hey guys. i have a big problem. i've been scanning the forum as a guest for a few days trying to find an answer but im still clueless...
here's my situation. (sorry for the long post)

i was on and off with this girl for about a year before we officially started dating. our friends likened us to Ross and Rachel from that crappy series "Friends". we then dated for about 1.5 years (up to april this year), we broke up because i didnt love her anymore. i was still attracted to her and really wanted to date her still but i wasnt in love with her anymore. so, being straightforward i told her and she ended it. after being broken up for a month or so we decided to get back together and give it another shot. i gave it all i had, all was going well and i was busy falling in love with her again. then, mid august she asks me if i love her. i knew i was falling in love with her and i told her that... that wasnt good enough for her (she didnt want me to be falling in love with her, she wanted me to love her) and she broke up with me. we decided to stay friends and still hang out etc, we text each other at least 5-10 times a day.

anyway, about 2 weeks ago (on a thursday) we decided to hang out. at the end of the night she tells me that she's started seeing someone else. i kept my composure that night until she left... then went and got hammered with my friends.

i didnt speak to her until the saturday night. i pulled classic AFC and told her that i love her etc, i was all needy and clingy and desperate and lame. the sunday we spent the whole day on MSN chatting with me declaring my undying love etc etc and eventually on the sunday night i went to go speak to her in person.

when i got there she told me that since the first breakup she's been holding herself back. she was afraid of getting hurt and then that romantic love she felt for me started changing to loving me like her best friend. she also felt unappreciated in the relationship because i didnt get excited about small things like our monthly anniversaries anymore and i didnt go visit her as much as she came to visit me (thats bs though)
so when she asked me if i love her and i replied with "im falling in love with you" instead of "i love you" she decided that she's not even going to try change how she feels and just break up. after much begging and trying to convince her (i even started crying in front of her... and i couldnt stop) she told me that she still loves me but that she's not in love with me anymore.

since then i've slipped into a pretty bad depression. we text and chat every day because we decided to stay best friends etc... (yes, probably a bad move but i felt that i need her in my life) so she's well aware of my depression and even knows that i'm taking anti-depressants.

i love this girl. one-itis as you pickup guys call it. i need to get her back. she's the smartest, coolest, hottest (HB99) and most caring and loving girl i've ever known.

the situation with her current bf:

they started dating about 3 weeks ago. he also just got out of a serious relationship and they've both decided to take it slow, which i believe because she's quite conservative and she has a serious tell when she lies.
he's leaving the vet campus at the end of the year, so they're trying to see whether they can give the long distance thing a shot. and no, she didnt cheat on me. i have good mates in the dorm where she stays, who're friends with the new boyfriend. anyway, i think this new guy is just a rebound though. he filled a hole that was left after the breakup by giving her attention and making her feel good about herself... so i dont think she's attracted to him but i think she's telling herself that she is because he makes her feel better. any thoughts on this?

other complications:

she stays in a dorm with her cousin on the vet campus (about 30mins drive from main campus where i stay). they're both the same age and both study the same thing... veterinary science. they're best friends and blood relatives.
i met both girls on the same night and the 3 of us used to hang out a lot, so i'm really good friends with her cousin.

one of my best friends is now dating her cousin. they've been dating for around 6 months and they're pretty deeply in love. because of that, the cousin is often hanging out with us, which i dont mind because we get along really well but she also knows that im cut up and broken inside.

thats pretty much the whole story. im deep in the friend zone with an ex who has a new boyfriend. she loves me but she isnt in love with me and she wants to be friends and hang out and chat etc. she wants me to stay her best friend and i want her to be my gf. again. i dont even know if she's still attracted to me.

i'm a bit of a natural, so getting girls hasnt been too hard for me (i'm pretty good looking so that obviously helps a lot as well) but i just dont know how to go about this. how do i get her to be attracted to me again? i know that if i can just get her to date me that i can get her to fall in love with me again... i've learned from my mistakes, i know what i did wrong and i KNOW that i can make it work if i can just get her interested in dating me... but how do i do that now?

