hi guys

if you remember my last post i was unable to talk to any girl and still working on that.... I've a different situation now and would like your suggestions.

I met this taiwanese girl yesterday... not chinese ... when we were playing table tennis... yes not ping pong and we agreed on going dancing together...

so earlier tonight, we went to a salsa lesson and had some fun, we then had a take away while having a small talk on a bridge in glasgow... then we went to a pub and had couple of drinks...

when we were in the pub, i tried touching her and I did the palm reading trick ... she started playing with her hair a lot and crossed her legs with the cross facing me... so I thought yeah these look like a couple of IOI and then when we were talking I rubbed her back few times and played with her hair couple of times and she didn't complain.

when she was saying something and then said "i still want this relationship" then said sorry... " this friendship" so I smiled and said nothing....

after some time she crossed her legs the other side and I felt is that a change of mind or she's just tired of putting her legs this side... anyway... we left the pub and I walked her home.. we hugged and I wanted to kiss her but she went away so I kissed her on the cheek, said good night and left.....

during the conversation we talked about a lot of things from investing in stocks!!! to dancing, music, traditions in her country....

now the questions are:
what went wrong?
is she going to bed me maybe next time we meet? knowing that she's a bit shy
what to say and do next to ensure she is in my bed?

Now, I'm no expert on this: In these circumstances I usually decide to entertain myself by saying something like "Sweetheart, I've got enough friends". They never forget that and it really hurts their feelings. Don't do that if you are still looking to get laid. The problem, as I see it, is that that moment was a reversal where she had you chasing her instead of the other way around. You were the trophy, and she won you when you didn't speak up. I'd say you already blew it and it's time to move on. You sound like you're suffering from one-itis, so, do yourself a favor, and don't call her again. If you see her somewhere ignore her, let her see you with a better looking girl, then offer a greeting in passing and make her chase you and try to win you back.

For the future I'd say remember cat-string theory. If she backs off and goes cold, beat her at her own game. Shut yourself off to her, give her a little neg and make her realize that you are the prize in this situation, not her.

As far as what to say, I can't help you there. Like I said I'm not the authority on this. I'm good at recognizing when I made a mistake, but I still make them. I hope someone else can give you a good line, or correct me if I'm way off base.

Happy Hunting,
Pecos Mcleod

What is it that you find so wrong about a fun date? Sounds like you had a fun night to me. . .

Not sure why you're defining "getting laid" as the mark of a successful date. Now, I'm not saying you couldn't have fooled around with her. Based on what you wrote, it sounds like you MOST DEFINITELY could have gotten some play and you probably missed more cues than you realize. But you most definitely didn't ruin future opportunities with her. You had a fun night. She had a fun night. So you didn't pull the trigger on that particular night. Big deal. You went for the kiss. She knows it 100%. She LOVED IT.

You know what she's thinking now? "Oh my God, I think he was going to kiss me. Shiiiiit! Why did I turn my head! Now, maybe he doesn't even like me! He's so much fun. What can I do now? Maybe he won't even call me. I shouldn't have turned my head!" - And be sure, she's already called at least 2 of her best friends and told them every detail about her date. And each phone conversation took minimum of 2 hours. And they are all thinking, thinking, thinking. Girls love this shit.

DO NOT IGNORE HER. DO NOT TRY TO MAKE HER FEEL JEALOUS. Give her a day or two and call her and tell her that you had a great time.

2 possible responses:

1. She'll agree with you and you two will enjoy a great chat. Then you'll invite her to another fun night where you should be packing a few condoms.

Or

2. She'll give you the "Let's take it slow" or "Let's just be friends" speech. In this case, STAND YOUR FUCKING GROUND. Don't let her female hysterics fueled by girly advice from her friends shake you up. (A girl doesn't go out with you and then continue on to all those locations if she is not into you. She doesn't let you touch her and respond favorably if she is not into you. Listen, SHE IS INTO YOU. Understand this no matter what she says.)

So you say, "Cool . . . that sounds right. Hey, we had a great time, so let's just let it roll the way we see fit. So that _______ seems like a fun place. Let's check it out this weekend."

