Hey all, I've posted here a few months ago and don't actually have enough posts to post anywhere except the beginner areas, not so say that I'm even close to not being an AFC, but here goes. What's the protocol for newbies posting relatively long threads? What I'm dealing with involves gaming someone I fucked up with in the past, and dealing with someone that says they have a bf (but does shit like ditch them to come out with a guy they know likes them/liked them in the past). It does come to kind of a point, and any help you guys can give (in terms of what to do with the actual situation, or even forum courtesy, etc.) will be much appreciated.

Yeah well this IS the newbie question area, and it sounds like you are a newbie, so I would think that you are okay to post a lengthy thread starter. The more information you give the more it will help. Although make sure you use the search feature first, and make sure you already have a basic understanding of the PU artistry, because otherwise you'll have little to no influence around here and the community will probably just fob you off.

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It is only in your failures that you have any chance of success

Yeah, I have posted relatively long first-post-threads before, and more or less took over one other person's thread (sorry guys), but it quickly turned into PMs/emails. I have read The Game (but who hasn't?), thought it had quite a lot of good points, and thought I'd check out the community a bit more.

I'm going to give as much information as possible, it's not horribly long, but if you bear with me and give some help, I'd be really grateful.

Anyway, this friend I was hanging out with a few months ago (it's a bit weird there, feel free to ask for details) and I recently got back into contact with each other (I initiated the texting, she invited me out to dinner with some of her friends), I invited her out on Saturday to come out with my friends. She's been seeing someone for a few months, and she blew off plans they'd made a month ago so she could come out. Also, she's been saying for a while now that she's sure she wants to be single (I don't necessarily want a relationship either, but I don't want to just have sex).

So we're out and about on Saturday night, going to a few different bars with the group of friends she met when she arrived, and meeting up with a few more. We spent most of the night together, had drinks, tried to dance, a friend put me on the spot and said I was good at dancing, then I kinda got embarrassed and laughed it off, went outside for a smoke, that kind of thing. Everyone disappears, leaving the two of us, decided to go home. We shared a taxi, it was going to stop off at mine then go to hers

This is where things get a bit heavy; the cab pulls up at my place, I ask her to leave the cab so we can talk. Gave her a hug, said that I liked hanging out with her, she said the same, then I kissed her. Just a little peck to gauge reaction. She didn't pull back, but I felt pretty bad about it, and said something like how I'd fucked things up with us. She dropped that she has a boyfriend, which I already knew. Anyway, I went in for a few more, last one a little more passionate, and she suggested we should talk about it later, when the meter wasn't running.

Haven't really spoken since then, did send a text asking what she thought about what happened, and got a reply a fair while later, almost a day, saying that she 'can't tell me anything positive about what happened' and she doesn't know what I expect her to do, as she has a boyfriend. I suggested we talk about it, haven't heard back, but I can understand if she's confused, or thinks I'm a scumbag for what I did.

Anyway guys, hopefully this isn't too bad to read, if you need any more info on what happened recently or in the past, I'm happy to oblige. Thanks for any help you guys can offer - really badly need help here!

it's hard to analyze because i'd have to see her body language after you said "i fucked things up" or whatever. i'd also want to know what kinda ioi's you were getting from her all night. if you were getting lots of ioi's then she obviously doesn't respect her boyfriend, and it's only a matter of time if you do things right. if she wasn't giving ioi's then you probably have a strong LJBF thing starting here. you can recover from this, but it's gonna take time. perhaps if you escalated kino properly throughout the interation, you might have gotten a warmer response when you kissed her.

i don't think what you did was all that bad. if you wanted to guage her when you kissed her you shoulda said something more along the lines of "you know what, we shouldn't".

did she bring up the boyfriend a lot during the interaction, or just after you said what you said?

Body language at that time was a bit hard to gauge, we were in a pretty close embrace for a good minute or two, and like I said, she didn't pull away. She asked me how I fucked it up (sorry for omitting that, really wanted to avoid an even huger wall of text, dropping little bits like that help in editing).

I felt we were getting along pretty well all night, like I'd go somewhere and she'd follow, though that was most likely because she came out alone, didn't really know my friends, that sort of thing. Honestly, the bigger IOIs, in my mind at least, were the usual stuff like her re initiating the conversation, or hell, even the fact that we were planning to meet up after she finished a function through work; she actually didn't go to it, and when I called her up she was at home, and so she went out of her way and drove into the city to come meet us.

Body language throughout the night was decent, I think, when we were alone she wasn't closed off or anything like that. We talked for a lot of the night, can't remember specifics, but she was pretty open. Discussed work, family, that kind of thing.