i have tests until the end of the week, then im going back home for a week (yes, we get a week's holiday. fucking lame.) after that week it's about a month of class and then exams for 2 weeks (exams begin 1st november and end mid november) after exams we're on holiday until mid january. we both study and stay in Pretoria during the term but i live in Durban and she lives in Cape Town (about 12 hours drive apart), so theres no chance in seeing each other during holidays. i was thinking of breaking contact for a month, but then i'd only speak to her again right before exams start and not see her again until mid january, which'll give her plenty of time to fall in love with someone else.

also, she's turning 21 on 2nd november and i really want to get her something special. should i? (btw, shes probably going to get me something good for my 21st which is 3 weeks after hers)

anyway, as you guys can see, im pretty screwed and i really need you guys to help me out here...
...oh, and for those of you who're going to reply with "get over her, move on etc", let me spare you your time - i AM going to marry this girl. i AM going to get her back, i just dont know how... yet. i even rejected a contract to go work in Dubai after i finish studying just so i can be with this girl. to give you an idea, the starting salary would've been 4x more than i would earn here in South Africa after 5 years of experience, without taxes. you may ask why... its because they dont need vets in dubai.

Im in a similar situation dude, theres only one cure. sex with as many different women as you can. sounds shallow etc but its the only way. eventually you will forget about her, just shag shag shag!!

_________________
From Plymouth, so let me know if you wanna hookup. joshjowns@gmail.com or josh jones on facebook

Hey bud sorry to hear about your situation, I just got out of the same thing. And I'll let ya know what I'm doing.

Ok well, the more clingy needy you become the more she is going to walk away. This is what I did this past summer and its exactly what happen. So what works?

My ex was a close friend for 6 years before we dated. We broke up because she was going to her first year of college blah blah.. and she told me "I can see us getting together in the future?" So the AFC response would be: "Why wait baby i love you come back to me yadda yadda yadda."

The better response, but is a bit harder is to say/go through with is "OK I respect your decision, sounds good." Because when you come at a girl expressing your feelings she won't really be thinking about her own, just how annoying you are begging/pleading for her to come back. So what do you do? Ignore her, long term freeze out. It makes her think of you, it makes her remember the good times, do NOT talk to her she will COME back and start talking to you, and THAT is when you make your move but do it slowly.

Proof: This summer I dated her, she told me quits, I did beg at first, I went behind her back and told her best friend to hook us up again, and I said some really MEAN things (EXTREMELY afc). Than I just started ignoring her. Last week she sent me an email with a picture saying "I wish this was your secret" (the picture was of something sentimental to us). I asked her about it, and she goes I just wanted to let you know I think about you from time to time. (AKA She is not over me). (She was also hooking up with a guy from school at this time).

Basically no girl is going to fall in love with a needy, begging guy. You need to be the same guy she originally fell in love with, and that just takes time. She may from time to time send you emails/texts about things from the relationship DO NOT TAKE THESE AS SHE WANTS TO GET BACK TOGETHER, act unphased, and she will wonder more about you. Give her space buddy, and let her start initiating conversation with you, than you slowly flirt and start to tell her how you feel. If you don't, YOU WILL NOT have a second chance with her.

I'll let you know about the first born. =) Anything else feel free to ask.