You're in . . . All you do is repeat everything you did on your first date. Compliment her looks but keep it fun like, "Wow . . . you look great tonight. Oops, that's right . . . take it slow, take it slow. Walk slow, talk slow. Hey, I was thinking we should check out the _____ movie next week." Just keep that frame and demonstrate that you find her fun regardless of whether she offers her pussy or not. . . Talk about other things you can do together in the future. But as the night goes along, get closer, closer, and closer. Move the conversation to sexual topics. Then you dance. . .

By the way, when you go for the kiss, grab her freaking chin with your hand so that you take her way her "instinctive shy girl turn". You'll feel her try to turn ONLY FOR A SPLIT SECOND. This is what a GOOD GIRL is supposed to do. She is supposed to resist these "bad things". But Once she feels that she's LOCKED IN, it is her who will stick her tongue down your throat. (Hey, you started it. Right?)

Also . . . it's interesting you make the distinction between Chinese and Taiwanese. Let me tell you something. Taiwanese girls are some of the most sexually liberated girls on the planet. It's just when they're out of Taiwan and they're dealing with non-Taiwanese guys, they feel they need to play an act. Let her play the act. . . you just play yours . . .

Sounds like it went really well but some things to think about......A. I think you should have done a simple hand on the knee test instead of rubbing her back....If she pulls away and gives resistance simply neg turn your attention away from her she gets your attention do it again. Easy quick and works. If your not willing to put yourself out there don't go on the date to begin with

It was a bullshit test.
Plan of attack: Go and take a few more Salsa lessons on your own and learn some more. Then just go dancing and lead her completely. Its the beauty of salsa...The Man Leads every move and even if she doesn't know whats going on, she can still follow.

Good thing with dancing (when you know more) is this. You DHV and she involuntarily DLV.
Win Win for you. I suggest at some point where during the dancing (where she is excited and confused thus much more suggestable) grab her and kiss her!

thanks guys ... you all rock!

I am not suffering from one-itis mate ... i'm suffering from f**k-itis or the lack of it I have my week split to go sarging almost every day anywhere ...even in the street. not saying that I'm any good or having the guts all the time but hey... it is all about practice and i'm intending to get a lot of it.

kasabi ... your analysis is fantastic... love it man... and yes i do make a distinction because if i didn't i would be talking to her and saying hey in china ..blah blah blah...which means i f**ked it up ... plus it is unfair for those lovely taiwanese girls because they are a lot more beautiful than chinese.... no offense to chinese girls though....

RounderUSA...I do know salsa ... I've been dancing for almost a year but I went with her as she is a beginner and it is a good way of meeting confused girls as you say ... lol ... regarding the bullshit test... i guess i had that in the conversation over the phone the day before.... she said "can I bring my friend with me" and I was ... hell no, bring 101 more friends... it is supposed to be fun.... and guess what... she turned up alone! .. don't know if i gave the right answer or not but it seems to have worked....showing her that i'm only interested in the dance made her trying to drag my attention... is that right????

so what I take from you guys as a learning is that I need to look into:
1. hand-knee test instead of back rub
2. what DHV and DLV means and how to use it specially that I'm good at salsa and meet lots of girls there so could use it many times....
3. know some negs....
4. Make sure I fucking grab her chin when kissing....
5. keep in my mind that I am always the prize....

EDIT: Kasabi... forgot to say that I have already lined up couple more things to do, she said she would enjoy watching a football game with me (although I'm not a football fan) and she would enjoy going to a race track with me whether I'm racing or just spectating ....... hehe ..... so will arrange the low cost one first ... lol ...just being cheap ... a football match wouldn't cost anything ... if you guys have a further comment on this one please say so

DHV is Demonstration of Higher Value ( i.e. You're good at dancing )
DLV is Demonstration of Lower Value ( i.e. She has no clue what she's doing and feels a bit incompetent)

Or you can give Rumba a shot and spin her into your arms and just go for it! You are already in charge...just take more control.

I find dancing the most effective way to reel any girl. Its just simply fantastic.

1. The hand to the knee is pretty natural. Keep the conversation going and motion for her to come closer as if you're going to whisper in her ear. One hand goes next to your mouth as you whisper. The other hand goes right on the knee.

