I have been friends with a girl for about 10 years and I've always liked her but for 8 of those 10 years I was in a LTR or out of the country.

Now I'm back and have been meeting up with this girl a few times, she's very flirty, always laughing at my jokes, touches me a lot, looks me in the eye etc.

When I stay at her house, we end up in the same bed. However whenever I try to make moves on her she says "nothing can happen" or "don't do that". We will be spooning or hugging but nothing else is allowed.

This is really misleading for me as I can't gauge if she's interested or not and don't really understand why she would lead me on so much only to knock me back. Or I've got the wrong end of the stick completely.

Am I not seducing her in the right way? There is kino and some flirty banter etc.

I know you're all going to say stuff like GFTOW and I have been getting with other women while this is going on. Whats more I am yet to meet a woman that I like as much as this girl but unfortunately she's causing mental fatigue.

What exactly are you doing when you "make moves"? Describe it in detail because that seems to be where the issue is.

So, we'll be spooning and I'll start rubbing her stomach. The first time around she was more receptive and reacted to being tickled and stuff. Then she said "nothing can happen" and I just stopped. Mainly cos I was drunk and also she's someone I've known for a long time and didn't want to make a bad situation.

The last time was very similar. However, I felt she was less into it. Although I was more sober. I kissed her on the back of her shoulder and she said, "don't do that" and then likened it to the actions of a guy we know who used to get off with a lot of women but she was saying it was creepy. Again at that point I just gave up. It wasn't really a playful "don't do that" it was more stern and I did feel like it had pissed her off.

I said something lame like, "So cuddling is all right, but no kissing!?". You don't need to rebuke me for this, i already know! and I think she just said, "yes, I like the cuddling."

I kinda think that the more I'm in this situation and the more times I fuck it up the less she will find me attractive so I'm reluctant to keep getting into this situation until I have the tools to deal with it! My mates are saying stuff like she's stringing you along, but they're not experts at all when it comes to women and I really feel like if I'm acting right then I can get this, I just have a mix of being too timid to push it because of our being friends situation.

I've never had this problem with other women, usually when we're in bed what I do to get sex works and that's that. Something is different here, I have always held this girl on a pedestal and I'm trying to get that out of my head, but maybe it hasn't gone yet. Could be the issue.

Did she clear her throat several times while you were rubbing her belly? Did her face flush red when you were cuddling her? Did she moan while you blew warm breaths in her ear?

Those are 3 nonverbal signs that cue me to aggressively escalate even when girls say, "Don't do that." Girls want you to show more dominance when they give off those nonverbal signs of arousal and yet they say the opposite of what they want to happen.

Think back. If you experienced those signs from her, you simply failed to calibrate your escalation.

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Here are my two essential rules on texting that will save you tons of time and money:

general-questions/topic137931.html

She has indicated that she enjoys the cuddling, so take that away from her after she tells you to stop. Roll over to your own side of the bed and don't touch her at all. Don't make it look like you're pouting or doing it to be a dick, just do it with the mindset that it is more comfortable to not be plastered to someone else's body. She will almost definitely be the one to pursue the cuddling at that point, which is when you can start making the moves again. Only this time, she was more or less asking for it by coming into YOUR space rather than you going into hers.

There were more escalation cues the first time around but the last time I felt she was a lot colder towards me. That makes me think that the lack of assertiveness the first time around has diminished the attraction.

I did stop cuddling after she stopped me from kissing her shoulder but she never made a move towards me. I truely think that this is a lost cause. Im just gonna get on with other things and if she gets in touch I'll arrange something. If not then fuck it.

I'm to confused as to whether she wants sex but is reluctant because she is my ex's friend or if, in fact, I have concocted this whole thing in my mind and she's just a naturally flirty friend. Part of me wants to put my cards on the table just to have an answer one way or another and everyone tells me thats what to do but I feel it is inherently a bad move.

