Can I ask a question related to a specific girl that I have a crush on? I know PUA is generally focused on running the numbers on multiple approaches...

... but there is a girl I know as a friend and as a client of her professional services as an acupuncturist. I think she's okay. She's kind of skinny, possibly infertile, and has cold hands.. She is fairly nice and thoughtful, though I'm not sure about her political views of tastes in music... Maybe not the one for me, but I would like to find out..

Anyways, it's a really funny story about what we have in common. Any interest in me sharing this story? My friend cracked up when I mentioned it.

go for it.

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The fuck? Political views? How could that possibly matter. It's just a bunch of stupid crap that has nothing to do with your day-to-day life.
We should have more guns! No! Fewer guns! - Stupid, doesn't matter.
I think we should ban gay marriage! I think we should treat everyone the same! - Stupid, doesn't matter.
Abortion is worse than the holocaust! Forget abortion, I'm cool with infanticide! - Stupid doesn't matter.
We should pray in school! No praying in school! - Stupid, doesn't matter.

Do you own a gun? No? Stop worrying about what other people are doing. Yes? Awesome, no one is trying to take your guns. Are you gay? No? Then how does it affect you? Yes? What tangible impact does this really have on your everyday life? Are you a fetus? No? Then why are you worried about them? Yes? You are one smart fetus my friend! Do you even go to school? No? Then who cares what some other people are/are not praying to? Yes? Do whatever you want. You can pray in school, you don't need to force other people to do it.

About the only things that matter in politics are economic/trade policy, and I'd say perhaps %1 of people even vaguely understand how the economy works. Thus, political opinions are quite worthless. They have fuck all to do with your actual life, and whatever your opinion, it's not like your political officials even get the imaginary stuff you mentally masturbate over, done. They just spend all of their time complaining about shit.

I'd be down for a girl who wants to live under a Christian theocracy or one who wants to make animals full citizens. None of that shit is going to happen, and it's not like me being with her makes it any more/less likely to happen anyway.

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RSDTyler

I understand your point. I have friends with all sorts of political views. I try not to make it matter too much... You're a young man, no? When you get older, you may discover that politics DO have fuck all with day to day life.. Our views on politics define how we view almost everything we see in this world.

My parents agree on politics so it gives them something to talk about... And conversations with other family members who disagree can be very awkward. There are so many family arguments about politics...

Anyways I'm supposed to be picky, remember? That's what gives us confidence, I thought? Aren't we supposed to project the whole "I'm trying to see if you're good enough for me" vibe?

Why not be picky?

Right... So I had a crush on her in 2003 when I was a grad student in biomedical sciences. I decided to go to school for that field because I had a medical problem and wanted to see if I could do something in researching it.

I had ulcerative colitis. It was so bad that I didn't go out on some weekends. I felt totally and utterly alone. I felt like I had seriously low sexual market value.

I talked to this girl on occasion but never really got to know her deeply. She was friendly enough. I lacked confidence, in part, because of my condition.

I went into biomedical sciences, coming from computer science, and so I didn't know crap about biology going in..

I was totally overwhelmed on my first exam.. I sat next to her and copied as much as I could off of her paper.. She was drawing amino acid molecules like a true artist.. All 19 of them.. Applying the Henderson-Hasselbach equation. Fill in the blanks ... "epigenetic".... I copied that one off her.. I sat in awe, just trying to get the contents of her paper onto mine.

I got like 50% on the exam :/ Ha.. lucky I didn't get 0. Still, by the end of the semester I actually got my grade up to a B, with my own efforts... So it was good that I hung in there..

One day I was at the health foods store trying to buy some stuff to mix up an Indian Ayurvedic concoction to treat my disease, after reading a paper on the subject... I saw her there. She was buying some stuff too... some bottles of herbs.. I smiled, and she smiled back, but I didn't approach her to ask her what she was buying or why... Seems kind of personal.. Thought maybe it was a feminine issue..

I never talked to her much after that. I assumed she finished her PhD and went off to work at some big pharma research company.

Flash forward to 2015. I see a flyer for acupuncture at my work with her photo on it. I'm thinking... "What the fuck?! Why did this biomedical genius girl become an acupuncturist? I thought for sure acupuncture was bullshit." I couldn't understand how someone with a brilliant scientific mind would go into Chinese medicine. I figured she had either lost her flipping mind or there was actually something to it that was real....