2. No need to even bother with this stuff. keep it simple. You've got a good thing rolling already.

3. Negs are generally cultural specific so be mindful of your target and situation. The "neg" example that semohemo wrote isn't a neg at all but rather a sappy "push" move generally used by chicks, wussy guys, and babies when they don't get their candy. Don't be a sappy wuss. Be a fun guy. A neg would be more like: (When she chatters away about her investment strategy, you'd tell her, "Wow, that's really cool . . . wait a sec . . . you're a total financial snob . . ." You're complimenting her smarts while keeping her "show off" stuff in check at the same time.

4. Yes.

5. This is the type of BS those nutty coaches scream at socially inept men with balls the size of peas. You don't have this problem. Just have fun.

** By the way, she's not going to bed with you. YOU ARE TAKING her to bed. Big, big difference. You don't ask her or talk about it. From the time you say "hello" when you meet next time through the time you're rolling on your condom, keep charging her up with fun, excitement, and sexual energy so that no-sex at the end of the night is an impossibility.

Hi guys ... thanks again for the awesome help... .I guess tomorrow I have a big night and hopefully will end up as I want hehe
here is what happened:
I was not intending on calling her today but...I called her at 10pm as I was at a social party for international students and she showed interest the day before that she would like to go to something like that...(the benefit of actually listening to what she said!) so i gave her a ring, she didn't pickup so immediately i sent her a text saying.. hey was just calling you because you wanted to attend an international party and i'm there with many friends if you want to get to know more people...blah blah blah... so after 15 min. i got a call back from her which i missed because of the loud music. anyway i went out and called her... she said she is studying tonight ..blah blah blah but tomorrow she has her SPAM birthday party and she invited me to go.... so i asked shall i bring wine or something with me.. she said no ... just come yourself don't bring anything... we have got everything planned.

I bet that I will be the only non-asian guy in that party (big-challenge as my knowledge of chinese language is as good as my experience walking on the moon!!)! she seems like she wants to introduce me or "show off" to her friends. anyway, that point taken, there will be room to know more people hopefully more asian girls but hey .. i want to stay focused on the target for the night but pick-up some numbers too .

EDIT: yes, i want to stay focused but i don't want to become a boyfriend of hers if she is showing me off to her friends ..... what say guys??

Being the non Asian guy there, I suggest being Humble and just ask questions about their culture, customs, traditions. Try and search something on the net, and then when you're in that conversation, say it and end the fact that you know with, "is that true?"

yes dude that's what I did... I've just came back ... had a fantastic night but again nothing to warm my bed and give me a bit of workout....!!! Plus I think I fucked it up trying to kiss her friend!! but seems like her friend is extremely interested!!

I went there, they were very very welcoming... one guy told me forget about the birthday girl you are our VIP tonight .... they prepared good food and there were lots of hot asian girls.... and there were 2 asian guys and one black dude...

I took a chance where all the asians together and asked them about culture and why they mostly feel shy talking to other people and it is hard to break into asian groups... blah blah .. and asked for what they see... night went really well. i gave everyone a treat teaching them a bit of salsa and all were so happy i was there. in short, i felt i was the center of conversation that I have not been like that before.

anyway, we went to a club and were dancing ...and I was dancing with the target and she would grind.....I play with her hair, with hair face... no complaints but no guts to kiss!!!

anyway... after sometime everyone went to grab a drink or use the loo so I ended up with an asian HB9 or even an HB10 and she started coming close to me. she dance and grind and she seemed she wanted it... so i locked our bodies and danced with her... then played with her hair while we are dancing...for quite sometime, no complaints...so looked in her eyes she put them down... I came close to her face... seemed like I will kiss her... then I just kissed her on the cheek ... next time I tried to kiss her she turned her face to get the kiss on the cheek and said no... in a very faint voice... again no guts to grab her fucken chin and kiss her... so anyway, when the target came back ...we danced for sometime then i asked her that we should take the next drink at my place... the answer was maybe... I could not reply to that!!! any suggestions??

anyway, i ignored both girls during the rest of the night as there were so many hot asians in the group... so wanted to sample the good stuff. later when we were leaving the HB9 insured that she kisses me on the cheek twice and hug me really hard... but the others were just ok..... the problem is as you can see there are two targets now and I don't know the 2nd target phone number