Touching etc. was okay, I touched her on the shoulder when we were about to leave the second bar we were at, and there was a bit of body touching (she bumped her ass into mine more than once when we danced - does this count at all?).

Other than all this, all I can say was that she knew that I was interested in her, and yet she came out anyway. She did opt to not stay at my place, though I really didn't want to get and F-close that night anyway, more just testing the waters. I've heard it said that when someone asks for advice, 9/10 they already know the answer and are too stubborn to accept it, so the more honest you guys are, the quicker I can get to resolving this.

EDIT: She didn't really bring the bf up until just as she was about to leave, and then when she replied to a txt I sent asking how she felt about it, her reply was 'cant tell you anything positive about what happened. dont know what you expect me to do, i have a bf.' So yeah, not exactly positive in my book.

Right there was good she was like "wow"

Now let's take a look at how you opened your big mouth and blew it you went from champ to chump there, you appologized you confirmed you werent' the man she thought you were it was all a mere botch of and accident.... her dreams of a real man crushed in and instant which lead to:

sorry to the tell you this at the point the passion was one sided your side.
Now you're just groveling to her You've completely forgotten what it was that got you that first kiss. Your inner AFC is taking over and she can see it
man that was a terrible read it was like witnessing the rise and fall of Rome. but I see some potential here you here' what you do is Stop texting this girl asking "what she's going to do" REMEMBER girls don't want to be responsible for whats happening in that situation you got to lead her to believe everything thats happening is your fault not hers

Good Luck

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Yeah, you're pretty much right. Like I know I have confidence issues, wonder how anyone could see anything in me, that kind of thing. I honestly don't think I've got a single thing going for me.
So I basically did fuck it up. FUCK!
Thanks for being honest, I really should've mentioned that bit straight up. This is really pathetic for asking, but is there any way to recover? I'm not holding much hope, pretty much planning to just wallow for a little bit.

Is there any way I can somehow undergo a miraculous change and stop being such a shitty feeling, worthless AFC? I just don't know what to do.

Well the first step is admiting you have some problems
check out the "have no fear" link in my signature read the article it links too about public speaking. http://xrl.us/onn4c
You can turn you situation around dont ask about what she thinks of the situation anymore she doesn't have an answer.

just invite her over which leads to my next post Oneshot http://xrl.us/onn4g

its in your hands now

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Friendzone 1-vt51424.html?postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Ok guys, you've been an awesome help so far, and this is the last I'm going to post on this matter, but if I'm going to call up, what's the best way to go about it? Leave it a few more days? As soon as possible? Wait it out and if I don't hear anything just forget about it?

Anyway, thanks again guys. You've been a great help.

first you're going to have to reverse the situation,

You've got to erase in her mind all those questions you asked about "what she thought about what happened." First You've got to call her shoot the breeze about something interesting about for a few mins talk to her like you normally would but whatever u do don't bring up what happened, if she does "say dont' worry there's plenty of time for that later" change subject (get her at ease).

scenario 1
Then while she's still on the phone you have to ASK her if she's busy right now if she say's "No I'm not doing anything" YOU TELL her hey out and about i need some food I'm swinging by your place its on the way. you go through a drive through window take her and food.. back to your place all the while acting normal like nothings happening...just 2 ppl hanging out right

now lets not forget she has a boyfriend he could be a possible excuse which so here is
scenario 2 same situation but this time she says "yeah I"m busy right".
YOU SAY "Ok i may need your help with something when are you free tomorrow" if she ask what say "well you've got a good sense of style----then quickly..... say "Hey my brother(or whatever relative) is calling long distance I'll call you later ok (hang up)

Now you're probaby thinking Scenerio 2 sounds odd why would you do that?? See the strategy here is to set it up so you win, and if she said she's busy you'd have another chance and you leave her with a sense of mystery as to what you need her help for and in the process your erasing the pressure from "what happened out of her mind."

I like to stay 3 steps ahead of everyone

you can call tonight or tomorrow it doesn't really matter

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Friendzone 1-vt51424.html?postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Hah. The hardest bit's going to be getting her on the phone.

Couple of hitches in scenario 1, I don't own a car a the moment (yeah, that's pretty sad, but I'm a poor college kid), but tonight's Wednesday, the night we normally used to hang out in a group, but I'm hanging out with someone else this week, so I'll see if we can't arrange something else. More likely it'll be scenario 2 (even though we've hung out a ton of times and I've never seen the other guy).