I'm still new to the game and have had some successes but not much. I'm naturally a quiet, reserved, laid back kind of guy. Before, I used to be known as the "nice guy." I am a really nice guy and still plan on being so, but I've been working on trying to find a meeting ground between the nice guy and bad guy. What advice do you have for naturally quiet people? This is my main problem in being a PUA...What things should I do differently? Thanks

Force yourself to talk louder and be more social. The more you get in to learning the game, the more confident and willing you will be to interact with others and be the center of attention. You will become less quiet over time as the rest of your game progresses. You can do things like going to speech therapy and the likes but it is not necessary in my opinion.

I used to be as you describe, quiet and nice. The problem with being a 'nice guy' is that every lovable loser out there is a 'nice guy' because they consciously or subconsciously believe that 'if I'm nice to her, then she will be nice to me back and we can date!' Wrong.
Women are so desensitized by men being really courteous that it just rolls off their backs. If you see a stranger (woman) at a bar and offer to buy her a drink then you are just demonstrating to her that you have no value. By complementing her or jumping through a hoop (doing a favor for her) then you show that:
1. Beautiful women is not a common component of your life and you are not pre-selected
2. You want something from her... sex
3. You are not comfortable enough to be normal with her because she is beautiful

You can be a nice guy on the inside, but there is no reason to treat a complete stranger like royalty. This should be your mindset:

I am a great person and have many possible women to choose from in my life. I am the prize and for any woman to enter my life, it will be the best thing to ever happen to her. I do not see beauty as an indicator of a good woman because beauty is common. If a girl can demonstrate to me that she indeed has good personality traits, then I become attracted to her.

Obviously this is probably going to be a lie, but this is the mindset you need to have. This doesn't mean you are going to date really ugly girls because they have good personalities (although it might, but it shouldn't). Most of a woman's value comes from her physical appearance, most of a man's comes from his status in the tribe. If you are not phased by her appearance and can be witty, clever, and tease her, then she has no choice but to assume that you are the tribal leader.

someone mentioned this in the PUA lounge, and its a common mistake which people make when trying to become a PUA.
its completely understandable because everything you read tells you that you cant be the nice guy if you want to get girls, but you don't take it in the context that it's meant to be.

there is NOTHING wrong with being nice. just dont be nice for no apparent reason.
i think it was either David D or Mystery who wrote "Don't be the nice guy, be the good guy" in response to some hate mail they got from a guy who turned into a dick in order to try get girls.

now, maybe i'm taking this a bit far, but... it sounds like you want to work in some elements of being a jerk into your game. not cool.

a PUA is a MAN (jerks aren't men, they're little boys with ego problems) with finesse, style and class. He knows he has these qualities and he knows how to convey them to women to attract them. he truely loves women and treats them with respect, but he's not afraid to call them out on their shit either.

Plethora gave some excellent advice. the more sociable you make yourself be and the more you force yourself to become part of social situations, the more comfortable you'll be and it'll show. you'll also start talking more, because you're more comfortable (and because you're going to force yourself to open set to become more extroverted like i did)
it's not an easy road, but its doable.
congrats on taking the steps to become who you want to be

dancingomus, I'm with you...I'm usually the quiet, laid back guy as well. I also have a natural friend who can talk about nothing for 10 hours straight and have girls completely captivated. If I want to get a word in edgewise I have to speak louder.

I revert to my vocal lesson days where I imagine I'm trying to pin my voice on the back wall...don't talk at them or it may seem like you're yelling at them. You want to project through them...sounds much more natural.

btw just my 2 cents, nice does work but only to ugly girls cause they're not used to people being nice to them lol. Which is exactly why negs work on hot girls because they're not used to getting dissed...

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Oh how the power of the neg will help you so much. I say just hang around girls more often and interact with them on a non-attractive level. Negging good looking girls is your way to being playful. You never want to completely be a dick to a hot girl unless she deserves it. Just be playful around girls and you'll work your way in

there are some types of men girls like, and friendly guys are not among them...

http://ezinearticles.com/?How-to-Get-Gi ... id=1344562

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Do you have any evidence to back this claim?
Being a nice guy implies that you are nice at all costs because you identity comes from being nice. While being nice can be great the world in general is not a nice place in my opinion. Individualistic culture tells people they should make themselves rise to the top of success at any cost. The consequences of that are many times manipulation of nice guys. Let me ask you why are you nice? If its because you want to make people feel better about themselves and be happier then that's great I totally agree with you. However the typical nice guy way to do this is through compliments and supplication. There are problems with this.

