I can tell you how I do it (though I haven't been much active in last more then a few years. It's only when I'm in really good mood).

I almost always look for the eye contact first... Then from her reaction I decide what to do. Though I realise I lose many girls like this, before even talking to them, because many girls are shy (at least when they don't know you yet) and look away quickly, so I don't react.
But sometimes they lock, and I say "hi" or whatever. When I'm not in the mood, I just make a gesture with my eyebrows, like saying "hi".

I remember one situation, I saw her, walking towards me, I'm walking too. She was all dressed up, short, tight, black dress, black stockings, high heels (yes, in the middle of the day), about 18 years old (that's how I like them), having a rose in her hands. Me 35 (as far as I remember, but I always have to mention that I look much younger, though I never hide my age, especially because I enjoy the tension of the age difference ). From a distance I look at her eyes, she looks at me (probably wondering why I'm looking at her like that), so when I got close to her, I asked: "Is that for me?" (the flower). I don't remember what we talked about, but she was friendly, and after maybe 15-20 minutes of nice talk, our ways separated, without a number or anything. But a nice experience.

Another is, a girl (about 18, of course), me over 30, she buys some credit for her mobile phone, for two numbers, I just ask, out of blue: "which one is your number, the 1st or the 2nd?" She smiles, says nothing. When she was leaving I said I was sorry about that, because she seemed like just being a kid. But later I see her in a cafe with her girl friend, spend some time with them and get their facebook (never contacted them).

Once I saw a Czech girl, with a nice tattoo. I even wasn't sure if she spoke English, but I said "nice tattoo". She just looked at me so I said it again... Then she replied something, and we spend much time together, next few days. She was even jealous, she sent her friend for her 17 years old sister, who was playing badminton with me, just to interrupt us. It was in 2011.

And so on, and so on. I see you repeated a same line in a period of a few hours - I believe I have never done it, during more than 20 years. (This I tell you as an advice).

_________________
At elske Een er for lidt; at elske Alle er Overfladiskhed; at kjende sig selv og elske saa mange som muligt [...] det er Nydelse, det er at leve.
Søren Aabye Kierkegaard

Yep, exactly.

_________________
I know my place. It's me on top of the world.

My in depth texting & dating guide.
There's no such thing as shit-tests.
How to keep a girl.

It's anything but "indirect" if the guy is doing it properly. When you get into actual conversations with them without the intention of being their bff, they know very well what's up. What you start with doesn't matter in the least. Something like this is just fine:
You banter for a bit and then exchange some personal background about each other and get her # if there's chemistry. I encourage you to try a variety of ways to find out what works best for you. There is no reason to not talk to a woman any time, any where. She's there, you're there, she's cute, go talk to her.

Yes, but for those who learn, I'd like to emphasize that I said it again. First she looked at me like WTF? (that was really suddenly, and I was coming to her from aback - this is generally bad, but this was a normal situation, on the beach, with a lot of people around, and she was with her friend, and I was few steps from her, to her right side, so couldn't be a threat). She had that confused "WTF" look, but I wasn't saying anything wrong, so I wanted her to hear it clearly and I said it again and it turns out that she speaks English, and that in fact didn't hear me well the first time I said it.

SO be "normal" and don't get scared.
Just keep trying and think less, I'm sure you will succeed. You look like a nice personality, and one of the best things a man can do for himself is to know and admit his weaknesses and flaws, which you do.
But it seems that you think to much, which excludes your emotions. You're being too technical... I'm 100% sure she felt awkward when you did that. You "knew" (thought in fact) that you should move things forward.
The point IS, you should FEEL that it's normal to touch her like that. Then she will feel the same (unless you're totally socially unaware person). When you're completely comfortable with each other, THEN you touch her, and then it's almost (hahaha) normal.

Calibrating???
Don't calibrate people. If someone is sad, you don't have to calibrate him/her to see it. If someone is not smiling or laughing at the moment of your approach, than don't be like "whoah, what's up! ". If someone's laughing, don't approach with a serious face and say "what's up?". Everyone should know this, this is not seduction, this is being "normal".

And when you say you're being rejected 96% of the time, I think that by now, you should be able to feel in advance how your approach will be. When you walk to her with an idea about what to say, I think you should FEEL by now how she will respond to it. So if it's a bad feeling, don't do it.
I think you are too playful (you're 30) but I can't say it for sure, I don't know you.
Personally, I like this one, and many others, but since you're not able to continue, than this is not you. You can't keep that energy flowing. I couldn't do it myself, so I don't do it.