Aside from my colitis, I also had chronic pain in my left arm from a car accident so I figured I would write her email and see if I could get some info about it.. I didn't mention the colitis.. too embarassing!! She writes back and says she tried it for an "issue she was having" and "fell in love" with it.. I thought... "well, that's vague enough. I wonder if it's related to those herbs she was buying way back when."

So, in the past I had put her on a pedestal in my mind, and as you can tell, I still do.. But then I was thinking..."Who left this damn flyer out at my work?" ... Hmm... friends? a family member? I searched the company directory and lo-and-behold the guy who had been sitting next to me for a year had the same last name!! Duh! I never noticed him because he was such a damned dork... very polite and nice guy, though... a COBOL programmer...I work as a software developer, FYI... So I go over and look in his cube and he's got photos of her plastered everywhere. ... It's his daughter.. Haha.. In my mind this took her down from a 9 to a 7... I'm like "Haha. This girl I had a crush on is no better than me. We're both from dork families!"

I'm conflicted in my mind because I don't want to spend money on acupuncture ($90/session) because I think it's not even real, but I want a chance to finally see this girl and see what she's about.

I finally made a decision to pay to try acupuncture. So, I get there, and there's a form to fill out... A medical questionnaire asking me what conditions I have .. I figure I'll just stick to the story of my left arm hurting (which it really does) and not mention the colitis. But... I'm paying for this, and there's no guarantee of anything except medical SPAM.. so "why not be honest?", I decide... I write down ulcerative colitis...

So she comes in with my form on a clipboard and she's like "Well... I remember you mentioned something about your arm in your email, but I see you have colitis written down here." I'm thinking "oh God, how embarassing"...

She continues "My mom had Crohn's disease and I've had similar symptoms my whole life, and that's why I tried acupuncture and eventually decided to go into Chinese medicine"

Does that seem at all serendipitous? Having a crush on a girl and being instinctively attracted to someone with the same diarrhea problems?! Haha... Seems really funny now, but I'm kicking myself for not getting to know her 10 years ago, escecially it actually works...

It's not like we had a good reason to open a conversation about our bowels.. Weird, huh?

That actually is a pretty good story. Irony is a neat sometimes.

So - did you ask her out? If you're not completely turned off by her medical issues and what not, that's a damn good opportunity. I hope you didn't waste it if you were interested!

Even if you did - follow up, man. Nothing to lose since you don't believe in acupuncture anyway and can never see her again if you please.

I'm 29. No, they really don't. Nearly all of politics are wedge issues about philosophical matters that have nothing to do with our normal lives - at all. Our political discourse is literally designed to be huge, sprawling and nonsensical, so we can all have a big pie over stupid shit like gay marriage and the death penalty, which affects a tiny portion of the population.
Yeah, which kind of highlights what I'm saying. Political opinions are utterly worthless. Even if you find someone who happens to agree with you, it won't be due to solid reasoning, but by random dumb luck.
Better than finding someone who arbitrarily agrees with you about stuff that doesn't matter, just stop worrying about stuff that doesn't matter.

People who spend a bunch of time talking politics, lead boring, crappy lives. I don't think I've ever met a cool person who talks much about politics at all.
No, you should be intelligently selective. This would amount to "I cannot be with a woman who prefers I Can't Believe It's Not Butter to Blue Bonnet".
I think Mystery invented the idea of "Qualification" and he was half right. He noticed that asking questions about a girl seemed to make her more open. It's true, but mostly misses what you're really doing.
Rather than projecting that she has tests to pass, it works a lot better if you're actually taking interest in this girl and finding out if you really like her and what you like about her. This also needs to be coupled with the intention of leaving her and going to a new girl if you don't think you two will get along.

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RSDTyler

I get what you're saying. I probably wouldn't want to be judged for the "little things", either. I would want to be judged on day-to-day interactions and whether I am pleasant to be around, not whether I have the same view on the world. She's really skinny and has cold hands, and probably is cold to the touch, but I could look past that..

Anyways, there's a number of things complicating this situation.

She's got a boyfriend and they've been together a while. I dunno whether they're happy together but they have pictures of themselves as a couple on both their Facebook pages. He's got his own house and at least he's employed...

I have been needy as fuck, because my company has be on unpaid leave because I had THC in my urine :/ I had a doctor's recommendation for it, for my conditions, and she understands that, but I still feel like it's a low-value thing to have going.