_________________
I live the life I want to live, but I will not pass when an opportunity presents itself.

dude... i study in pretoria as well!
anyway man, i would've suggested cutting her out of your life for a month or 2 and then try game her again but the exams and holidays are screwing you over. maybe cut her out until the new term starts and then game her until exams? when you talk to her again in october, make sure you're confident and cool and shit, make it seem as if you've moved on and you're over her. take these 2 weeks to grab a tan and change your style a bit... i dont really know man... im just typing ideas that pop into my head. go sarging a bit... you're going to need some practice picking up girls and building attraction before you can work on your ex again, even if you are a "natural" (pm me if you're looking for a wingman). if you game her again in october and you feel like you've gotten some interest, keep gaming when you chat and sms each other. it sounds like the new dude could be a rebound, i dont understand girls yet but your theory sorta makes sense. and they wont see each other for 2 months... that sort of absence is pretty hectic on a relationship thats only 2 months old, especially if they're taking things slow. how old is the guy anyway? she's turning 21 now, so she's 3rd year? so if he's leaving... is he 7th? 25?
ahh man, this is pretty messed up, but dont worry... i think you can recover still. your begging and crying will just make it harder than it wouldve been because she lost a fair bit of respect for you.

lately i've been trying to not sound depressed and stuff when we chat, and im pretty good at hiding my feelings from people, so should i just act like im over her and im fine?

about the freeze out thing, should i just ignore her completely? (i wont run into her seeing as her campus is far away and they never come to my area to hang out/drink) should i tell her that im taking time to get over her and that i dont want to talk to her? we chat and text a lot. every day. it would be weird if i just completely ignore her, she'll probably think that im pissed off at her and then get pissed at me for ignoring her. do i want her to know that im taking time to get over her before contacting her again? im so confused right now.

hxc87x - i'm heading to the square tonight. lets do this.

Jesus Christ . . . mother of all that is holy! Reading your story is turning my stomach over! YOU are making me freakin' sick to my stomach you lame ass CHUMP!

Now . .

The truth of course is that I HAVE been there. And when I was there, I wish somebody just told me the damn truth. You're making me sick because you're reminding me of how idiotic I was, wasting my youth on . . . well, idiocy.

First off, what is it with kids of 20,21 using . . . no, abusing the word "love"? Fall in love, fall out of love, in love, out of love. . . what the hell! Get this word out of your vocabulary list. What you're going through has NOTHING to do with LOVE and in fact, you're insulting everything that his holy with "LOVE". STOP USING THIS WORD NOW. It's going to fuck you up. You've totally lost it. Don't say it, don't think it. . .

Next:

Obviously, you weren't that much into her to begin with. If you were, you would have said that 4 letter word that you've typed over, over, and over again in your post and you would have secured this little anchor of yours. Instead, even the chump who OVER uses the LOVE word withheld it. What does this say about how you feel about her?

Which was it? 1. Did you have no balls or 2. were you in fact simply bored of her? (Be honest with yourself and think back to the time when you didn't profess your love to her)

Instead of being a man and working other girls, she tells you she's seeing somebody else and now you start ejaculating your words of love? Are you lying now or were you lying before? I'll tell you exactly what's going on(because I've done this EXACTLY the way you're doing this now) is you've lost your balls. Your girlfriend cut it off and casually tossed into a cesspool. So . . .

When she told you she's seeing somebody else, you felt the distance between you grow a bit more. Either consciously or subconsciously, you're thinking, "Shit, I can't do better than her?!?! Obviously . . . I have no game. I'm an AFC. How am I going to 'game' anybody else and get a catch like that ever again?" - this of course is the AFC anthem. . . .

So you beg . . . you cry. You pop pills.(Shit, even I didn't go that far) Dude, you're doing this all to yourself. You're doing all the things that dumb ass movies and books and parents tell you to do. Then you know what those movies, books, and parents tell you to do? They tell you to get depressed. Why not? All those idiots in movies get depressed when they "lose" the girl. Dude, this is absolutely not the rule of our universe. This is made up crap developed for entertainment value.

This is what you have to do. And it's gonna stink. But YOU MUST do this. You're going to have to jump into that cesspool and get your balls back. Stop thinking about that 4 letter word, looking at old photos and listening to crappy music. Learn the GAME. You are NOT a NATURAL and in fact, you are an INSULT to NATURALS. The only natural skills you've shown us is an ability to cry at will and beg. This is sickening. A natural does not follow your flowchart of history. This is an impossibility.