Cheers for the advice guys. Legends

I don't know a lot of details, like how you act around her and others, backstory, etc., but this might kindle something (no guarantees):

-Start initiating less contact and seeing her less.
-Become busier with other people (esp. women), hobbies and things. Make sure she has a way of knowing about it without being overly direct. This is the principle at the core of GFTOW (it's also known as supply and demand).
-Act a little more unimpressed, confident, slightly self-absorbed and blase around her. You need to be somewhat of a mystery and a challenge and she needs to know that you don't need her and that she is on your turf, in your reality and you are screening her to see IF and when you'd like to have her sexually. Keep her off-balance.
-Try not to reciprocate (especially not in as an eager fashion) any flirty kino of the sort that has been typical of her to you thus far. i.e., if she always starts stroking your hair or playing with your hand, and then you reciprocate until you get to the cuddling/ "let's not go any further" roadblock that you mentioned, then you need to break that pattern. Some girls do this with friendzoned guys for the attention, for the high of knowing that you want them. It gets them high, and at the same time shows them you're not worth sleeping with, because you're not enough of a challenge. Confuse her by showing you don't need her affection, because you get it from elsewhere and you are self-satisfied regardless of whether she exists in your life or not. Jam her signals, and her radar will be off - then it'll be easier for to strike since you're the one in control while she's scrambling around on the ground trying to figure where you're coming in from - sort of like military aviation. She'll try to ramp things up then (to regain her power and get that high from showing herself that a guy likes her and seemingly would do anything to sleep with her), and you can reciprocate, but don't be too easy or eager as before. Remember, "two steps forward, one step back".
-Act like you could take her or leave her at any moment. You're friends, but you're not particularly attached to her, and you certainly don't get jealous if she mentions other guys or anything. Blow it off, act like she's reading the classified section from start to finish to you (you're bored and you don't particularly care) or even tease her about it to turn it around on her.


Most of all, just don't expect anything to come of it or her. If you have the opportunity, you will fuck her, if not, you will continue having a fun, fulfilling life and fuck other women that are probably ten times better in bed than she is.

Do it!

It's hard, but then again, the easy way is for the weak. Only good may come out of it. These are the possible outcomes:

A) She feels it too and you get to live happily ever after.

B) She LJBF's you and you move on, free of the shackles she is imposing on you.

This last outcome may even have a couple twists:

B-1) You lose interest and cut her off. She becomes intersted and comes to you.

B-2) She LJBF's you but starts to become more intersted because you had the balls and the honesty to tell her how you feel. Girls like that and it may even plant a seed on her mind making her see you on a new light, diferent from all those needy chodes who quietly accept whatever bits of meat she spoon feeds them instead of going for the steak.

B-3) You move on and gain a new true friend... and the chance to hit on her friends, pawn her and use her as a wing.

I did that more than once and never regreted my decision. The ones I regret are the ones I never had the balls to go all in. Dealing with rejection is easy. Thinking what could have happened if you had acted when you had the chance is the hard part.

I think I'll not make any attempt to see her for a while and then when we do eventually see each other I'll let her know that I like her explicitly. She already knows but I've never said anything.

I have definitely been scared of the rejection as I always thought something would happen between us and if I lay it all out there and get a "no" then that's the end. But the confusion of the last few times we have met is more irritating than getting a ljbf. or Lets just stay friends.

I think a bit of time is good here as I think that it kinda annoyed her a bit last time. I know she likes me on some level but just need to find out which.

Thanks for all the advice guys, this is a great community.

On that note, what's a good way to deliver the message that you really like someone. "XXX, I really like you!"? there has got to be something better than that.

OP, this is great advice....if you wanna guarantee she'll reject you.

"Sharing your true feelings" with a woman who knows you've had a crush on her for a long time, always stops you from escalating and that you haven't even fucked is the kiss of death. She'll immediately think of you as a wuss and not a challenge and give you what will amount to a "thanks but no thanks, omg I hope I didn't just crush his pathetic little heart" speech. And probably call you "sweetie".