There's a spot to leave a tip on the receipt for the SPAM. I don't leave one because it's a medical expense, the way I see it. Dunno how she interprets that.

It's weird. I feel like I'm being mothered during the SPAM. The first time especially. She gave me water while I had needles in me and it dribbled down my chin, and she had to wipe my chin.. It was funny.

I didn't tell her what was going on with my job, initially, and I was so anxious about what was going on with my job that I was starting to creep the fuck out of the people at the spa where she does the acupuncture... So I shared my story and she appreciated that .. But it was pretty bad.. I was a nervous wreck from all of the bullying my company has been putting me through... I had been pretty nasty and standoffish, actually.

I would actually like to post the story behind what's going on with my work...

The SPAM do actually help with stress and pain. So far I haven't made any moves at all .. just been sticking to my story about needing the SPAM, because I know she has a BF. She hasn't mentioned him, though she has told me about her other friends and family.

Still, we have good conversations. She tells me personal things about how her past and her plans for the future. We talk about biology and medicine somewhat. She is thoughtful and tries to give me good advice about my work situation.

Ultimately, though, it's just a patient-provider relationship; it's a transaction. I'm not sure if I cross her mind much between sessions. And I operate based on that assumption. I specifically say things, like "it's so great to have a medical provider who is supportive in a situation like this" and so on... I try not to let on but I feel like there's something there....

So... I don't want to become too invested in this. I am happy just to be trying something new. It is actually not a bad deal at all, considering how knowledgable she is and how much work she has put into learning Chinese medicine... I don't care if nothing comes of it, romantically.. It would be really awesome if something did, though
I liked it better the way you phrased it the first time I feel really dumb for not learning this sooner...

So this is what I want to do.

1.) get her to comment on her boyfriend without letting her know that I've been checking up on her on Facebook, or that I know she has one.

2.) escalate in a way that i can still get acupuncture if i fail in my attempts, because i may need it for a while. (my guess is she'll take my business, regardless)

3.) plant seeds to get her to leave said boyfriend (he may be stable, with a job, but he sure as hell doesn't look very smart from his FB page... just a lot of junk about pickup trucks, 9/11, country music, etc, etc...) I may be crazy, out of a job, and loaded up on psych meds but i think i can still offer her more, intellectually.

How do I do it?!

This is what I'd do. I'm new to this so bear with me.
1 quit facebook stalking. It's stalking and your invested in her way to much. Trust me I did this with my ex.

2 Ask her out to coffee or something. If she refuses and brings up her boyfriend I would act like I didn't know. And then just try to continue on my way And move on to different and more women.

3 just because he's into pickups, 9/11, and coutry music doesn't make him an idiot. I don't know what he's posting but he could just be really patriotic or a crazy conspiracy theorist. If he's more confident and more alpha then you, he'll keep her happy and you won't be able to change that. Only if you were a good or master pua could you pull this off. If she complains about him use the straw man theory. It's on this forum somewhere.

1) Yeah. Okay.. I don't follow their feeds. I was checking relationship status. I read multiple womenz mag articles from women who say they won't date men who don't have a Facebook account because WOMEN routinely check MEN's facebook accounts for relationship status. So, I figure if I read it in a women's article then all is fair in love and war! But, since you warned me, I will be sure not to visit these pages any further.

2) I don't drink coffee but this seems to be a common date idea. I better get used to coffee shops and find one that has fresh juice or something. Just in case she says yes.

3) Maybe not. Trust me he's a little simple, but probably above average intelligence, and I can't comment on alpha because I don't know anything more. Like I said I don't follow his feeds but I'm making a generalization based on my intuition. Sometimes I am completely non-alpha, which makes it pretty easy for me to lose to just about any guy. I have books smarts but social stupidity.

While we're on the topic of what makes men attractive, can we be more specific than alpha? There's a whole group of characteristics.. protectiveness, ability to build trust, being comfortable in one's own skin, etc.. what's the latest on these? I've hacked these before I can do it again if you got more to read up on...? The thing is, behaving alpha and being alpha are two different things. Who says he ain't faking it? What I want is inner game. And I almost have it. I know my worth. I am in a shitty situation but I'll never be broke, and I can be a good guy if I try.... If you're interested in primate behavior, check out this video, with Robert Sapolsky. Really interesting. He concludes that in certain baboon tribes, the males capable of cooperation and least violent are the most evolutionarily successful, especially when there is a crisis. Here's some stuff about baboon politices: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYG0ZuTv5rs#t=9m45s And here's some stuff about cooperation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYG0ZuTv5rs#t=44m14s

For the time being, I better open up another lead, pronto, so I can get less invested in this one and also have an alternative in case she's not interested.