1. You admit less interest in her.
2. She breaks up with you.
3. (This is the point where the naturals start gaming) This is when you run back to HER in fear.
4. Still you admit that you don't "LOVE" her.
5. She dumps you again.
6. She tells you about the other guy.
7. You self ejaculate a giant splooge of beggary.

This is ALL WRONG. YOU are the one who admitted that you DO NOT love her. What you are depressed about now has absolutely nothing to do with LOSING HER(you DON'T love her) and it has ALL to do with fear of not being able to secure other high quality girls.

Now you've actually fucked up your professional life over this? Are you mad?

Do you think you're special? You really think you're a natural? Many, many guys all over the World have repeated those same words when they were younger . . . "I'm going to marry her . . . she's the one . . . Really . . . " Really? You didn't seem so sure of that until she gave you the shit test. You didn't seem so sure of that until she pulled off the lowliest of "jealousy routines".

Put it this way, even within this extremely short time period, you went "this way, that way, this way, that way". . . and in that time, you managed to screw up a huge professional opportunity. What do you think a long term "commitment" either verbal or contractual will change?

You are walking down a path of misery. Let me tell you exactly what will happen. . . well . . . actually, I don't need to tell you because you already know. Yup . . .

Everything that has happened will simply continue to happen in its cycle of misery. You will continue to sacrifice your shit for this girl. Yet, as time continues, you will feel less attraction for this girl. Why? You already felt that you didn't love her not too long ago and the only thing that triggered this mad emotion change was a break up and an announcement of a new boyfriend. Do you want to go through this process for the rest of your life to keep your interest in her? Well you don't and you won't. So your interest level WILL absolutely go down and then you will absolutely resent her.

You and some of your wannabe-romantic fools might pounce on me for being jaded or whatever. Listen, who doesn't dig a love story? I love em'. . . it makes me happy to see happy people who love each other, get together. Your case however is just a case of puppy love gone terribly, terribly wrong.

1. Learn the game. I can't stress this enough. Gain some confidence. Read, practice, live it.
2. Call those guys back and find out about the Dubai contract.
3. Live a life. Grab yourself a great professional life so you can date girls. Meet people from different cultures. Live with girls. Date girls of different cultures. Break up with girls. . . date girls . . . then finally, "fall madly in love" instead of allowing some screwed up events "choose the one" for you and you have to . . . eh . . . what was your phrase, "WORK on falling in love?" Man . . . this is bad, bad, bad . . .

10seconds - did you ever tell her that you love her before she decided to get the new bf or was that the first time you told her that you loved her?
if you havent told her that you love her, did you ever love her while dating her? if you loved her and you were just afraid to say it, fine. i'll help. but if you didnt love her and you're just thinking you love her or, even worse, you're lying about loving her, grow a pair of balls and move on. be honest with yourself. take some time to think about it if you need to. i'm not going to game the square with a guy who's just desperate and trying to get back a girl who he doesnt even love.

kasabi - i agree and disagree with you. what you're saying there makes absolute sense but i think the dude is also very confused about this shit... almost seems as if hes been confused since the first time they broke up. he does sound desperate and insecure about this and i think what you mentioned about the new bf pushing them further apart is right, but it does SEEM to me as if he genuinely loves her and was just afraid to say it or just wasnt aware of it until recently... but im not saying that my assessment is correct, just my opinion.

Haha, this is one of the best posts on any thing on any forum I've ever read! Not only do I think it's good advice (even though if it was my situation I'm sure I'd be stupid enough to ignore or resent it), but it's a good wake-up slap in the face. People are on this forum because we're looking for advice from people who've been there, not for pats on the back or reassurances that will just continue to keep us miserable.

