I was wondering if I could get some opinions. There is debate amongst many as to how much pua techniques help. For example I think some 'dating coaches' promise students a world of hotties when in reality they will never be able to get hotties.

I have seen many on here say looks do not matter. Quite simply unequivocally they do. There is no debate about this. Girls are biologically designed to go after a man with high S&R value. Being physically fit and attractive is something that a girl is designed to do. It is innate.

If a male 6 thinks he can get a HB10, I think that would be impossible.

No matter how good your game is, I refuse to believe a male 6 could get HB10 with mastery I.e. 5 approaches 5 times you get the girl.

I do however think that with game an aspiring pua could comfortably obtain 2 points above them. So a male 6 could get a HB8 at best. That is my view.

Anyone else agree? I would love to live in a world where an average looking guy could get a world but I am a realist. I just don't think it's possible....

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I don't think you'll pull every 10 you see, but I've seen a lot of occasions where people pull WAAAAY out of their league. Hell, when I was at my worst (260 pounds) I still pulled one of the prettiest girls I ever met, who hangs out with the Bucs and at Maxim parties. Even after we broke up, she texted me months later missing me.

Looks are important, but they are far from everything. Also, girls have different opinions of what they like. Some girls are actually into kind of weird looking dude. Everyone is different.

With a bad attitude, you won't get the pretty girls. People can innately tell what someone else's perceived worth is. If you think you aren't worthy, you aren't.

I think most PUA stuff is bullshit, but it DOES help guys build confidence, get over their fear of women and improve their social skills. So, in that way, it's successful.

As far as promising you'll get every girl you meet, that is unreasonable. That isn't to say you can't pull a 10, but you can't expect to ALWAYS pull 10s.

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I used to think the same as you, then I out games a natural that I knew from school, who was better looking than me and like I said, a natural (he was prom king and his gf at the time was the hottest at the school). I bumped into him and another dude on a night out and they were talking with this 2 girls, both attractive, but one was outstandingly beautiful (turned out she was actually a model!) I sat down and out games both these good looking naturals and pulled the model, k-close and #-close (unfortunately my text game was weak so she flaked) but the point remained, me, an average looking guy with no money, no place of my own , no car, crap job etc, had pulled a model.

Is this gonna happen every time? No, of course not, it is impossible to attract EVERY girl, but it is certainly possible for an average guy (as you say, a 6 or under looks wise) to pull what you consider to be a 10. I've known some seriously ugly guys that have mad game and shack up with 10's quite regularly. Looks do matter, but not much, as long as you're well groomed, confident, have good body language, you can make yourself 'appear' to be more attractive.

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Game helps out fantastically. Are there some women who will judge you for your appearance if you don't look like you're straight out of GQ magazine? Yes, absolutely.

But a lot of times you can either get past that, or find an equally attractive girl who doesn't do that.

If you're 350 pounds (of fat) and dress like a slob, are you going to pull a perfect 10? Hell no, of course you aren't going to do that. Unless you're fantastically rich, you provide no value.

I'm short and not particularly muscular, and when I'm on my game, I have a pretty good selection of women. Honestly, my biggest opponent is myself with hotter women frequently, because I'll get in a mindset of, "holy shit, I can't believe I'm doing this!"

That being said, I've gotten several very hot women before, and I suspect if I returned to "burning it to the ground" every night like I used to, after everything I've learned since then, I'd do even better.

Once you realize that there is another hot girl in literally every other building, and you can approach her and fuck her, nothing stops you.

I think it's important to mention a difference in men and women in what they are attracted to. Most men think it is hard to see how an a not great looking guy can get a great looking girl because they are assuming looks are as important to women as they are to men. They aren't.

Evolutionarily speaking, the most important thing for a man to look for in a woman is looks, because that is the biggest determining factor in her ability to successfully reproduce. For women, the man's job is protection, and in a world with cultures and groups of people working together, the most important thing in being able to provide protection is not begin physically capable, it's having high status. A man who can command respect and order around other people provides the most security.

So, talking about an physically unattractive guy getting an attractive girl. Of course it's possible, and likely if the guy can show he has high status. Just like you would have sex with a pretty girl who has nothing going for her. The best looking guy in the world can talk to a girl, but if he's insecure, awkward, has no job, and nothing going for him, she won't give him the time of day.

Think about why a celebrity look-a-like isn't as attractive to a woman as the celebrity is. For a guy, who gives a shit, she's hot.

I think this is a bit extreme. I understand the survival and replication principle. I was likening it to normal life. No extremes. A male and a female with somewhat equal status in life in regards to social circle, career earning etc. in that instance I only believe you could theoretically only go up 2 points.

See what I mean?

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To address everyone in this post, I am not asking if an attractive woman will get with a man. I am asking you how much do you think the game helps.

A hideously deformed humanoid could not get a hb10 just because he knows the cube trick, routines etc.

How much did the game help you/have you seen? I would estimate it could bump you up a bit but not massively.

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Game helps immensely. It won't just, "bump you up a bit", if you have no game, and then you do have game, and you're relatively attractive, it will be an absolute game-changer.

You will go from barely being able to get laid, to knowing you can have a girl any day, anytime.

Game is more the, "ability to get with women who will find you sufficiently attractive". If you're a normal 20-something male, which most people on this forum are, that's going to be most women who are in their prime.

You should go ask 20 women what the three most important things in a guy are too her, very rarely will a woman say looks. Ask 20 men, almost all of them will bring up looks. “Game " is simply learning to give a women what she wants, without any game you will rarely get women.

Prospher (or however you spell it). The late great Ford said if he'd asked customers what they wanted they would of said a faster horse. What a girl says she wants and what she actually wants are two different things.

When you say massively can you equate this? In to your life. i.e. what did you get before the game regularly and what do you get now?

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