Be a fun, slightly detached, cool guy who isn't needy. Remember, she is a sex object first and foremost. The primary feelings you wanna share with her are you getting your dick sucked by her lips. This cool, sexy vibe is one she'll feel emanating from you and LOVE. Women like sex a lot. More than guys. Don't forget that and stop worrying about "telling her how you feel". Just be a confident man who knows what he wants and isn't afraid to go after it and show that he has a life outside of her. You don't NEED her. This is your reality and you need to see whether she's worthy of a part in it.

I am experiencing this same situation with a girl who I have been friends with for 10+ years. The only difference is she has a boyfriend and I just had sex with her. It was really easy. Do not tell her how you feel, this is an automatic DLV! She already knows you are a male trying to get in her pants, and will claim she just wants to "be friends". What she is really trying to say is "I don't want you to look like you are trying so hard".

This is what I did.

I was in the friend zone, or at least thought I was. I hung out with her several times since I started seeing her around again and I was getting no where. We would cuddle, and I would get no where. So what changed? She has a boyfriend and still does that she cheated on with me. I waited for her to miss me. So it didn't take more than a week, and she finally asked me to hang out. So we did. I told her I wanted to have a good night since she stole me away from my friends. (I wasn't actually hanging out with anyone). This made her want to keep me around. We went to the store and she bought a case a beer. Nothing too big. Now here is where the kino started.

We go back to my place, and we start watching stupid youtube videos and just talking like we usually do, except for this time, I wasn't touching her at all. I wasn't squeezing her hand when she held mine, I was hugging her tight when she wanted to hug. I was showing her little to no affection. I noticed she started getting closer and closer. I kept slightly moving away. Finally she gets really close to my lips, like she wanted to kiss me. I pulled back, looked at her and continued listening to the music we were listening to. But as I pulled back, I put my hand on her back. After 30 seconds, she wanted it again. I pulled her in, we made started making out, then with proper kino escalation, we had sex.

She still hasn't told her boyfriend and this just happened 2 weeks ago. We never had sex prior to this. I hope this gave you a little insight. Remember, you are the prize, not her. She doesn't want to sleep with you because you are making it too obvious. Act like she is just a friend, and nothing more.

You're totally right, the first time we ended up in bed together I think she really wanted it but I didn't escalate properly. That night we were just out with mates and me and her were really hitting it off. Everyone who was there thought we were either had just got together or were going to get it together that night. But all I was doing then was chatting shit, and cracking jokes with her and my mates. Not really expecting anything. That's the way we've always been together.

The second time, I was expecting something to happen and I fucked the whole thing up really badly, was probably pretty needy in hindsight and I know I wasn't dominant enough about what we did with our evening. Me and her were supposed to go out for food but someone called round just before and I didn't insist that we went out. Major mistake there. I think if I'd played the evening better I would have built up more attraction and tension and probably have got the lay that night. Instead just ended up blue balled being lame and not getting what I wanted. Pissing her off/ disappointing her in the process.

I basically would have had her in isolation, having fun and a few drinks. Instead because one of her house mates friends called round we just stayed in and had a few drinks/ takeaway. We still had a lot of fun, but it could have been a much higher energy night had I put my foot down and insisted we go out.

Live and learn though.

I'm actually moving to the same city she lives in in around a month, so I'll no doubt see her then. In the meantime, see what I can get hold of this weekend, my house mate has been looking real nice of late and now I'm moving out I can actually do something about it.

Just straight up tell her you want to be more than friends. If she doesn't, move on.

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Advice for those in a relationship

Date someone else.

There are probably 5 solutions I'd advise to any man and this is one I know is tailor-made for you.

Nothing will piss her off more than knowing you're seeing someone else. Even if all you're doing is getting drinks with another girl. Make her work for it, goddamn it!

I mean, really: is she that hot to put you through the motions like that? Be honest with yourself.

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