Online pickup; steps after opening?



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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 10:59 pm 
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Hi guys,

I've been lurking for a little while and wanted to ask a few questions about online pickups.

The most basic one would be how to move on after successfully opening and getting a little small talk going? Are there any ways of switching the conversation so that she is asking questions and keeping the conversation going?


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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:21 pm 
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Although I don't condone using canned material or scripted lines as your means of reliance for attracting women the best way to understand the process of building attraction is to review Mystery's M3 model - it basically breaks the attraction process down to a science.

A1 - Open
Timeframe: From 3 seconds of noticing her, finish by 3 minutes into the set.
You open the set. In other words, you meet the girl.

In a social circle situation, this can be as easy as "Hey, nice to meet you" or being introduced to someone through a friend. In a cold approach, this is usually done through an indirect opener, like "Yo, let me get your opinion on something."

This stage concludes with the SOCIAL HOOK POINT (for cold approaches). The social hook point is the pivotal moment in the beginning of a cold interaction where the set (the girls/guys whatever) WANT you to stick around for a little bit, because you are INTERESTING. This is done by hooking their interest through negging or an interesting discussion sparked by the opener.

Newbie note: You DON'T want to be negging or kinoing this early in! Alternatively, you may open using a neg, but seriously, COOL IT. Noobs like to neg a whole lot as soon as they get in, this is a easy way to blow yourself out of the set. When you're learning the ropes, avoid negging until you're into A2.
A2 - Female-to-Male Interest
Timeframe: 3 minutes in (Social Hook Point) to roughly 5 or 10 minutes into the set
Simple: female gains attraction for the male. This is KEY. Notice how this step is IMMEDIATELY after A1 (the opener).... this should show you just how important it is that you start attracting her ASAP. Often, you can transition seamlessly from A1 to A2 by negging off the opener:

Guy: "Yo, let me get your opinion... would you date a guy in a wheelchair?"
Her: "Yes/No"
Guy: "OMG, it's okay, you can stop being nice... I know you'd just
use him to get free parking." "Haha, you are a mean one... I don't
know if I can hang with you *turn to her friends* She always like this?"
The guy CANNOT show too much premature interest in the girl. You should instead focus on gaining HER interest in YOU/HER attraction for YOU through the use of:

Stories
Leading her group of friends
AMOGing
Negs
C/F
Other demonstrations of high value (going up on stage to perform or whatever)
Newbie note: Kino here should be minimum, preferably formal at most, if she kinos first, DON'T return, and maybe even neg back ("Hey, hands off the merchandise, this shit ain't free!" with a SMILE).
Newbie note: DON'T IOI her in this phase, but watch for hers. As soon as you IOI, you're entering A3, which you don't want to do until she has EARNED it.
A3 - Male-to-Female Interest
Timeframe: Starts the first time you IOI the target, which shouldn't be until 5 or 10 minutes into the set, until around 20 minutes or so. If you can stay in the set this long, then you are good to move on to the next stage.
Once you know she is interested in you, it is now SAFE to start showing interest back. This is because now that you have a SOLID FOUNDATION OF ATTRACTION, any interest YOU show is less likely to come off as NEEDY. Instead, you are in a slight position of power and in a position to judge if she is cool enough to hang with you (because she has already decided YOU are cool enough to hang with HER, due to A2).

How do you know if she's attracted? IOIs (indicators of interest), that include touching, asking lots of questions about you, continuous eye contact, teasing back, negging back, etc. However, to fully convey that you are not needy, you are used to hot chicks, and that you are an overall awesome guy, you need to do two things:

Have her EARN your interest
Be interested in something besides her looks
A simple example of this is Mystery's Bait-Hook-Reel-Release method:

Me: "Hey... tell me.. are you Swedish?" (Bait)
Her: "Yes... why?" (Hook)
Me: "Oh my god... I'm a SUCKER for Swedish girls..." (Reel)
Me: "I can't even talk to you anymore..." (Release)
This is called qualification, when you qualify the girl as being worthy of interest. The B-H-R-R method is just ONE example of qualification, where you can deem her cool/worthy/interesting based off on pretty arbitrary bullshit (you may think it's arbitrary but the girls will be intrigued). You can also make them work harder to earn your interest, through statements like:

"Hey, at first you seemed kinda dull... but now that I've talked to you a bit more, you're pretty fun."
"So... what do you have going for you besides your looks?" "Blahblahblah" "Cool, I like that."
"I like your energy."
"I like the way you carry yourself."
Newbie note: THIS is the phase where you BEGIN kino as you've been taught, and start to taper off your negs.
Comfort
Before you can transition into comfort, it's a pretty good idea to isolate, if only a bit. Like, lead her outside, or to the other end of the bar, or if you're all sitting in a couch, reposition so the two of you are talking to yourselves at one corner of the couch. Just get some alone time.

C1 - Conversation
Timeframe: 20 minutes in, you've established she's into you, you've meagerly returned (shown) your interest back, now isolate and begin C1. This can last from another 10 minutes to 1 hour, 2 hours MAX.
Newbie note: If you came here for Ladder Theory, you IWs will recognize that "nice guys" tend to want to start HERE, rather than at A1, and that's how they wind up on the Friends Ladder.
C1 is usually an extension of A3, except you're no longer just trying to qualify her. You guys should be just CHILLING OUT and TALKING. This is to create a sense of COMFORT with one another. You know how old lovers can just relax together and just shoot the shit, sharing intimacies about themselves without really worrying? This is the ultimate goal of COMFORT and C1 is the beginning of that. So relax, tone down the c/f, drop the negs.... it's time to see if there are any commonalities between you and her (there almost always are... and if there aren't and you still wanna fuck her, then it's not that hard to make them up).