10seconds, she sounds like a great girl, but life is SOOOO much bigger. I went through a similar situation back in the day, and since then I've met girls that made me wonder what the fuck I really saw in that girl in the first place. It hurts like a mother fucker, but live through it man.

Man! Are everybody sarging the same girl here?

I have heard and lived this situation so many times. Hot hot hot girl with a BF. Yes, it couldd be One-itis but you think you love her. She sometimes sleep with you but dont wanna leave her BF...
Lets give her a name:
Anna the PUA destroyer

lol this is the thing. Love is double sided. You can not love someone if they don't love you back. One sided love is only lust & attraction.

Love is something you don't have to say, something you don't have to be reassured of, it is something you FEEL, not emote.

So the lesson the OP needs to learn?

You can't make someone love you, you can only make them desire you, than have the attraction turn to love. Your only going to get this girl to desire you if show no love towards her.

So the only way it will happen? Give it time, wipe the slate cleand start from day 1.

_________________
I live the life I want to live, but I will not pass when an opportunity presents itself.

i did love her. and i did tell her that i love her often...
from january til march was a rough time for us because she was working for selection into a specialist course. during those 3 months she was really distant and bitchy and although i didnt like it, i understood why she acted like she did. but 3 months of that shit took it's toll on our relationship and i didnt feel in love anymore. hence the breakup. it wasnt that i "withheld" love as kasabi put it, it was because of the 3 months of shit i had to put up with that made me feel differently. i knew i would love her again, but i didnt love her at that time. yes, kasabi, im saying love again.

i feel pathetic enough about this shit and i really appreciate all your input, especially kasabi's harsh assessment and advice on this shit. i phoned the headhunter who called me about the contract, i just signed and faxed the provisional contract. 2012 i'll be employed in dubai, on the condition that i am qualified by 2011. thanks for giving me the slap i needed to realise that im fucking up my life.

this is what i'm going to do:
- im going to go out with hxc87x tonight and see how i measure up against you guys. (i'll be at oppi hatfield, in the lounge from around 10 so pm me your name for the list. my phone's broken, but you'll know its me when you see me, im the skinny tall guy, drinking whiskey and wearing a band shirt with 2 hot blondes. oh, and they're lesbians but they're awesome for making other girls jealous...)
- i'm going to keep talking to her, but only as a friend and only if she texts me first. no more msn. if she wants to talk to me, she can make the effort... im not going to be desperate and needy anymore.
- i'm going to get my studies sorted out and make sure im qualified by 2011.
- i'm going to be fine. no, wait, im going to be great.
- i'm going to stop sulking and being lame and stop throwing myself at her.
- im going to shag as much as i can, as often as i can.
- im going to stop caring about her. she doesnt rule my reality anymore.

anything i can add to this list?

10seconds.... Take Kasabi's advice, print it off and read it every day for the next month. Then name your first born Kasabi. If that is not the advice you are looking for, than do yourself a favor... delete your account here and go cry on her frond door step till she kicks you where your balls used to be.

Do not buy her shit for her birthday. Thats a pussy move. Do not accept anything from her.

You may or may not listen to whats been written. But the absolute best thing for you is to leave her alone. Do not answer her calls/texts/ims/letters/moris code whatever... She will begin to wonder why. Then she will eventually get mad and wonder why you are ignoring her. Good.

People want what they cant have. You can't have her, so you want her more than ever. The moment you have her, you will realize... shes not all she is cracked up to be. At the same token, she knows she can have you at any point she wants. What is attractive about that? Seriously?

If you keep chasing, she is just gonna keep running. Stop chasing her, and make her chase you. You will be better off.

CK

_________________
success is my only mother fucking option, failure is not.

you've gotta get over her

Hey, I'm glad some of you guys liked my long rant/vent.

10 man, Your honesty makes this easy. At first, I had a fear that maybe there was a .0001% chance that this could some crazy ass love story that was beyond our cognitive grasp. I am certain now that my original assessment was 100% spot on.

