So yea peeps, I've been lurking around the forums for a bit now. I guess before I get to the actual stickin points an intro would be appropriate in order to provide u guys with as much info as possible. Thanks in advance

I'm a 21 year old Engineering student and I learned about pickup from Style's book The Game, only a couple months back, tho truth be told me and some friends already had a vague idea prior to encountering the community. So if the purchase of that book counts as my official induction into The Game, I'd say I've been in it since May 2009, when I came across it at the bookstore.

Before I got the book my "method", if u can call it that, was mostly an unpolished form of natural and direct game. I usually start with a situational opener and then took it from there. I don't shower compliments and went with a very rough style of CnF (too little F sometimes I think). I believe my pre-pickup body language is already good but not perfect; people tell me I either "walked like a model" or, when I'm a bit in a rush, that I "look like I'm gonna kill someone". As soon as a pickup starts tho I think I tend to display AFC BL like leaning in and bending down. I'm 183cm (bout 6' 1"?) which is pretty tall around here where most guys are below 170cm. I also prefer to dress slightly out of the local trend (don't like bein part of a herd much). These two together I think would qualify as my Peacocking. For value and inner game I usually look to my knowledge of a lot of stuff (I'm a bit of a nerd; I enjoy reading Wikipedia Very Happy), enthusiasm in learning new things, strong set of personal philosophies, breadth of social contacts and my relatively-higher level dedication to self-improvement. These things have kept my inner game fairly strong over the years, though the last one has also made me always feel inadequate: to always improve means admitting that you're never quite there yet. This bit here I believe has always been a cause for concern coz I think it's taken quite a bit outta my confidence levels :S. So far I've always relied on pumpin myself up physically and pushing the endorphin levels up to fuel the natural flow of conversation; when I can't do this I usually crash n burn. I've also noticed that I tend to do well with women who I'm not obviously attracted to initially; the moment I think they're hot I go Auto-AFC. This has worked to my advantage several times when the chick DOES turn out to be hot but again, the moment I think that it usually goes boom. Self-control and inner game definitely could use some work.

After reading The Game I've also followed through with Rules Of The Game, Mystery Method, Influence and The Art Of Seduction, as well as the numerous resources available online. I've used the Cube, the 5-Questions Game and other mental tricks I picked up to satisfactory effect, tho if there's a wager involved I usually stick with a Meal. That's prolly a DLV since I'm tricking her into a lunch/dinner date, tho I try to be playful n non-pushy with it. Right now, I'd say that my main areas of interests are the social dynamics aspects of MM, more CnF stuff, NLP to rouse emotion in targets, advanced Body Language, and overall better inner game to complement my more direct style. Either that or a Degree in Self Control so I can actually muster enough patience to work under the radar.

I've got a good range of passions, I think :

1. I've founded, ran, and played in the first college Flag Football team in this country. We have a small league goin round these parts, FYI.

2. I like to read. Novels, skillbooks, and random stuff on the net. I guess that's why I tend to write far more than is sometimes necessary. Succinctness is something I may need.

3. Martial Arts. I've got a black belt in TaeKwon-Do and I'm currently trying out other styles too. I've also ran a few underground fight tournaments in our college Smile.

4. Socializing. I'd say (and been told) that I'm one of the few local guys around here who can mix and mingle with people from a diverse set of ethnicities, nationalities, age and education levels.

5. Strength Training. I used to be an overweight but since I've started hitting the gym n doin cardio I've lost quite a bit. That I guess complements my height well enough, as well as uncovering my looks that some girls have said are quite good. This also ties directly to my Martial Arts and Flag Football hobbies Smile.

My reasons for entering the game, I think, are the same as most people here. I just love women, and I want to make a conscious effort to improve my methods of interaction with em. In the short term I just want to stop thinkin "I wish I can get her" whenever I see a HB walkin by; I wanna be the guy who actually does get her. In the long term I'd say that I'm lookin for a life partner (eventually). I'm a romantic at heart; I'm not sure if this is AFC or not tho. In any case I'm not in a hurry to get there; I'm only 21 Very Happy.

My sticking points so far are :

1. Approaching. I don't go to clubs or lounges or bars much, so I'd say I'm mostly a Day Game guy. My extensive social network at college has made it really easy for me to get to get in contact with most girls, but when this isn't the case, or when I'm at the mall, say, I'm pretty dumb. I don't feel AA much physically but I tend to just linger and procrastinate until my brain rationalizes my fear and I kick myself in the ass. I've been doin online sarging on Facebook n Myspace tho the success rate has been low. And I'm almost hopeless in approaching anything bigger than a 1-set, especially with guys around. I'm also bad at AMOGing, tho most guys here are usually intimidated enough by my presence to be easily won over and not become obstacles.

