Hi all , I have question on a basic social interaction.
HOw is it considered if you are going out with a single women on a normal day.
Is it a date ? Or do we need to declare verbally as a "date towards a realation" inorder to touch them ?

The origin of question is here.
Like last weekend I was out with a single colleague... we went swimming.... restaurant...... everything was smooth
did some kino.. and that evening. when I try to hold her hand...
She said that She is on casual day out.

So is it not perceived as date if you invite one of your aquintance to hangaround for a day?

This actually bothers me. help me out..

You didn't build up enough attraction and comfort with her for her to feel like it qualified as a date. If you had, she would have held your hand and not thought twice about if it was a date or not. It's okay, shit happens. Just continue to study and you'll see what you did and where you went wrong. By the end of the date, you should have to eager to hold your hand, so you really don't need to make an awkward move to hold it. It should be natural and welcomed, developed earlier with other forms of kino.

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I agree with meth. If there was any question in either of your minds about whether it was a date, you need to work on attracting and kino.

This isn't over, just do a little damage control and ask her out again.

To directly answer your question: yes, it's normal to hang out with a female friend alone, but the physical/verbal interaction is completely unlike that of a date.

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Thanks guys. then as you said I will go for some damage control and game again. !

Please. I hate it when guys treat dating like it's a game! Guys, stop doing these steps and acting like there's a handbook!! You don't know what the girl was thinking. Maybe she just wanted to hang out. Maybe she was never attracted to you! You could have just asked her if she considered it a date. What's wrong with being straightforward instead of guessing all the time? I think this forum may be in serious need of some females. This whole pick up artist thing makes me sick!

You have to realize that this is our problem with overanalyzing every situation that we come across. That's the downfall of being a PUA (in my mind).

Yes, some people just need common sense when it comes to girls and relationships, but maybe they were never taught or had enough experience, so they come here for advice.

It's all good.

No offense hun, but many of us have done the whole straight forward and "nice guy" approaches for years. It's easy to say that they work from your perspective, but many of us have watched girls that we were interested run to guys that treat them like dirt -- and these guys have certain things in common (they're confident, outgoing, indifferent, social, etc...).

You may think that being *extremely* educated (you may call me Dr. if you like), responsible, dependable, generous, honest, family-oriented and successful are enough, but you wouldn't believe how many times guys like that get stepped on. It's really the behavior of women that dictates PUA techniques.

How about answering a few specific questions, from a PUA-hater's perspective:

What's wrong with something that helps guys deal with the awkwardness involved with meeting women?

What is the harm in a story, phrase or routine that gets a laugh out of strangers?

What are some proactive things that a painfully shy guy with LOTS going for him (education, job, family, plans for the future, etc...) do to attract the girl of his dreams?

And finally...

What conclusion would you draw from women consistently going home and sleeping with confident, socially-powerful, outgoing, indifferent men, instead of the smart, successful, sincere, honest guys?

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im not going to get into this too much - but i agree - some women in this forum would be good. a womens point of view can be interesting for discussion....

but it is important to realise there are many people on this forum who have never had a fuck, never had a kiss, never had a gf, and never even held hands....

we need to be there for them all and teach and learn from each other... and the best way for this is to 'break down' their FR and discuss possible actions to improve on so they dont make the same mistake with another women. Women can be VERY judgemental on an individuals actions and can be easily diswayded (dont even know if this is a word...).

We try to incourage congruency for the situation and the girl, but when a person doesnt even have enough confidence to walk up to a stranger and say "hi" - some kind of stable process is needed..... It is like learning just about anything (driving a car, learning triginometry, baking a cake etc...) there are steps that need to be adhered to when first learning - but after time you can learn to skip stages and apply your own personalised touches to the steps....



dont forget the primary objective for a PUA should be self-improvement in ALL facets of their lives. not to become man-whores!!

Honestly speaking, I posted this message to know about the dating culture or routine. I am from whole different culture. I am clueless.. it made me fail with nice girls but they are never going to give me a second chance. are they?

I totaly agree with mech. I dont want to be thrown out of relation again just because I didnt know how to be a bad ass in public and the other guy does it.

And for me becominig a PUA is to shorten the failure cycle and get into long term relation at the earlist possible. if we were born casanova we might not have been spendinig time here.

I'm new at this whole thing, but I do understand one thing. It is a game. It would be wonderful if I could just telepathically communicate I'm a nice guy and I'll treat you well, even if I'm not a millionaire.
But we can't do that instantly, we have to break it down into phases.

Already I can understand the principle in the failure here. Not enough time building comfort and attraction as someone already said. And that's always been the AFC problem, moving too fast and too awkwardly. These techniques teach us to slow down, take your time, engage your target. There's no need to rush because you're fantastic in who you are and it's not necessary for anyone to validate that.

Note that doesn't mean you wait around forever either, just that there is nothing wrong in being methodical when displaying your intentions towards a woman.

But Hugs...It is, but just because it is a game doesn't make any less important. Life is a game. There are winners and there are losers. IN fact:
This is a game but the rules are extremely complicated and we don't know them. AND it isn't just for amusement, it is for our lineage and our lifelong happiness. (Seriously, think about it, can you be happy alone forever? I think not.)
Of course there isn't a handbook or we wouldn't be HERE.
You damn right HE didn't know, that is why he posted on here. Maybe we could tell him or maybe we could tell him examples to look for next time that would be clues as to her interest or non-interest. If he knew them, Maybe he would have already known.
Because when you ask you are giving up frame. You are allowing her to set the bar on what this is. And you might be thinking. What is wrong with the woman setting the standard? Nothing as long as she does it Without prompting as just what she wants, but if a guy has to ask her then he is telling her that He doesn't know what he is doing. And lemmie tell you something, women don't like a guy who doesn't know what he is doing.
Yes, this forum needs more females... but it needs females who understand that this way of doing things DOES work. And they need to know that it has Probably worked on them!
Then you say "No..no..no.. not you, never. Your way more intelligent than all those other girls."
Then I say "The more intelligent you are, the better it works because the smart ones... they think about it. They reason through it and notice all these things. And it has a greater effect because of it."

So.. your choices here are.
1."Your an idiot and just thought those guys were dicks" (I don't believe this.)

2."Your as smart as I think you are and you have been gamed"

3."Your sheltered to the point that people haven't tried it on you yet."

Those are the only three options I can think of. Oh except the "I got gamed and called him on it cause I had heard that shit before." You had heard it before? and before that? and before that? (Refer to 1 or 2)

My point is... Yes, we need more women on here. Their point of view is invaluable. BUT they need to have had the self realization that this works on "even them" and that they have come to grips that they actually want a man who Negs them from time to time and challenges them. Who doesn't just pick-up their trash for them and bring them cokes. She wants a Alpha Leader deep down inside.

Then she help all of us nice guys. Telling us how to do it without compromising who we are and what we stand for. Because there are alot of us who could go out there and trick a woman into bed. And we Don't like that! We don't want that! Cause if your gonna do that you might as well use a Rufie. We want to bring out the naturally attractive side and avoid all those "Shit tests" by helping each other out. We come here because we want to be the best Men that we can be.

Atleast, thats how I look at it.

EvoJ