-hes dishonest the nice guy is dishonest because he will compliment without giving his honest opinions on things. He will try so hard not to step on peoples toes that he will be too busy being all cautious and crap to ever put forth his very own views. Therefore he never actually makes a real difference in peoples lives. Those who want to be successful at any cost will step on and use him, sad but true.

I have no problem with being nice, but I have no problem being an asshole either. I try to do what I feel is best to love everyone around me. Sometimes people are so off in lala land that things are alright that they can't even see their problems. Look at a drug addict for instance they are hurting themselves and everyone around them. They need to be told they have a problem and that they are hurting everyone they hold dear. Being like ohhh its alright you will get off those evil things someday is useless this will not motivate them to fix the problem and until someone comes along and is an asshole about it a little bit then they will never be motivated to change their behavior.

As far as being a nice guy I believe it is possible to do so and have people including chicks like you, but you need to also see that there are times when the nicest thing you can do is be realistic and open peoples eyes on certain things. If you don't have views of your own/ never express those views then you are easily manipulated, used, and thrown away by anyone that comes along. As far as how to be a nice guy and still get chicks I think it comes down to being genuine. If you genuine like someone about someone then say it. Appreciating people is extremely powerful, but if you are doing it just to say get sex that is when the part of you that you say is nice is really just selfish and needy. There's alot more to discuss on this, but thats all I want to put for now because I've found that people on this forum have short attention spans and refuse to read much more than 2 paragraphs haha.

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You have balls yes, but how often do you actually use them?

Self help.. that's mental masterbation. Self Destruction.. now we're getting somewhere!
"http://www.confidencedynamics.com"- science backed confidence coaching

p.s. I'd also recommend you check out zans material. His stuff is great for showing how to be a nice guy that girls love. Juggler as well goes along with this.

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You have balls yes, but how often do you actually use them?

Self help.. that's mental masterbation. Self Destruction.. now we're getting somewhere!
"http://www.confidencedynamics.com"- science backed confidence coaching

Jerks always seem to win in America. Sad but very true. Pushy, loud, fat people rule the country. Actually, that describes the typical American girl these days!!

What the hell is this "nice guys only get ugly girls" bullshit?

"Nice guys" don't seem to get girls because most of them are lying to themselves. They guys that get the girls are the ones that are the closest to being who they truly are. Guys who are rotten on the inside fail when they act nice, but succeed when they embrace their true jerk nature. Guys who are genuinely nice and selfless generally just have a lot of layers stifling their expression so they just happen to lie to themselves about many things.

As for quietness, yeah that's not going to fly no matter what way you spin it. You're not naturally quiet. As a human being you are naturally expressive, but something is squishing you down. Remove what is stifling you to let your core shine through. Be unapologetic and fucking speak up like you have a pair.

I'm a very nice guy. It's who I am, can't help it, and now that I'm older don't think I want to. In my younger years I did take on the asshole persona, but it always left me conflicted, jaded, and misanthropic. That's not a good way to be.

It's not the asshole part of the guy that women like. They all complain about it right? You know that being a nice guy, so what else could it be? It's the other stuff. Women are hardwired to find powerful men. Health, wealth, societal standing, whatever. Nice guys don't convey that. They tend to convey neediness. Lack of confidence. Permanent support.

Being a nice guy is an asset to you. Chivalry is not, nor should it be dead, but your kindness is an asset, and you have to treat it as such. She should be lucky to have such a man in her life. There are plenty of women who desire that, but too often we fall short in the other aspect of attraction and value demonstration. Scarcity creates value. You're (we're) on the right path I believe. Don't give it away for free. They should earn it. Confidence and kindness is a wonderful asset to have I believe. Nice guys united!!

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It's better to act and repent, than to not act and regret - Nicolo Machiavelli

one other thing taht i've thought about is that quiet people aren't genuinely interested in other peope. we tend to think/analyze/quant types/logic. at least that's what i've found. people like talking about themselves. ask them some questions and let them do the talking. follow up with another open ended question and they'll go on again. you're just directing the confab to other people's tendancies to talk about themselves. over time i think you'll become more interested and open up conversations. don't be threatened.

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It's better to act and repent, than to not act and regret - Nicolo Machiavelli