2. Kino. In cases where I DO manage to isolate/get a date/whatever and subsequently kino-escalate, I tend to screw it up in Kino. It's not like I can't touch her; heck I do it a lot. But I THINK it's not as smooth or natural as it should be. My inner game also usually goes out the window at this point since I'm now accutely aware of how hot she is and when faced with ASD resistance I tend to become desperate n try-hard. In two cases where I think a KC wasn't as smooth as it should've been, the subsequent make-out didn't lead anywhere; after getting turned on she would put up resistance and end up terminating the session. These two girls have since then stopped contact with me, so I believe there's something in the Kino there to be addressed. I am currently at this stage with another girl, a HB8.5 on my scale, and I decided not to push too hard for a KC. We've fooled around and cuddled in public places, and I've gotten to kiss her face and neck (not her to me tho. Might be coz she has a BF) but I'm not sure how to proceed to a KC without it happening like the previous 2.

3. SOIs. After learning game I've noticed that I no longer used SOIs much. Whatever eloquence I have is spent on negs and fluff and CnF stuff; never in stating my interest in the other girl. I do that using Kino escalation. I've dismissed SOIs as a part of my AFC past; tho recently I've been thinking that I may have been wrong. Style's method includes "forming an Emotional connection", and I've come to think that without SOIs I'm not doing anything to "melt" her, so to speak. Thus, coupled with whatever inadequacies of my Attraction Phase, I've came to the conclusion that I might need to review my policy on SOIs, especially in the Comfort Phase.

In a (big-ass) nutshell, this is me. I congratulate u if u've actually read all this. Please give whatever constructive comments wherever possible. I look forward to learning from u guys Smile.

It sounds to me like your game is actually really good considering you only started a few months ago. If I was you, I'd continue to go out and have fun - learn from your mistakes and think about what you did well and why it worked.

Do you have a wing? You maybe could use the benefit of someone to go into the field with you and give you feedback. Also, a wing might be able to take you to some night time venues.

As far as the kino thing goes - you have to remember that women have just as much heterosexual sex as men do. Many women out there want sex more than men do and simply can't find men who have the balls to ask for it. It sounds to me like you are not assuming attraction from the girl and it is making you uncomfortable in sexual situations.

If a cute girl has taken time out of her day to hang out with you, then you have to assume it's on. She's into you; that's why she's hanging out with you.

You also write that you "fooled around and cuddled in public places". This may be contributing to the awkwardness. The girl knows you won't be having sex in public and unless you are the b/f or she is drunk, most girls aren't really into public displays of affection. You should be fooling around at your apartment - where you can have sex. An easy way to get a girl to your apartment is have her come over for a movie.

Besides the kino thing your other sticking points aren't really sticking points.

You can use SOI's if you want. As a rule, if it feels to you like the right thing to say, then you should say it. And lastly, the amoging thing - you don't have to AMOG guys most of the time anyway. The only place it's really an issue is at bars and nightclubs, but those aren't venues you go to.

And remember - you're not just her because you love women and want them - you want to become a better person, the man you want to be - and have adventures along the way, right?

I can relate to you dude. So believe me when I tell you - calm the fuck down already. Clear your mind. When you realise she's hot, also realise there are hundreds of other hot girls out there ready for you to screw up just like this one, so you better do something different now if you don't want to get stuck in a rut. Play it cool. Then you'll feel the rush of how cool it feels to have a hot girl around and playing it cool with her, especially when she starts giving more IOIs.

Basically the only way is to take the fear out of realising it's a beautiful girl. So anything you can do to take that fear out. Repeated exposure, continually talking to them but then breaking off conversation and trying another one another day, etc. go in with the mindset that the outcome doesn't matter.

And like me, you seemed to have realised you have a hell of a lot going for you. And it seems you have explained just how cool you are in great detail here just to check if we agree that is all cool stuff - no, never do that. You know it's cool - and I know you know because you went to all that detail. So stop wondering if you are cool and get used to the fact that you are, and if you are absorbed in this stuff (and not bragging about it, but delivering the info indirectly in conversation) girls will really dig all this stuff.

So to sum up - you have a hell of a lot going for you, you're cool, and stop worrying around pretty girls because that only goes one way - backwards. If you don't worry, you may go forwards, or you may go backwards. But if you worry, you WILL go backwards, so there's just no point no matter what the outcome is. Stop worrying about it.


Because basically - worst case, you don't get her number, she leaves, and maybe you'll never see her again. But if you do something desperate like push hard to get her number when it would be awkward, instead of doing what you know looks confident, it's not worth it - you will kill any remote chance in the future. If you don't go AFC at the last minute, then 6 months down the track you may randomly run into her again and something might start up - it happens. Plus the way you behave affects the way you think, so you got to be cool and confident no matter what. Well you can aim for it - don't kick yourself if you mess up, that's a downwards spiral too. As long as you're doing your best and learning as you go.

Very interesting story and I hope I will be able to provide some pointers.
Like the other guys told you I believe your inner game to be your major sticking point, however, I know that frame is very hard to get out of without exercises.

Your inner game all goes back to your neuro-cortex in the frontal place of your head.
We have a lot of receptors up there who catch in memories and store it connected with a feeling. What usually happens when your inner game is at a low-point is that the memories make up a "dark circle" which constantly tells you in a sub-communicated way that this will end bad due to prior events that occurred.

