if you meet a girl and F close her on that day, they usually tend to flake out for eventual meetings. They're less likely to introduce you to her friends . . ."Yeah, this is the guy that fucked my brains out that night when I got real drunk . . ."

And they're less likely to go for LTR because they know that you have "short game". They fear that if you ever "go out" without her, there's always a chance that you can cheat . . . much easier than other guys. . .