Just read your own post. So, you "fell out of love" because she was bitchy. . . Well, good luck with keeping life bitchy-free. Ain't going to happen.

You're still fighting it a bit but the truth is in your very own writing. You're blaming YOUR change in emotions on everything but yourself. Dude, it's OK . . . you got bored of her because she was bitchy. There is absolutely no shame in that. How bitchy does a girl have to be in order to be labeled a "bitch"? Is 1 month of 12 enough? 3 out of 12?

What??? It's understandable? Really? How would this work during "Internship"? How will it work during "Fellowship"? How will it work when she has to work over time? If she loses her job in the future? What will happen if you hit financial hardship? Do you think those 3 months will be the most difficult period of her life?

Great move with focusing on your life. Man . . . that is absolutely impressive.

I just pm'd a guy about this. . .

Wesley Snipes once spoke about Korean women and how they are "bedroom warriors". They don't yell, scream, or go crazy. Instead, they get you when men are at their weakest, RIGHT IN BED. And they just whisper their commands right into your ear. They touch you right . . . and they make you feel like a king. When in fact, they know that they rule the Kingdom.

The further a man gets from that bed, the more powerful he becomes. And when a man actually finds himself into another woman's bed, well woman #1 has NOTHING to say does she?

Now the power demonstrated here is SEXUAL POWER. And you don't need to be a history buff to figure out how powerful this can be . . .

Now let's talk about some other forms of power. I'm not going to define everything and turn this into some sociology lecture but here it goes:

Social Power. Referent Power. Financial Power. Physical Power. And there are a few others. In your situation, your girl took control using her most powerful weapon. . . Sexual Power.

You were damn close to taking away your own financial power. You were taking away your own social power. . . which would eventually reduce your referent power to 0. What happens in a few years when she makes more money than you, you have less social networks than her, and she holds the keys to the handcuffs in the bed room?

You're deep fried and well done. . . get it?

Choose life! You're on your way!

In regards to Ms. Bitchy-only-3-months At a Time. the pinnacle of understanding and self control is indifference. There is no bad guy here as this was just a period of human interaction. No need to freeze her out completely and no need to cry on her doorsteps. She's a person too. You should wish her and her new bitch target boyfriend the very best.

You'll be busy now that have the WHOLE WORLD ahead of you. This is not just an incredibly rewarding experience and an undertaking, but also a great responsibility. (I mean this without even a hint of sarcasm)

Meet people . . . spread your positive vibes . . . I guarantee you will hear this more than just once, "Oh my God . . I'm so glad I met you . . ." - It is at that moment, you will understand my last sentiments. . .

Last night was awesome.
Took the advice and just went out and hit on girls for the first time in 2 years. Felt good. Really good. Picked up 7 numbers and had 2 girls kiss me, even though I REALLY wished that the last one had rather just left me alone.

HXC87X is an awesome wingman. If there's anyone else here from Pretoria who needs a wingman - HXC87X is the man.

Kasabi - Thanks man. You and HXC87X opened my eyes. I had a good chat with him last night before we started and it turns out that he has a similar story to mine, also happened recently. I'm going to do what he's doing. I'm going to move on, get new girls in my life and forget about her. I'll still talk to her and be nice etc, but I realized last night that I DON'T want her back. It was infatuation. That along with the rejection sent me into a crazy spiral of confusion and I crash landed into depression and desperation.

I realized this last night when I noticed how other girls find me amusing and attractive. Why dwell on one rejection letter if you have plenty of other people who want you?

So fuck it. I'm going to read The Game and follow it up with The Venusian Arts Handbook. This forum and last night gave me a bit of a new outlook on life... And I quite liked what I saw

EDIT:
A thing that's been on my mind all day: I don't want my ex back (anymore) but I want her to want me back. It doesn't make sense to me. Is this normal? The only possible reason I could think of is that the rejection hurt me and now I want revenge, eye for an eye.