When I was a teenager and in my twenties, I never wanted to think about what to say, for me it was like self-humiliating a bit. I just threw myself forward and what happens-happens. And I think it was never bad. Today I create or look for a situation where it's totally natural to say something. I see two French girls, and a little balloon (or something alike) not far from them, and I just ask "is this yours?" They say "no". "You're coming from France?" ... and I start the conversation. I'm not playful here (you should see for yourself what's best for you) so she can't reject me, I'm not hitting on her, I'm just curious about her and her girl friend. This time we ran out of topics very quickly (5 minutes or so), it HAPPENS, and I just left. The point is I DO NOT think about it at all and forget it in a few minutes. I'll have another chance.

You should really re-read your entire topic from time to time, there's some really good opinion and advice there. This is your topic for your help, so do it, we (humans) easily forget things.

Oh, one more thing that could be helpful... When two people are comfortable with each other, and especially if she likes you, you DO NOT HAVE TO TALK ALL THE TIME, even if you just met each other. These periods of silence are a normal thing.
Knowing this might help you to relax a bit, and the topics will come by themselves. Maybe (but just maybe) it's a little bit awkward, but it wan't ruin anything, if she likes you. I'm telling you the firsthand experience.

Don't think too much.

_________________
At elske Een er for lidt; at elske Alle er Overfladiskhed; at kjende sig selv og elske saa mange som muligt [...] det er Nydelse, det er at leve.
Søren Aabye Kierkegaard

thanks for taking the time to post iggz80.

I haven't got time to reply in full as im' off to play football, but I actually DO read this whole journal from time to time.

That's what leads me to this



Part of reading teh journal from scratch reminded me to tak on the advice from RC and choc tht I SHOULD be more playful and have fun.

But now you're saying not too? You mean because i'm too old?

I'm not have a go at you, but this has been my problem since day one - everyone giving me very different advice. You have no idea how frustrating it can be, lol.

For now, i'm just ignoring th eguys on seddit (redit seductino sub) and the other pua forum I visit, and am just sticking to choc and RC, and so I don't think I should stop be playful intil theu tell me too

Don't worry. I do understand. This happens because all of us speak from our personal perspective.
But later I say: To me, it seems like you're "playing in a wrong movie". You should do a major reset and forget all "tehcnics and tactics" and just do what feels right.
And read thoroughly my post when you get time, I said a lot above.

_________________
At elske Een er for lidt; at elske Alle er Overfladiskhed; at kjende sig selv og elske saa mange som muligt [...] det er Nydelse, det er at leve.
Søren Aabye Kierkegaard

He's 30, not 75. Besides, look at Heywood. He's not exactly the serious kind and I don't think he has any struggles with women.

_________________
I know my place. It's me on top of the world.

My in depth texting & dating guide.
There's no such thing as shit-tests.
How to keep a girl.

Those who are 75 are even crazier I would say.

OK, stupid joke, back on the subject:
I said everything above... I did not read all from the beginning, but I see he sometimes gets rejected the first second of his approach, that's because of being to playful when he should not be.
When you approach like being serious (OK, too strong word, just being normal), you can't get rejected, because you're just a person who passes by, you're not hitting on her. Then, when your conversation continues, you can "uncover" yourself more and be playful, if that's you. Being playful from the first second I can't see otherwise but being unintelligent (at least socially).

Sure there are situations where it might work, I don't know, but I speak in general, for him to be able to better his chances.

Of course, I've seen people who attack from the first second, almost, or even, insult immediately (not talking about seduction, but about social skills in general and dealing with people), but I see them as a low class (I really mean it) because I can see through it, and they have no chance to talk to me at all in real life (for that they should develop themselves more, which is too late in this age).

I saw this post. general-questions/serious-funny-type-yo ... 05423.html OK, replace "goofy" with "playfull".
And then: The point is, he is in a totally wrong state of mind. He's trying n trying, and he can keep trying until eternity, if he doesn't change his perception of the whole thing. He should relax.
And stop thinking too much. Haha, of course, I know.
I'm almost 37 (in a month). And I can make people, including my girlfriend, have tears in their eyes out of laugh. And even more, I think I tell jokes all the time (in a serious fashion, with serious facial expression, but those who know me, they understand), every sentence, or at least, every paragraph (in spoken language, of course) I believe contains a joke, or some sort of funny things. That's how I am.

A few days ago, I was feeding (cat food) a gedhehog that I see regularly where I go for recreation (maybe irrelevant but I want to say), and it bit me (mistaken my finger for food). I go like "fuck... this and that" and everything. As I recorded it, I published it on facebook. It's being funny, or goofy, BUT it's only for those who know me, my fb friends.
But I'll never be a joker, when she (or anyone else) first sees me. It's only for those who are close to me.