Now, how do you fix it?
The first thing to do is to realize it, which you have already done by telling us here. What I did some time ago was to tell all my friends about it, and never kept it a secret. This made it go natural for me and a topic that I could speak about unaffected.

Now, this is the hard point:
What you have to do in order to get out of that circle is to erase it. You will never get out of a low-point unless you try to. Now, here is what I did. Mystery had a video of him showing himself at a night club using swimming-goggles, it seemed like fun so I said to myself I should do it.

What I did was walking down the street wearing those goggles and talk with everyone I saw. At first it was a terrifying experience because I set all my inner game out on a test, though after a while I got used to it and really just stopped caring about the amount of critique I got. I managed to erase the memories from bad experiences as I basically overloaded the system, and could thereafter go out with absolutely no hesitation about how anyone would feel from my actions.



This is a kinda extreme example, but I had to do something like this to get over my social anxiety. However, I hope you get the point of how to clear up your mind to make room for better thoughts for your inner game and thus, it should also help with your kino-escalation which you said were your major sticking point.

- Exerio

Thanks guys~! Ur replies have been real informative. Some questions :

1. Is there a rule of thumb for SOIs? I mean, how do I differentiate an SOI that is alpha - that is, honest and not reaction-seeking - from an SOI that's just the desperate AFC's act to salvage a losing game?

2. I'm a college student living in a dorm room, and social conditions around here make it extremely unlikely for me to get a girl in. My only other home is my family's home, so the only places for escalation I can think of is in cars or her place; the former seems a bit immature, the latter somewhat unlikely too, since girls leave home even later than guys over here. This is negated somewhat by the fact that I usually game older women, but still~

3. Gurus of indirect game, as far as I know, seem to advocate not asking a girl for her number. So is asking for it a big DLV? I seem to have had success so far by DHVing and then, before parting, telling her in an (i hope) alpha way that it was interesting, communicating on a subtext that she met my standards of intelligence, and I'd love to keep in touch. Is this bad for solid game?

4. I don't have a wing, but this one guy I know seems like a likely candidate. I'll see if we can work at getting to parties and stuff

1) In my opinion a SOI is just to show interest. A major SOI you always do if you speak with someone. However, there is a few things you can say and some you shouldn't. A compliment for example should be about her reactions and not looks.

For example:

Decent: I like the fact that you are so giving (with a positive attitude.)
Bad: You are so damn hot.

You can also tease her a bit:

Decent: You are the funniest girl I've met.. in the last thirty seconds (Credit Mehow)
Bad: I like you... not! (this will usually get you a stupid look and leading to her ignoring you.)

2) A friend of mine who is a quite good natural have an extremely successfull rate of getting to the girls place. What he usually does is making her so turned on that she asks him to take him home. If you are not able to do that you can take her number for a D2 and make up an excuse for why you can't go home to your place. (my housemaid has quitted* Credit Mystery) And try to escalate to the point were she will invite you to her. That is the only solutions I can think of as I am not used to those situations;p

3) Yeah, it basically shows her that you need to validate yourself to her as well as showing neediness at a larger extent. And gives her the power of the situation. It is ok to ask for a kiss, but as for numbers and sex you should keep control of the frame.

4) Yeah, it is definitely good to have a wing at parties. If you know that this person won't try to dlv you. The benefits of a wing is that you can split up a set making interference less likely to happen.

- Exerio

Ok so I guess for #closes I should focus on solidifying my game and DHVing to the point where the girl would want to have my number, then presenting an opportunity for her to ask; textbook MM, yea?

So I was in this situation before : had a good conversation with a girl I met while shopping, then before we parted I just said "So yeah, this has been interesting. Any way we could resume this conversation some time?" and she went "We... could exchange numbers?" in a slightly hesitant way. I just went "Oh, ok" after that. I dunno bout u but it just seems to me like she kinda read the whole thing as a "Can I have ur number?" anyway. I mean, if she just goes "Oh well, I'll prolly see u around sometime" should I have done something, or just let it go as another lesson learned?

You should always try to pursue a #-close if you get one. If she doesn't talk to you, move on.

What you described in this example is probably her exact thought. You got a good input with telling DHV-stories, but don't just rely on those. Tease a bit and try to have a fun time, if she gives you IOI's you can say something like this:

- "I have to go now, but give me your number for future ___."

Just maintain the frame and ask her to give it to you. If you try to get her into saying it you will probably come out as a bit shy and that should never be your goal:)

- Exerio

From what I can tell (and it's only text so I could be misinterpreting something) I think your wording made her think "Is this guy shy? What's going on?" which made her speak funny. And you following up with "Oh ok" as if numbers are a surprise, is very obviously trying too hard to play it cool - of COURSE you swap numbers to keep in contact with someone!

"So yeah, this has been interesting. Any way we could resume this conversation some time?"

"Anyway" is redundant, dilly dallying around the point instead of knowing what you want.

"we could...?" is a question, it should be "We should...", a statement.

There's some things that are always good to practice, and wording your sentances to be direct and show you know what you want is a good one.


"So yeah, this has been interesting. Let's swap numbers, we should talk again!" (Exclamation mark = enthusiasm and happiness)