I also need new clothes.

Sound like a plan?

On the Facebook stalking I'm talking about checking it every day. Or every other day just to see what she's doing, especially if you two aren't "friends". If you're not doing that then it should be all good. I'm pretty sure every guy has checked on a woman's facebook to get a little info on her. Just when you get obsessed with doing it like I did is when you need to stop.

On the date it doesn't have to be coffee. Take her out to a park. Go bowling or play putt putt golf. Just something small where y'all can talk and you can show off a bit. If she likes coffee then I'd say go for it. If things go good you could go grab a drink later.

On being alpha I think it's better to become alpha instead of acting like an alpha. I'll post a couple of books that helped me, hopefully the admins don't yell at me! The two books that helped me was "Models attract women with honesty" by Mark Manson and "No more Mr. Nice guy" by Robert Glover. These books really don't focus much on getting women, just how to improve your life to be interesting and how to be more confident, dress good and how to have good posture. I'm sure you can go on these forums and find the same info though.
If you act alpha and get the girl and go back to being how you were then she'll leave you because you lost what you did to attract her in the first place. You have to change completely change who you are, it will not be an overnight deal.

But your plan sounds good. Getting new clothes that fit is a good Confident booster. Just be confident and speak slow and clear. <- easier said then done! But you can do it. Good luck.

Intellectual stuff is about number #25 on any attractive woman's list. And as you said, your politics differ from hers, so she probably agrees with him about 9/11 and turning the ME into a sea of glass.

You want this girl, you need to be focused like a laser on emotions. She should find you intriguing and sexy. This has very little to do with intellectual stuff. That's a matter for existing relationship. Beforehand, you focus almost exclusively on how you make her feel.
I think you're better off doing what already feels natural to you. Coffee dates are generally not a good idea. I'm all for coffee dates if you meet her in the day, and you do it right then. But I don't ask women out in the daytime in the future, unless I'm literally stuck doing so(such as, she works nights and is only available in the day).

The problem with coffee dates, is they are extremely friendly. They are very non-sexual by nature. They are also very short. So you go out on a short, non-sexual date and... what? She doesn't feel that sexual spark and excitement like she does on a night time date, where she's more dressed up, it's more intimate and sex is always on her mind. And so she decides it must be that you aren't very interesting and she should try someone else.

To me, coffee dates(or almost anything in the day time) are a last resort. Always try to get her out at night. Even late afternoon is fine, so long as the date will last until past dark(at least 9pm). The faster you sleep with her, the more likely you are to get with her. Having more dates that don't end in sex, is the path to having any attraction between you two expire.

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RSDTyler

Man... you are all twisted up...

Politics and religion and what you have in common and shit mean nothing when it comes to starting a sexual relationship. And that's what you're trying to do, correct? You are not going to get a woman's vagina wet trying to bring up conversations about politics and religion.

You claim you've got over a decade of rapport with this girl so it probably shouldn't be TOO hard to get her to hang out alone... but that's all you need. You and her. Alone in a room. And see what happens. There's gonna be some tension obviously... the question is... what are you going to do with it?

That's where I think the problem is... pardon me if I'm over stepping what you're asking for help with but you are posting on this forum looking for feed back and you say you're older so I believe you'll be able to take the criticism a little bit better...

Brace yourself...

Dude... You're a little bitch boy.

You are exactly the guy that my mom would have loved for me to turn out to be. And unfortunately, girls don't want to fuck that guy. They want to marry you when they get older. But they don't want to fuck you. You need to build up a little bit more of a "bad ass" side to your personality.

Otherwise... when you do get her alone... you're going to wind up talking about Obama and shit instead of caressing her ass while you penetrate her tight little pussy with your engorged cock. If you want to have a sexual relationship with a girl... You're going to have to man up, pull the trigger, and actually fucking do it.

Just get her alone and make it happen. Fuck her a few times and then worry about if she's "the one" ... after you go through another 50 to 100 girls.