There is a young guy here, whose video I liked (imagine you're a goat ), and he is all wild and crazy, BUT THAT'S WHO HE IS. And as far as I remember, he is also being serious/normal when approaching.

And I repeat... "excludes"->"shuts down"

_________________
At elske Een er for lidt; at elske Alle er Overfladiskhed; at kjende sig selv og elske saa mange som muligt [...] det er Nydelse, det er at leve.
Søren Aabye Kierkegaard

EVERYONE hasn't been giving you different advice. Several people have been on the same track, quite clearly, such as RC and OceanX, who have real quality advice.

Stick to the QUALITY advice, to the people who have proven themselves on the forum. You'll find that these people often speak with one clear voice and on a particular path, although there may be minor differences in the details. Feel free to question, but know that this advice is backed up by several years of successful experience.

The rest, take with several dashes of salt, and follow their advice only when everything else from the quality people on the forum has failed (an unlikely proposition)

Hi, choc

As I said before, that's what i'm doing now and don't intend to veer off track until mabybe next year

I'm only taking the advice of you/rc/ocean

(have fun with it, open to self amuse etc)

Made notes on my phone at the end of the night so I wouldn't foget any of the approachces, lol

1/
I order a cocktail and then accuse the girl on my left of being jealous of my fancy drink. She laughs and we banter a little. She's from Hungary which might explain the lack of negative attitude on her part. I make some jokey assumptions about what she does for a living. She's with a fat friend. I try to get the friend involved. We talk about Hungary. I tell them they look like they're wating for their tinder dates to show up. They laugh and then the better looking one tells me she's married. We chat a little longer and I bail.

2/
I open a very hot girl and tell her I like her headband thing. Probably a weak opener and not 'fun' as i'm trying to implement, but in the moment I couldn't think of an opener to amuse myself with. She was actually friendly. I told her she looked like she'd been to a festival and then she told me she works at a festival or something. She kind of cuts off her own sentence to order drinks from the barman and then a boat load of her friends bowl towards the bar and suddenly she's in a conversation with her girlfriends. I should have tried to carry on with her somehow as she was very pretty and not rude like i'm more used too.

3/
much more typical. 2 girls. 1 is making eye contact with my goodlooking friend and she kind of opens him. They talk. I try to open the other girl with fun and I smile and say ''Hi! I've missed you" (I thought it was amusing and i've heard tyler say it). She gives me that classic ''Who are you and why do you think yuo can talk to me'' look, lol. I'd usually eject straight away here, but I try to stick with it and i'm like ''Aww...are you OK? Feeling shy?''. And she says ''No. I just don't know who the fuck you are and yuo said you'd missed me''. i laugh and say I was just dicking around and some people would find it funny. She said ''I'm not most people''. Still angry. I say ''I can TELL!!!'' and smile, and this actually gives her a glimmer of a smile temporarily. At this point her friend grabs her and they move away and dance but i'm Not that bothered. She wasn't even really that hot and I just didn't feel taht it would be worth the EXTRAORDINARY effort it would have taken to talk with her

4/
Very pretty girl at a table with a mixed group of friends. I open with ''You! Why are you so pretty>!?'' and smile. Seh looks at me. She looks slightly afraid to be honest! She kind of backs up towards the guy behind her into his arms almost. I just try to calibrate and back off a little bit (not that I was ever in her personal space!) and am like ''I guess it must be a secret!''. She still hasn't said a word so I decide to bail. Then the guy kind of blocks my path and asks me what's up and tells me that he's her boyfriend. I tihnk he's trying too intimidate me and but it's not gonna work so he kind of flips the script after I laugh him off and he plays the friendly guy instead and gives me a condescending pat on the back for trying, lol.

5/
Girl is hanging up her leopard print jacket. I touch and say smile and say ''If this is real leopard print, we can't be friends'' I think it was funny, lol. She gives me the classic look of contempt and says ''Can you not talk to me''. Ouch.


There were also a couple of instance of bad AA which has angered me. More towards the end of the night when my confidence had been a hit a bit I think. Some very pretty girls out last night

Slightly different stlye FR to usual as it wasn't really an approach fest! Spent all night with a group of girls - just I failed to really attempt to escalate at all. I'm so used to getting shot down at the open that I felt a bit out of my depth when I wasn't shot down, lol and despite reading so much theory and stuff, I just wasn't really sure how to escalate.

I was out with 2 friends. One of them is like male model good looking which possibly affected me a bit.
We were at a table drinking, and there were 3 hot girls on the same table all talking with each other. One of the girls was GORGROUS by the way. We'll call tehm brunette, horse girl (the super hot one) and blonde.
We hadn't opened them yet and had just been talking amongst ourselves.
2 of the girls got up to go to the bathroom leaving blonde by herself. None of my friends would open her so I decided to 'man up'.