By commonalities I mean... even if you are an Econ professor and she is a Penthouse Pet, there are still commonalities you can build by discussing OUTLOOKS and PERSPECTIVES on things (rather than the actual subjects themselves). Emotions and ideals and such can always be related to on some level. This is called "grounding" your story.

Also, C1 is usually the last phase that you deal with at the same location you met her (club, party, whatever). However, it is important that you end on C1 in the same place you met her, rather than A3 or even A2 (when she is attracted), because it is NOT ENOUGH to insure a second meetup if all you do is attract. You MUST qualify and you MUST establish some comfort, so she doesn't just dismiss you as just another party/club-guy.

C2 - Connection
Timeframe: Begins after C1 and you've started comforting (roughly 2 hours tops here), now you're spending multiple hours getting to know her for more comfort. This can take a few hours, usually between 2 hours more, to upwards of 8 hours; average of 5, and may be broken into chunks of separate dates a few days apart.
Connection is just conversation taken to the next level along the commonalities and "our-world" train of thought. Not much to add here except keep talking, keep sharing, keep creating that "us" vibe. Things such as vulnerability stories and letting her see a different side to you (maybe a more tender or chill/laid-back side) is good stuff. Kissing should take place at this stage.

This stage can take place over several dates. However ideally, you'll want to further isolate your date (and her friends if absolutely necessary) from the area you met her in and isolated her in during the A1-3 and C1 stages. This can be done in an "insta-date" the same day you meet her, say you mention "I suddenly wanna go to this 24 hr diner down the block, wanna come with and get some fries?". Or if logistics deny that, get a number (hopefully you've gotten a number in the C1 phase already) and make plans for later in the week to meet again. But know that the whole C2 phase has to take place in places OTHER than where you met her, and where you began C1, to be successful.

C3 - Intimacy
Timeframe: After days have passed usually, but at least a total of 4 hours or more have been spent in face to face time.
C3 may or may not be in the same location as C2, however it really MUST be in the same location as S1 (the sex location, see below). Basically, C3 kicks in when you are in a prime position to FULLY CLOSE THE DEAL. So maybe you guys have a date at your apartment, cook dinner, cuddle together, talk a bit, kiss a few times (C2)...

Then the kissing becomes more intense. You guys are alone, so it's good to go. The kissing turns into heavy making out/etc. Bam. C3. You're ready to close this shit.




Seduction
This is it. And this is a CRUCIAL step. You MUST seduce (fuck) her if you want a serious sexual relationship. Set the tone early.

Obviously, if you are in HS or dealing with a super inexperienced girl, you can slow down and adapt accordingly (to a 13yo virgin, making out may mean the same thing as sex to a 25yo partygirl in terms of courtship).

S1 - Arousal/Foreplay
Timeframe: During another C2 session, you've stepped up the action, you have the opportunity to find privacy in this C2/C3 location, now further isolate the target to a comfortable sex location to begin S1.
Okay, so do your thing. Heavy makeout, necking, fingering, fondling, whatever... turn up the heat. I'm not going into super specifics here because the most important thing about S1 is NOT the actual techniques for arousal. Well, fine, those are important too, but it is key that this is when you start S1... and not before.

You may be tempted to push it and push it... say, back in A2, when she is all attracted to you and throwing IOIs. Or in C2, when you guys are out on a date and kissing... and you just start heavy makeout, starting touching her, fingering, whatever.

DON'T DO THIS IN THE EARLIER PHASES. RESIST THE FUCKING URGE.

Everything has it's place. Yes, you might be able to get away with it. But 97% of the time, if you S1 TOO EARLY, the girl will have buyer's remorse. She will not have had sufficient time to feel comfort/connection/intimacy with you, so even if you DO end up fucking her, she will not want to see you again, CUZ SHE WILL FEEL LIKE A SLUT.

This model is for SOLID GAME (to lead into relationships). If you want ONS, stop at A3, pump the attraction, and fuck her while she's on that emotional high.

S2 - LMR
Timeframe: Somewhere after you've been into foreplay, you may even be starting sex by this point
To directly quote Mys: "Last Minute Resistance. This is the point of no return before sex occurs. It's often a freak-out moment for the woman."

There you have it. She may be like "This is too fast..." or "I barely know you" or "No sex... okay?" or just push you away from certain areas (like her underwear). You own LMR by defusing it with things like:

"LMRing" first (lol... so basically YOU say "we should stop..." first)
Ignore it with a cute reply ("This is too fast..." "Yeah, but it's fun, right?" *kiss*)
2 steps forward/1 step back escalation -> if she won't let you near her underwear, concentrate elsewhere, then go back.
Freeze-out, or 1 step forward/2 steps back -> When she says stop, heed that, and in fact, back FURTHER up, and even turn off entirely. Don't act annoyed or angry, but act completely uninterested. Fire up the computer, check your email, get some water, turn on the TV, whatever. Or, just lay there in bed and don't say a word. When she realizes that she was previously enjoying herself, she'll realize that one more step forward would have been more enjoyable than taking two steps backward. She'll likely try to get you back in the friendly mood paying attention to her, in which case you're back at S1, try again.
S3 - SEX
Do it. And do it well.


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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:14 am 
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Great post c_n12!


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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:51 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:34 pm
Posts: 431
Website: http://www.icanmakeyousexy.com
AOL: Nizzle3641
Location: Massachusetts
Appreciated but most of that was taken directly from the Mystery Method M3 Model Ladder.

- Chris 8)


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