I said ''They've left you alone with us!'' She replied ''yeah, they must trust you!''. I said ''Yeah, they really shouldn't. We're blatant perverts. You're in trouble'' She started laughing and within seconds we were all chatting and laughing. Her friends came back from the bathroom and now it's like we're a big group of friends all chatting and laughing. We all gets shots in a stuff. I'm trying to remember to tease them etc - I'm trying to keeo it fun and light. We get some shit tests about our age but handle it well I think.
We all move on too another bar. The horse girl has been a bit glued to her phone all night. Apparently a new boyfriend she has.

The blonde girl tells me that I should make a move on the brunette friend. I dont know why she'd say that. Could this mean that her friend told her that she liked me or something? I have no idea.
The blonde gilr is obsessed with my super handsome friend even though he's not really said anything, lol. She is all over him, but he has a GF and doesn't tend to cheat anymore. This kind of threw me off because she was the one I seemed to get along best with maybe, but it's hard to escalate when you know she fancies your friend!

There's not a great more to add as at one point in the night they all dissappeared. Maybe the blonde one decided that since she couldn't get my friend they'd go elswhere.
I don't think I done anything like enogh in the way of escalation, though.
Wasn't really sure how to start without it being 'creepy'

I was also kind of torn between all of the girls and never really zoned in on one in particualr which was probably another mistake. I kind of fancied them all. THe girl with the boyfriend in particular! I spoke with them all and projected fun and teased them at every opportunity, but never escalated beyond that.

IN terms of escalation, I spoke with the brunette a fair bit and we spoke about dating and various shit and I tried to make it a bit flirty, and I touched her like on the arm to make points and stuff, but I just never felt as though I could escalate more without it seeming creepy and weird. I think I always need an unrealstic level of IOI's from the girl before I feel as though I can escalate which is obviously never really gonna happen so I need to fix that somehow and risk some very awkward kino rejections.

I don't think I made any statements of intent like telling any of them that they were hot.

So I fucked up, but to be honest it was kind of a confidence boost to have such a positive, long interaction rather than just getting told to go away 8 times, lol

I think the lesson is that I need to grow some balls in terms of escalation and risk coming off as a uncalibrated creep who 'miss-read' the signals. Maybe need to use statements of intent to kind of prepare her for more physical escalation so it seems less weird

Got laid last night.

She was attractive, but nowhere near my ideal age bracket! I like girls aged like 16-22 - she was nearly 40 and her kid was sleeping next door whilst I fukced her, lol.

She had a great body though and was fairly attractive. Just not really my 'type' since youth seems to turn me on in general

Polish. No much to write in terms of an FR. I approached her on the dance floor with some comment about the ridiculous dancing that i'd just been doing with my mates for self amusement purposes, and I was immediately physical and pulled her towards me.

We laughed and flirted. Memory is a bit hazy, but I think I ws much more VERBALLY direct than usual. I was telling her how hot she is, which is probably a technical mistake?

It went well, but shortly after she kind of moved away from me and danced with her friend (there was 2 of them)

She done it in what I felt was a mildy rude way? Almost mid sentence! I presumed it to be some sort ofa mild shit test to see if I would be like a needy puppy and follow her around.

I didn't. I just went back to the bar and laughed and joked with my mate.

About 20 minutes later, we made eye contact across the room. I think she might have actually winked at me, lol.

I beckoned her over. She beckoned me over. Mexican stand-off...who's gonna blink first?? Me! I buckled and went towards her and said ''How dare you make me come to you! You and I aren't gonna get along! bla bla bla''

She ate it up. I made sure to get her friend involved in the jokes since they were by themselves. In fact, I was basically flirting with her too as, despite the friend being a little chubby, she had a gorgeous face and eyes. I'mo a face man.

I think I might have even made a clumsy attempt at angling for a threesome, lol. Didn't work!

Anyway, went back to her house that she shares with her son, and banged her for an hour or so.

Was fun.

However, 2 things are on my mind.

1 / I was a pussy. I basically got lucky with this one. I wasn't approaching for shit most of the night, really. Weak sauce. AA has been quite overwhelming recently

2/Similarly, i've never done day game, but earlier when I was walking from this girls house, I saw a STUNNING girl walk past me. Just perfection. She was like my idea of a 10. I just could NOT bring myself to open her. Angry at myself. Almost put me in a bad mood now, lol - Kudos to the guys who do day game. I was paralysed.

Poor Son.

Well done.

thanks